Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.6*

[GrandViZ]

Thank you very much for the detailed feedback and the improvement suggestions!

[uk_john]

Yeoman - as much as I know your post was at least 30 mins of typing, we need more posts like this. Not only are they informative, they make the threads better for visitors to come to as the thread are informative AND interesting!

[Snakesword]

Big improvement of the mod from the previous version great work . I used the ai package and added them to the retrofit mod to test it with the kingdoms improvements. By now its amazing , I just played 40 turns with sicily. Allied with papal states, milan, venice, HRE at start. When HRE declared war on venice I accepted to provide aid lost my alliance with venice but i did not attack them. Later on milan attacks france i send aid to milan, i attacked france by myself without any request from milan. I have taken out france taking marseille and toulouse while milan has dijon, rheims, paris. I killed louis when i took toulouse so there was no more family members for france so france died off. The thing that bugged me is that due to a crusade on france the HRE venice and milan joined me in crusade, but when france died off milan immediately attacked HRE right after. The AI seems to go into war too fast rather than trying to build up professional armies. Most of their armies are made of militia spearmen and couple of archers, I already have norman knights that give me the uppder hand at the moment. I think Milan attackd HRE so fast in order to take Bologna ? Their reputations are into the bad part like untrustworthy and dubious.. Why cant the AI try keep their reputation as reliable, they always into and out of war... every few turns...

[bb82]

a few questions before i get started with a knew and hopefully improved AI game ..

i noticed that units are back to an era system..

1)what are the eras/events that let me build better units and what are the dates that they are triggered at?..

2)what era/event lets me build armored swordsmen as England?..

3)is there a link or a place that i can look at that gives me a break down of what units i can build in each era?..

4)i like playing as each turn is 6 months.. can i do that slight change to the descr_strat file without any problems?..

[GrandViZ]

1) The availability of units is handled in the export_descr_buildings.txt, if a unit requires a certain historic event you'll find it there.

2) They will be available past turn 126 to 138.

3) The dates for historical events are described in the file descr_events.txt in the imperial_campaign folder.

4) You will have to play far more turns with basic units, most propably ending the game without high and late era units (might be quite boring). Experience shows that 450 turns are more than enough for a campaign.

[bb82]

i play slow, but with the eras and probably without the ears you are right, 450 is perfect..

1) in the event file where you can see the type of events: they have a number next to the event that is offset of the starting year.. for example if the event has 20 next to it, does that mean it is triggered 20 years or turns from 1080?.. you having it at 1 year a turn would make it the same, but i'm still curious..

thx 4 all your hard work..

[uk_john]

What I don't like in the Total War games is the fact that if you send an army into an allies territory just to attack someone else that you and that ally is at war with, that ally still ends up liking you a lot less! And yet, the AI seems to be able to send armies small or large anywhere it wants in your territory and you have to put up with it. This is whether they are neutral or ally. So with an amry outside 3 or 4 of your towns, you are supposed to put up with it - and until they attack YOU, you cannot do much about it, because if you attack them you get blamed!

I also don't like the Papacy AI. For example, Spain and I were both equal in the Pope's eyes and we both went on a crusade to Toulouse. My army got the first and we won the city, losing about half the army. The Spanish army still had it's crusade army nearby. Next turn, it used that army to siege Toulouse and ultimately take Toulouse from me! It then used it's Crusader troops to go after more of my cities/forts. When I attacked Spain I was told I was going to be excommunicated! So the Pope was more or less saying, 'Let Spain take over your Cities'!!! I went back to the Pope page and found me and Spain we equal in the Pope's affection with us!

So the way the AI is allowed to abuse is the opposite of what the player can do! I hope at some point we get a Total War where both sides have to respect borders and where player and AI have to get an agreement through Diplomacy to be able to do it without getting into bother! Something akin to what the games tell you when you attack an ally and the dire warnings they give you!!!

[GrandViZ]

Exactly, that is the way it works.

[bb82]

"The availability of units is handled in the export_descr_buildings.txt, if a unit requires a certain historic event you'll find it there."

1)lets say for example that i want to start with armored swordsmen.. what is it that would have to change?.. would all i have to do is go to export_descr_buildings.txt, find the barracks that makes them, find there name, and delete the historic event next to the name of that unit?.. then once i build that building i would be able to recruit them, without waiting for the event, correct?..

2)so is the offset number after the event mean years or turns?..

3)the settlement tax applies to all your cities throughout the whole game, correct?..

4)if i wanted to mod out the settlement tax, what would i need to delete and where is it located?..

thx again..

[Borluc]

To the above poster...

I just wanted to say that I think that the era system and the settlement tax are two very important parts of the mod in terms of challenge.

To anyone...

Personally, I think that UAI is the best mod for medieval II purely because it does everything it claims to do without breaking other parts of the game.

