Kingdoms, apachean tribes

[mbchudno]

i have a strong feeling that apachean tribes are way overpowered. yesterday spain tried to take city twice hitting it with 2 nearly full stacks. It did not even full stack defending it. Mostly apachean braves, some dog soldiers, couple medecine man... basic stuff. Both times heroic victory with spain having twice the power. 0 strategy on my end. just stuck all my forces into the city center to avoid routing from gun powder and canons and let them come. I thought i will just die but will take as many as possible with me and was very surprized to see heavy infantry and cavalery rout and die waves after waves. Whats up with that?

woops... wrong forum. mods, could you move it please. did not realize that there is a forum for expansion.

[Captain Spanky]

Perhaps they are a little overpowered in some respects. But they arent in others. For example, they can only have villages, which means building an economy is far harder, plus your religion is different from everybody elses, putting you at odds with neighbours immediately and making conquest harder. You do have warpath though...

[mbchudno]

don't know how having villages limits them. Their units are nearly free upkeep, after quickly getting most of the modern US (warpath with 2 armies to far right settlement, by turn 12-15 you will have most of the territories), and initial building, they start bringing 800-1000 each, thats 15k or so per turn within first 20-30 turns. With army upkeep so low, i never had any issues with money. Their basic units very effective, no need to wait for high end castle buildings. Basically, the only time i see queue staled is when i get new building to build and i start building it in all villages. Aside of that, i pump out stack after stack of units with no money issues. I really thought it would be something like large groups of peasants attacking professional knights with me having to use 2-3 full stacks to take down 1 full stack from enemy but its not the case.

[Captain Spanky]

Yeah, youre right I suppose. But villages only does hamper you when fighting defensively. But you do raise a very good point. Apachean upkeep is ridiculously low.

[mbchudno]

i was really hopping to see mob rush of wimpy units... kamikaze style, barehanded with teeth and claw on heavy armored, gun blasting enemies oh well... they should also give us ability to cook the bustards instead of execute them

[Trajan]

Moved to Kingdoms battle planning.

[Captain Spanky]

Haha yeah I know... +rep for the great imagery in that last post.

I think its a bit strange that the Apache can field armies to match any other power, but can afford to field many times more men than anyone else could possibly come up with. I suppose its only limited by the low unit recruitment limit in villages, making army building slow... But still, you can overrun everything if you wait long enough.

[Gorrrrrn]

In my Apachean camapign (which I lost as the Tlaxacans completed their victory conditions before I did, I was surprised at how good the Apachean battle line stood up to European armies even in the field and without thunder braves and the other advanced units (Ondes men etc)

My problems were 3 fold - the French respawned after I destroyed them which meant building a new army to retake the settlement they captured. Luckily they attacked the besieging army and I killed both family members so that was eventually the end of them.

The other is lack of roads. It takes forever to get from one side of the map to the other. And by the time you get an army assembled and near to your target, the war chief dies and the stack rebels.

Other problem - none of my wisemen seemed to gain enough piety after the first one died to call a warpath.

I also noticed that when the Apacheans capture a city they destroy all advanced buildings and then build their own, but the city in battles doesn't show any tipis just the original buildings from the original owners?

[The Mongol]

In my Apachean camapign (which I lost as the Tlaxacans completed their victory conditions before I did, I was surprised at how good the Apachean battle line stood up to European armies even in the field and without thunder braves and the other advanced units (Ondes men etc)

My problems were 3 fold - the French respawned after I destroyed them which meant building a new army to retake the settlement they captured. Luckily they attacked the besieging army and I killed both family members so that was eventually the end of them.

The other is lack of roads. It takes forever to get from one side of the map to the other. And by the time you get an army assembled and near to your target, the war chief dies and the stack rebels.

Other problem - none of my wisemen seemed to gain enough piety after the first one died to call a warpath.

I also noticed that when the Apacheans capture a city they destroy all advanced buildings and then build their own, but the city in battles doesn't show any tipis just the original buildings from the original owners?

