Requesting a more realistic Teutonic Campaign mod

**MrT** · October 02, 2007, 07:11 AM

Hi all,
I don't think I've ever posted on this forum before but I've been in here reading posts for quite a time. I haven't modded anything except changed some numbers here and there but thinks it sounds interesting. Anyway...

After playing the Teutonic campaign and then reading more about this chapter of history I must admit I am quite hooked. The teutonic campaign is definitley my favourite one but I think a more realistic version of it would be even better. The potential is great. Something like RTR is probably what I am suggesting(I'm a EB player but that is a huge project). I would like the campaign to start at an earlier date and several factions altered. Especially Teutonics and Lithuania. I also want Prussia and Sweden to be in there.

If anyone thinks this sounds the least interesting please let me know. I have quite a few ideas but want to know if anyone else is interested first.

**Fezzi** · October 06, 2007, 01:51 PM

sounds great i am not a great modder my self though.

But good luck

**Imperator of Rome** · October 08, 2007, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by MrT

Hi all,
I don't think I've ever posted on this forum before but I've been in here reading posts for quite a time. I haven't modded anything except changed some numbers here and there but thinks it sounds interesting. Anyway...

After playing the Teutonic campaign and then reading more about this chapter of history I must admit I am quite hooked. The teutonic campaign is definitley my favourite one but I think a more realistic version of it would be even better. The potential is great. Something like RTR is probably what I am suggesting(I'm a EB player but that is a huge project). I would like the campaign to start at an earlier date and several factions altered. Especially Teutonics and Lithuania. I also want Prussia and Sweden to be in there.

If anyone thinks this sounds the least interesting please let me know. I have quite a few ideas but want to know if anyone else is interested first.

Yea I agree,its kinda weird when the grandmaster's knights are armed with chainmail and no helm...while the spearmen are decked out with plate mail and great helms.Yea the teutonic campaign is the most interesting,and with some titles,units etc,it could be great.I read opsrey's battle of tannenberg.a year or two ago and I have limited knowledge of what happened over there but I'am interested.

**MrT** · October 10, 2007, 06:05 AM

I really would like to create a more realistic mod as I've mentioned but I need to learn some more modding skills first. I can program java and c quite good so I think I could learn but skinning would be a problem. Would probably need some help. I am currently playing the campaign with the real combat mod to get a real feel of what needs to be changed. I am also learning about the Order.

So as of now I'm still stuck what needs to be changed. The most important aspect I want to represent is the feel of the period. The most common form of warfare was raiding but both sieges and regular battles happened quite a lot. All sides were brutal but politics were still very important. CA, according to me, makes it sound like only the teutonics were brutal and evil but all sides were. The majority of the men killing the pagans were former pagans who joined sides with the crusaders to stop the ongoing raids from lithuania, prussia, etc. These combined with crusaders from different parts of europe made up the majority of the armies. Lithuania wasn't really united as a country either and it took great leaders to lead them all. Civil wars also happened between nobles competing for the leadership. Sometimes these joined sides with the christians to defeat their lithuanian adversary only to turn on the crusaders once their goals were achieved or maybe even before. Sometimes they joined sides with poland against a common adversary, the teutonics. What I am trying to say is that the way things work now really doesn't represent how it was. I do think this could be fixed though and that's what I am going to try to do. I've already thought of a bunch of ideas to help get this right but don't have the time to keep typing now.

Hope anyone gets interested. I need help with getting the history of the other factions correctly represented and modding help.

**Kiki52** · October 11, 2007, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by MrT

So as of now I'm still stuck what needs to be changed. The most important aspect I want to represent is the feel of the period. The most common form of warfare was raiding but both sieges and regular battles happened quite a lot. All sides were brutal but politics were still very important. CA, according to me, makes it sound like only the teutonics were brutal and evil but all sides were.

That is odd. I thought that CA was trying to make it seem like the Tutonic Knights are the good guys. However, to them though Lithuania isn't really bad but the Tutonic Knights are still good. However, the game portrays Russia as bad. See my thread about the sunbeams in the loading screens, you'll get the point.

Yes, I would like a more realistic Tutonic mod too. But realistic would also mean the Tutonic knights wouldn't be these uber powerful juggernauts (Dismounted Ritterbruder) against hordes of enemies. But then again every campaign would be better if it were more realistic.

I think one of the best things someone can do to help realism and portray the factions better is to improve Poland. Someone is doing that though, going to give Poland a massive makeover in the unit department.

**MrT** · October 11, 2007, 09:30 AM

Well the way I want is that all are bad guys.

I disagree about the ritterbrüder. They should be very powerful but in very small numbers. Most knights should but these were the knights who trained the most and were the most fearless. I am actually considering making the ritterbrüder the faction members and not making them recruitable at all. This would make sure their numbers are kept down. Of course they would still be with only one hitpoint but somewhat altered stats.

I agree with you on poland but I don't know enough to know what to do with them Please stick around and discuss with me Kiki52.

**Fezzi** · October 14, 2007, 09:25 PM

I got a suggestion (if there will be a mod): Duchy of Prussia should be a Union with HRE and the Teutonic Order, using the kalmar union script. I know the Duchy of Prussia was founded in the 15 century or something like that. But still i think it will be cool

**Point Blank** · October 11, 2007, 02:08 AM

Try the RealCombat Teutonic Campaign conversion:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=123351

**MrT** · October 11, 2007, 05:43 AM

"I really would like to create a more realistic mod as I've mentioned but I need to learn some more modding skills first. I can program java and c quite good so I think I could learn but skinning would be a problem. Would probably need some help. I am currently playing the campaign with the real combat mod to get a real feel of what needs to be changed. I am also learning about the Order. "

Good suggestion

**Emperor Domitianus** · October 17, 2007, 06:28 PM

It's not so easy to make it realistic.Of course you have books but no one of use lived that times. So it's fictional and is limited to be as realist as possible.

**Zzrow Graff** · October 19, 2007, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by Emperor Domitianus

It's not so easy to make it realistic.Of course you have books but no one of use lived that times. So it's fictional and is limited to be as realist as possible.

I know of two contemporary sources which may prove useful to modders. I own both and recommend them unreservedly. Also, each contains notes, citations, etc, referring to very many other books of interest. Get your library to inter-library-loan one to you if you don't wish to purchase them.

(1) The Chronicle of Henry of Livonia was written by a German (or Germanized Lett) priest and covers 1184-1227. It "focuses on the deeds and missionary activities of the Bishops of Livionia".Wikipedia has imo an excellent page. Amazon has a translation from the Latin available in several versions. I purchased the 'unknown binding' hardcover version b/c it was only $40. However, it has a 'soft' surface, and inventory tag removal damaged my copy slightly.

(2) The Livonian Rhymed Chronicle is thought to have been written by an anonymous Teutonic knight for entertainment/propagandizing during their communal mealtimes. It covers roughly 1180-1290, and "focuses on the finally successful military campaigns of the Order to bring to heel the Kurs and Semgallians from 1267 to 1290". See the Wikipedia web for more. It's not cheap: I got it at Amazon.

I am going to purchase these as soon as I can afford it: The chronicle of Novgorod, 1016-1471, Muscovy and the Mongols: Cross-Cultural Influences on the Steppe Frontier, and Lithuania Ascending: A Pagan Empire within East-Central Europe. Also, if anyone knows where to find English translations of Chronicon terrae Prussiae, or Johannes von Posilge's Chronicle of Prussia, please, please, let me know.

Cheers, Zzrow Graff