The only thing that I've seen bordering on a bug is Sicily sitting near Tunis with an army for so long without attacking (perhaps they will soon).

The campaign AI is just great without rampant war but with reasonable war depending on conditions ranging from the need for settlements to diplomacy or an easy kill.

The Byzantines are an early powerhouse, but the Muslim nations clearly are a threat of the future. The Turks in particular are very strong. I've never seen them do so well and its finally closer to the historic Turks I know. I think the Byzatines will get crushed in the middle (again pretty much what happened).

The Reconquista (sp) is raging in Spain. The HRE is acting up and France has gained much power.

Playing as the Danes, this is very challenging. I had to inch my way into power and scrap for every bit of it. However, I've managed not to compromise my morals too often and my Heir is close to full chivalry and command.

Diplomacy. Just great. I attack a faction that is beating on an unallied faction and my relations raise with the victim. GrandVis has managed to obtain good diplomacy without making the AI too eager to agree to bad deals.

Battle AI is good too, but i don't have time to go into it now.

Well...I just wanted to give my impressions. Thanks so much for this great mod. I'm happy I gave it a chance.

[GrandViZ]

Thank you very much for the flowers Borluc!

@brianbowser
1) That is the way to do it.
2) It reflects the ingame year.
3) Yes, but only to those of the human player.
4) It is located at the end of the file campaign_script.txt in the imperial_campaign folder.

[Borluc]

Ok, now that I'm coming up on round 50, I'd like to discuss a few perceived flaws that I've noticed. Denmark, VH/VH.

Sicily still seems to be intent on leaving a medium sized army near Tunis while not at war with the Moors. They've been there for at least 20 rounds.

The campaign seems artificially and steeply slanted towards the AI(bonus to their coffers, penalty for mine). While the AI definitely uses more intelligent decision making, I am constantly having to win hard military victories just to survive. My armies are like 1/6 the size of comparable nations because I go bankrupt if I try to properly defend myself. This had lead me to ignore my reputation and sack cities just for the much needed money. Of course, I think we all prefer a more level playing field with more intelligent AI. Maybe this is the only way though because the AI just can't be modded like that?

The Pope called a Crusade on France while the Muslims are going crazy gaining power. The Turks have taken Constantinople and are now bordering Kiev. The Pope doesn't seems intent on preserving Christendom. I have a full papal rating and yet I am being ravaged by the HRE and France without any help from anyone. Hell, Milan has even had the gall to sit an army in Hamburg and threaten me. I'm not sure if the Pope is telling them to leave me alone like he should, but it isn't working in the least. The pope is there to create a little unity among Catholics and yet it is non-existant.

(Btw Milan has few settlements yet they seem to be a super power over night. With several full stacks roaming around they are easily taking advantage of my war with HRE by taking their backdoor settlements. Normally I'd be happy with this good strategy, but it is over the top because of their massive armies and my artificial weakness.)

Battles are pretty good. Couple of problems maybe though. Enemy cavalry does flank and sometimes even recharges, but it could be a little more mobile. Generals tend to commit themselves to dangerous charges and often do not disengage to recharge.

Enemy missiles units tend to get too far ahead of their supporting army. I am able to take them out often with a quick cavalry charge. If the AI has no missiles, they will sit there and let me unload my missiles on them without any reaction but dying. It seems like the battle AI doesn't kick in until my melee tries to engage them. They seem idle until then.

Siege defense is somewhat poor in some areas. They defend the walls and reinforce weak spots, but sometimes I've seen the general just sit in the city center and let his forces at the gate die. This doesn't always happen though. I guess it would be better if they could somehow pack weak spots (open gate, tower/ladder entrances) with lots of troops. No other mod has fully achieved this though.

Anyway, I hope this side of the feedback helps too. I'll continue my Danish campaign even though its kinda frustrating to be outclassed militarily by pretty much every other faction. The challenge is fun but the means to achieve that part of it just doesn't seem right (money scripts were always a weak way to simulate AI imo).

[akagi28]

Is possible to fix the AI reinforcement. If the AI can wait until their reinforcements arrive before attacking, then i think i would lose 50% of the battles. The combine arms and attack from different sides would devastating.

[GrandViZ]

To reduce your problems keeping up with the AI you could disable the additional settlement tax in the file campaign_script.txt. It is located in the imperial_campaign folder.

Furthermore, I want to point out, that AI modding has no influence on individual decisions, it is rather concerned with the circumstances for the AI decisions. This is valid for the campaign AI as well as for the battle AI. The means are very limited sadly, as long as CA keeps its code secret.

Concerning AI missile units, I don't seem to have that problem. In my game they perfectly stay behind their own lines and attack from a save distance.

@akagi28
The reinforcement issue is hardcoded, and there is little I can do about it.