I think the lack of roads are negated if you have a general in your army. They always have the "Nomad" trait that increases their movement.

[mbchudno]

hey, if i wanted to play civilized natives, i would play Aztec thanks for rep. 1 unit per turn per city is the only limit i can see so far, but it becomes pretty small problem when you can pump out 10-15 full stacks every 20 turns or so and maintain all of them while building more.

Rozanov, warpath makes you move very fast, just need to plan your moves and keep building stacks, then warpath them all on enemy. Make sure you have generals in your cities to use it. Usually calling warpath on city couple territories deep is enough to take a good bite of them before units start deserting. Also, most of my leaders and agents had "Nomad" trait and moved fairly fast. Re spawning of Europeans is a pain though. I had to kill darn France few times. Of well, more hot meals for my warriors

[Hunter Makoy]

i agree on the money side. it has been the easiest campaign as far as money is concerned. having villages does hurt quite a bit. for one thing all my villages can only build one unit at a time, except for the capitol which can build 2. also even half way through the campaign i was never able to upgrade to get the best units like oidens men and the archer thats above dog soilders.

however, having their upkeep cost very low does make sense. the apaches, as well as all the other natives, didn't have standing armies in the traditional sense. also most of their weapons were just as useful for hunting. (all mainly missles based) so when an apachi tribe sends an 'army' wat they r basically sending is a bunch of their own population, which weapons that they already had and use anyway.

[Gigantus]

Playing the Americas factions seems to become a mad race after 50 turns or so. One of the 'Aztec' tribes usually has the big breakthrough by then and swamps everybody. Haven't seen the Apaches acquiring firearms on their own, but the low upkeep just makes umpteenth stacks. And I suspect a script gives them just enough florins to recruit those 6-8 units per round even if they are broke.

[MunichRules]

i starte with the Apaches a few days ago. In the beginnining it was very annoying cause everything so far away. But then spanish arrive in my territory and take a rebell city. And some rounds later the french arrives very east (florida territory). So it looks to be some cahllenge to play on to frontiers against europeans. The Chimicheks, i let them live in peace, they were standing in war with Tarasks and both had army on equal level.
So i concentrate on taking all the rebel cities on the west coast (Rocky Mountain region) and the rest of rebell city left on the east side.
Finally at round 40 a had enough soldiers to attack the spanish with about 8 armies. From the Spanish part there landed about 5 armies on my territory.
Then on my way to their city i lost one army through lack of general. But finally i could fight 2 armies of them with 2 armies of mine and i lost (Too many Conquistadores :-)). Still 5 armies left i seek to attack the Spaniards. At round 46, suddenly came the event message "faction destroyed;Spain".
This must be impossible, they still had a city next to my territories. Also if they lost all cities against Atztecs and Mayas, still there is Havanna. And there is no mesoamerican faction who can land on this island, or ??? Or is it possibble they lost their last city against Aztecs and Mayas and on the same time
So, i think this a big bug !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gigantus]

At round 46, suddenly came the event message "faction destroyed;Spain".
This must be impossible, they still had a city next to my territories. Also if they lost all cities against Atztecs and Mayas, still there is Havanna. And there is no mesoamerican faction who can land on this island, or ??? Or is it possibble they lost their last city against Aztecs and Mayas and on the same time
So, i think this a big bug !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This will happen if the last member of the family gets killed or dies. It happened to me with the Tlaxcan?, all of a sudden there were 5! regions with rebels (I cheated with fow after the message).
It is certainly not a bug, just bad management on the side of the AI.

[mbchudno]

love it when it happens. whenever i play as moors if i move against Portugal first couple turns, i catch both of their men by the Lisbon, kill them and then their others turn rebel. not a bug. AI on strategic map does suck.

[Oploc]

Just stay out of the villages, keep armies in the field, eh?

AS for having no roads, u noticed that the generals/agents get movement traits/retinue easy? Black Stalion anyone?