Ultimate AI - Feedback and Discussion *UPDATE 1.6*

[GrandViZ]

Those brave Scots are meant to be an annoyance, aren't they? However, I have played countless test campaigns myself, and I never had the impression, that the money script is a game breaker.

[Eles]

I tested the mod about 50 turns. Ok, AI opponents have additional money. No problem. But AI towns and castles grow much faster than my own. After starting pressure, I prefer a period of peaceful gaming so I made everything for my towns growth without building any army units. And suddenly I realized that almost every village or small castle of my enemies changed into huge towns and fortresses with 8000+ people, while only the two best of my own towns have the same, but the rest especially all my 5 castles much less. This is quite annoying, they can build guilds, they produce a lot of army and I stay weak when want peace for a while. What file should I edit to reduce this AI growth bonus?

And the second thing. Its almost impossible to set a ceasefire after for example one stolen city. The enemy refuses every suggestion and gives me no counteroffer. Frustrated I tried to offer him 200,000 (cheated) for ceasefire and he refused too. That seems like a bug. In previous version of diplomacy wasnt that so impossible.

Except these moments I like your mod very much

[GrandViZ]

There is no special AI growth bonus, only the additional AI income. These can be adjusted in the file campaign_script.txt in the imperial_campaign folder.

In regard to ceasefire agreements, I don't have that issue, but you should be aware of the diplomacy bug (seems hardcoded), where the AI will reject any offer after the first offer was rejected. So wait one turn, and try again.

[GrandViZ]

Either the spy information is not displayed correctly, its accuracy might be influenced by the spy level, or there is indeed an additional hardcoded growth bonus. You could try a lesser difficulty setting and check if it gives different results.

[uk_john]

The Scots had one small town left and after 3 turns with that one town they had built 1.5 stacked armies - then I had a battle and won and ransomed the prisoners back for over 7800 - and they had the money to pay!!! So I think all this enemy city growth and my problems with the Scots is all about money!!!!

[Eles]

Yes, I m sorry for accusing your mod It only depends on difficulty settings. On medium the growth rate is ok. 2000 + 2percent = 2040 next turn. On hard and very hard population of AI increases faster than the game writes: 2000 + 2percent = 2080 and more...

[messenger42]

I would give myself a finite little extra money before I start a new game to balance out in this case to be fair.

[GrandViZ]

That explains it! Thanks for the research.

[akagi28]

Is it possible to add some invasion decisions for the rebels?
That way they could help keep the other factions busy too.

[GrandViZ]

Adding invasion decisions for rebels is not the problem, but the fact that rebels are always outnumbered, actually is. Military balance ratio or the frontline balance ratio checks for rebels are difficult to use, as there is only one rebel faction that is permanently at war with every other faction.

[TheFirstONeill]

what are the implications of setting the slave faction wiith an AI label of default rather than slave_faction?

thanks
Jason

[GrandViZ]

The fact, that the rebels are at war with every other faction, will make many rules from the default profile obsolete. The default profile also contains faction type checks regarding the slave faction, so this might lead to weired behavior, when the slaves try to fight themselves?

I experimented a lot with the rebel AI, but none of the attempts to make them more active, was successful. I will investigate further and see, if it is possible, to increase their activeness.

[Eles]

GrandViZ: You wrote about extra money for AI in your mod. And where could I edit it? I m not familiar with modding and even I have searched all descr files... no success. Thanks.

[TheFirstONeill]

[quote=GrandViZ;2257078]The fact, that the rebels are at war with every other faction, will make many rules from the default profile obsolete. The default profile also contains faction type checks regarding the slave faction, so this might lead to weired behavior, when the slaves try to fight themselves?
quote]

I have tested using the slave as a default ai setting. The slave field armies seem more active, actually crossing borders and making attacks against 'normal factions'

There has been no odd inter fighting between rebels.They seem to be more active in developing their settlements also.

