New Pledge

[Vladimir Lenin]

Do you think that we need a new pledge? Do you believe that pledges ought to even exist?

[rathelios]

What pledge?
I am not American but I'm guessing you mean the pledge of allegiance?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands: one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

As it happens, and not that it's any of my business as I don't live there, I think you should go back to the original pledge.

I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

because:
a) It sounds better
b) Non-religious people and non-monotheists can say it and mean it. The current one seems to require a particular religious affiliation.
It was only changed in 1954. It's not like it counts as a tradition or anything after a mere 53 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance

[removeduser_487563287433]

Certainly not. It is against the ideal of freedom.

[Roy Batty]

Certainly not. It is against the ideal of freedom.

You mean pledges or altering the current pledge?

As for my own opinion, I don't really see the need for children to make meaningless pledges at school every morning. We aren't living in medieval Europe, swearing oaths to feudal lords.

[removeduser_487563287433]

You mean pledges or altering the current pledge?

As for my own opinion, I don't really see the need for children to make meaningless pledges at school every morning. We aren't living in medieval Europe, swearing oaths to feudal lords.

Pledges. Forcing children to make oaths they cannot possibly comprehend is despicable.

[Sétanta]

Certainly not. It is against the ideal of freedom.

Artificial freedom by rebelling against everything you understand is slavery is not freedom.

That said, the Pledge is an important part of American culture. Pledging allegiance to the Flag, and through that the ideals of the Nation, rather than the government is important, and every child should do it.

[Rush Limbaugh]

That said, the Pledge is an important part of American culture. Pledging allegiance to the Flag, and through that the ideals of the Nation, rather than the government is important, and every child should do it.

We are only to pledge allegiance to that government only if it fufills its role of representing the Nation for which it stands. Again that means if it upholds the constitution.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Artificial freedom by rebelling against everything you understand is slavery is not freedom.

That said, the Pledge is an important part of American culture. Pledging allegiance to the Flag, and through that the ideals of the Nation, rather than the government is important, and every child should do it.

I have nothing to rebel against, it is not a British institution, we are sensible.

[Bokks]

"I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of my United States of America; and to the Republic, for which it stands, made of men, indivisible, for liberty and justice to all."

Then again that requires and older definition of things; the whole "made of men" would be likely to offend feminists...
Oh well, "you can satisfy some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can never satisfy all of the people all of the time."
Hey, that should be the motto that replaces "Under God" on money, too!


[edit] or we replace everything with good ol' "E Pluribus Unum", I could live with that!

[Mathius]

One nation under a groove
Gettin' down just for the funk of it

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

Children are brainwashed to serve the state

Stalin would be proud

[Rush Limbaugh]

Children are brainwashed to serve the state

Stalin would be proud

Yet when you tell people that the Dept of Education is Unconstitutional and thats the reason why they accuse you of not wanting to educate people.

[MaximiIian]

The pledge should not be mandatory.
If it is still allowed for usage, it should be changed to more universal wording.
Something like the one used before 1954.

[Captain Blackadder]

Yeah I would say go back to to the original one its much better and you are no longer fighting those godless heathens the commies I personaly would also remove the god stuff form you money too. Anyway I would recomend againest saying the pledge everyday it cheapens the meaning of it leave it for special occassions.

[MaximiIian]

Just to metaphorically twist peoples' nippies, I like to say "under the gods" when I say the pledge in the morning, if I even do.

Either that, or substitute it with a new one of my own:
"I Pledge Allegiance to the Flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and to the Monarchy for which it stands; Four Nations, under the Crown, for Liberty, Justice, and Freedom for All."
It bugs them so. Which makes me laugh my ass off.

[Bokks]

Just to metaphorically twist peoples' nippies, I like to say "under the gods" when I say the pledge in the morning, if I even do.

Either that, or substitute it with a new one of my own:
"I Pledge Allegiance to the Flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and to the Monarchy for which it stands; Four Nations, under the Crown, for Liberty, Justice, and Freedom for All."
It bugs them so. Which makes me laugh my ass off.

Do you live in Britain?
Where do you see the Union Jack to pledge to?

[MaximiIian]

Do you live in Britain?

No, I live in Kentucky. Have all my life, and hopefully always will.
It's in my signature, actually.

I don't often say that version of the pledge, BTW. I only did it a couple times last year mainly to annoy this one American nationalist in my class.

Usually, I abstain from saying the pledge at all.
This because I disagree with it on two major points: "Republic" and "under God".

Where do you see the Union Jack to pledge to?

You don't necessarily have to physically see the flag to pledge your support to it. It can be an image in one's mind, symbolic of the flag, which is in and of itself symbolic of the nation and ideals of the nation it represents.

[different_13]

Is it possible to be prosecuted for not saying the pledge?

If it is, hows is that any different from a dictatorship?


Btw, from that wiki-link:

The Pledge of Allegiance was written for the popular children's magazine Youth's Companion by Christian Socialist author and Baptist minister Francis Bellamy on September 7, 1892. The owners of Youth's Companion were selling flags to schools, and approached Bellamy to write the Pledge for their advertising campaign. It was marketed as a way to celebrate the 400th anniversary of Columbus arriving in the Americas and was first published on the following day.
Bellamy's original Pledge read as follows: I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, and was seen by some as a call for national unity and wholeness after the divisive Civil War. The pledge was supposed to be quick and to the point. Bellamy designed it to be stated in 15 seconds. He had initially also considered using the words equality and fraternity but decided they were too controversial since many people still opposed equal rights for women and blacks. Bellamy said that the purpose of the pledge was to teach obedience to the state as a virtue.

In 1940 the Supreme Court, in deciding the case of Minersville School District v. Gobitis, ruled that students in public schools could be compelled to recite the Pledge, even Jehovah's Witnesses like the Gobitases (whose name was misspelled as 'Gobitis' in the court case), who considered the flag salute to be idolatry. In the wake of this ruling, there was a rash of mob violence and intimidation against Jehovah's Witnesses. In 1943 the Supreme Court reversed its decision, ruling in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette that "compulsory unification of opinion" violated the First Amendment.

Interesting - so you're not actually legally required to recite it?

[Rush Limbaugh]

Interesting - so you're not actually legally required to recite it?

Of course not

[Tom Paine]

Do you think that we need a new pledge? Do you believe that pledges ought to even exist?

Given the nonapplicability of the first part to me as a nonAmerican, I'll just deal with the latter part.

In essence, no. A pledge is a form of political indoctrination, in the end; its a pointlessness that does not serve democratic - nor constitutional republican - ends in any way, since it does nothing for keeping a well-informed and politically active populace.