[symptom]

the read me file does not say much about "become a vassal" option. is it easier in this mod? and does having a vassal give any "real" advantages?

[Borluc]

Nah... I'll keep fighting the uphill battle to see if the AI can manage to finish me off. After taking Marsaille (sp), things have been improving. I'm going to reduce garrisons and form two armies to guard either end of my empire. HRE is being beaten down because they made too many enemies, although, like I said, I see Milan being a real pain the arse soon.

Have you even thought of making trade resources a little more valuable? Things like grain were very important especially to armies. Seems like some resources are just worthless. I know some modders reduced the number to raise the value.

I think its just pride that keeps CA from releasing the source stuff. You guys manage to make a buggy pos worth playing with only minor adjustments (comparatively) and you could probably damn near perfect the game if you could do more.

Ahh well, though I see the AI overextending itself quite often contrary to your experiences. I was thinking of getting SS 5.0 and trying it out as well (with your campaign AI). Are you going to try it out Grand Vis? I don't have the Kingdoms expansions and I'm not sure I want to buy it to try a mod I've never played.

Either way I'll continue my campaign and my analysis if it is welcome.

[Resurrection]

I would like to report three serious bugs, but probavly they are related to RC...

1) While sieging, my cavalry refuse to chase routers. AI had brought reinforcements and I routed one of its unit. Though I repeatedly ordered my general to chase them, then right before impact and actual capturing them, unit said "Orders completed my lord" and stopped.

2) While using multiple units with ladders on the same wall (one beside the other), units do not use all ladders. They simply place them to wall and then move to only one set of ladders thus stucking beneath the wall and extending the time to get up significantly.

3) While sieging, it is almost impossible to force your units get on the enemy walls apart from siege equipment. I captured the walls (noone was there) and yet none of my unit I ordered to got on the wall.

All three are for me game-breaking bugs and it is impossible to playe sieges with them. Hope there is some solution for this...

EDIT: I have tried RC with Lusted's battle AI and none of these issues are there. Also due to what RC does, it is not the case either, so I can confirm these as UBAI issues.

[GrandViZ]

@Ressurection

I have investigated the siege issues you describe and I was not able to reproduce any of them, although testing it several times with different units and siege setups.

Also I want to point out that I have not modified any of the settings, that interfere with the way units use siege engines or equipment.

[Borluc]

Atm I'm only using UAI and I have some of those problems as well.

When I have three siege ladders or towers or combination of them deployed in close proximity on the walls, sometimes one or two units will try to climb up the wrong tower. This can cause a halt in advance or split the unit in two(which causes obvious problems).

I think the problem with pursuing enemies in a siege comes from this. If just one little soldier split off for some reason, your units can't always effectively pursue them.

I do have a couple of fixes that work pretty well for this though. It requires a little bit of micro-management. First, if your units start to climb up the wrong ladder or tower, redirect them to the top of the wall just under the tower you want them to climb. This usually works at least half way well. Second, for pursuing units, set them to run to a point that intersects with the path of the largest part of the split enemy unit. when they are upon the enemy, stop them and they will attack.

On a side note, the Catholic AI continues to fight without reserve or direction from the Pope. This is ridiculous as they are destroying themselves while the Muslims stay united. You might look into Darth's diplomacy or something else. Military campaign is great, but the diplomacy is just non-existant. I have great relations with Portugal but they just up and attack me for no reason when they are already at war with France (definite routes to expansion).

I have one problem unrelated to UAI. I was sieging and there was a strong storm. My vid card usually handles my settings quite well, but with the storm (all that damn rain and the splatters when it hits the ground), I get pretty extreme lag. Is there a way to reduce the effects for the weather?

p.s. I might disable the additional tax scipt after all as its just frustration on VH/VH. I found the lines that I need to disable, but how do I do that? Should I just make the number 0 instead of -200?

Thanks.

[Resurrection]

I also tried it again and sometimes it works fine. Anyway I was at least able to fight my campaign siege finally... It turned to be big fun as I am on the crusade and my two crusading stacks killed thousands and thousands of egyptians!

Acre and Gaza fell and now while the land is cleansed of infidels I am sieging Jerusalem at last.

AI fielded pretty low-tech infantry armies though, but still after all those battles my army was reduced to mere one stack. I was really amazed. With such crappy armies they killed hundreds of my men...


And now something about completely different :-) Have you ever noticed how incredibly strong are generals? Not just bodyguards, but even generals as captains. I tried Border horses vs Varangian guards and after short while 11 guards remained and only my general. The guy killed all 11 of them and I won! It's even better with general's bodyguards. All bodyguards lie dead and hundreds of men sorround the last one - a general. But yet it takes bloody long and many lives to finally kill him. Such moments make me think of legendary heroes they surely must be!