I think the fact that the rebels are not set as a slave_faction means that they and other factions wont react to them as thought they are slaves, but as a legitimate faction


hope this helps
thanks
Jason

[GrandViZ]

I have tested using the slave as a default ai setting. The slave field armies seem more active, actually crossing borders and making attacks against 'normal factions'.

Then I will update the rebel profile, tweak out the useless faction specific parts and release it in the bugfix section.

Why cant the AI try keep their reputation as reliable, they always into and out of war.

I wanted to make the AI quite aggressive, if it has the superiority.

The AI seems to go into war too fast rather than trying to build up professional armies.

40 turns into the game not all factions have the capability to build large professional armies. Especially Milan lacks the capability, as it does not start with a castle - maybe I should change this. Play some more turns and you will see the shift.

EDIT: I just reliazed that you play with another mod! The recruitment priorities are handled in a file (export_descr_buildings.txt), not part of the AI pack, so you play with the settings of your mod, not Ultimate AI campaign.

[Bubba91873]

What happens if I were to set faction_standings f.e. between England and Scotland to -1.0 ?

Would they be constantly at war with each other just like the slave faction with no possibility of peace?

I would also like to set all Catholic nations to be at war with Islam factions -1.0

[mkk]

What happens if I were to set faction_standings f.e. between England and Scotland to -1.0 ?

They would be even more likely to go to war early and it would take longer before either of them considered a peace treaty. That value sets the starting point for their relations and the course of the game takes it on from there, meaning they could eventually start liking each other but at -1.0 it would be a very rare thing to actually see it happen.

[uk_john]

Eles, me too! I want to tone it down a bit!

[Smarmy]

It's in the campaign_script txt, either labeled as 'AI Treasury Manager' or 'AI Assistance Script'.

[Resurrection]

Hello GrandViz, thanks for this awesome mod. I've tried it yesterday and it was great. No real bugs or something, but I will provide you longer report. My setup:

- VH/VH
- removed "balance growth"
- removed "money script"

VERY SHORTLY FOR LAZY READERS :-)
I like the way this mod works. Some issues like general bodyguards (RC issue) or AI money/growth system should be tweaked, but it works fine as it is now. I dare to say, that this mods brings to M2TW the Diplomacy and lot of other wonderful stuff. For those who like read on the points and then the story, they do not double each other...

POINTS:

- AI marched through my land early on, especially HRE brought three stacks to Bologna before we had the alliance. Overal AI do not respect borders if it needs to march through your territory to accomplish something. Otherwise it respects them very fine. Also as I mention in the story/report, AI leaves its army sometimes to provoke you in your territory.
- Diplomacy is very active but not towards the player who had to make efforts on his own.
- Alliances are lasting and very reliable. And neutral faction do not hesitate to show hostilities, which is great. It brings actual politics in the game! Carefully choosing allies and enemies is essential.
- AI creates alliance blocks which aren't rigid! I saw 3 power blocks fighting it's own wars not depending on others! It was awesome, bloody awesome. I felt like in first Medieval: Total war. Also no nonsense wars as the readme claims :-)
- I disabled both money script and growth balance script. The results were surprising though. The AI definitely has some other sources a I could afford only one not full stack of units with maximum upkeen around 2500. Still Venice after loosing its city could raise similar or even bigger army. Not mentioning HRE, which had 3 stacks near Bologna and still could wage war with more stacks about Metz and actually be winning (sometimes). Also blocking the port had no real effect...
- Regarding the growth. I built up buildings at beginning levels very soon and then it took very long to get the uprgrade. I also used since the beggining only lowest taxation. Still AI miraculously could upgrade sooner then me. And this is the major exploit. Let the AI build up it's cities in AI way, which is obviously much better then player's and then capture it. When I captured Venice I got upgradable city with very high income even on lowest taxation.
- As for the battle AI in sally battles it's still very passive and doing stupidities (as sending all missile units far ahead to get them slaughtered, details in the story). Overally is battle AI much better though and I love the formations!
- Major issue regarding RC. Generals are simply gods. Captain general endure damn lot, but it's nothing in compare with bodyguards. Two hundreds of italian spears could kill in the crowd only few general bodyguards who then escaped easily... Only way how to kill GBs is to use crossbows (seem very effective) or own GBs. I would left them as they are, but I would tone their numbers again. Still they can be used as unstoppable tanks, so numbers like
* family members: 5+general
* faction heir: 10+general
* faction leader: 15+general
could solve the issue. It is roughly cutting them down a half again.
-Initially I liked that Italian cities are at their lower level than in vanilla. But Genoa has a port from the beginning as a town, which is impossible... maybe start with Genoa as "large town" to reflect this? But it's the matter of opinion.

STORY:

Diplomacy was very active, but not towards me. Very quick alliances were setup and due to my activity also I claimed some (Venice, Sicily and Papal states).

I focused on capturing rebel towns (as my council suggested also). Subsequently Florence, Ajaccio and Cagliari. All I sieged until they surrendered or sallied out (only Florence) with my whole army. My cities had only very small garrison and I left them at lowest taxation level.

By the time I was sieging Cagliari the war erupted between Venice and HRE. After few turns I used my new princess to claim alliance with HRE and thus ending the war for a time.

Somewhat surprisingly the war didn't break out between HRE and Venice again, but between Venice and Sicily. As I had my own ambitions at northern Italy, I broke alliance with the agressor (Venice). Venetian heir with his decent army then was standing next to Genoa. So I began to plan the war for this insult...

Cagliari was taken and my king with his other generals returned home. I prepared for the battle next two turns. Then I sent an assassin to end the life of venetian faction heir. Unfortunately he wasn't successful and the war erupted as a result. So I closed all passages through Apenins and attacked them close to sea. The battle went fine and with nearly twice as men I defeated them and captured the heir. None escaped... Venice couldn't afford the ransom and thus the heir was executed.

I regrouped and attacked Venice. As my reputation with the Pope was highest of all, he didn't bother me. Two turns of preparing during the siege and then attack with 3 rams and 6 siege towers. The city fell and the faction leader of Venice with it (actually as the last one). The fight was fierce and I lost nearly half of my army (438 of 938 soldiers).

Venice then attacked with almost full stack and one family member. My Duke sallied out and enemy made terrible mistake. They sent their missile units way forward of them to attack me and my generals killed or captured all of them. Then charging with cavalry to the weak spot at the enemy's right wing and crossbows lured them to attack. The chaos went through their lines when the general tried to flee alone and was strucked down by the bolt. They fought well, but they could not refresh the order in their lines and my cavalry did its bloody job... Only one soldier was able to escape the slaughter.

Venice was weakened and I had the council's task to take the city of Bern. I left one general and small, but sufficient, garrison to guard the Venice and marched to the Bern. The city was under constant pressure. French tried to capture it and their army rebelled and joined the garisson. Then Imperial might sieged the city. They was able to kill half of the rebels, but was defeated none the less. My Duke then tried different way. I sent the spy inside and he was able to open the door immediately. Two sided attack caught the enemy in the streets and sealed most of them the way to the square. Then they were easily overcame and Bern was captured.

By that time a war erupted between France and HRE for Metz. Battles were fought every turn with varied success at the both sides. I suspected that in this situation Bern is safe and I left there the young general and with similar garrison as in Venice. Next aim was to hold the Venetians off my territory. Since then my army stood at my borders with Ragusa just next to the Venetian army... no more land battles are fought though between us.

The council advised me to blockade the port of Ragusa and I did so several times. It didn't have much of an effect so the council suggested to blockade Iraklion which is the last Venetian city. My efforts to seal the peace with Venice wasn't successful and they build up new army. I also claimed new alliances. With Byzantines whose got Zagreb and with Spain.

Here, at turn 31 it was 1am, so I got to sleep :-)