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Thread: New AI for EB2:

  1. #1

    Default New AI for EB2:

    Xeryx’s AI V2.1

    I tested this all night. It's as different from the old AI as AoR is from vanilla recruiting. Check it out:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=123990

    Obviously MTW2 AI is moddable in dramatic ways. How to use the Papal States and religion should be of major importance to the dev team, imo.

    What entity was pervasive enough in the ancient Med./Hellenistic world to be on par with the Catholic Church of the Middle Ages? Think social systems, not institutions. What defined the era?

    I'm going to meditate on Trade.
    Last edited by HistoryProf; September 27, 2007 at 09:59 AM.

  2. #2
    Zarax's Avatar Triple Chaosmaster
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    Default Re: New AI for EB2:

    I just wish it was possible to change religions like in BI, that way you could have the form of government defined as religion.
    Other than that, like I said before the church system could be good to emulate loose satrapies/protectorates so obviously situations like seleucids or carthage.

    Trade would be interesting but I'm not sure if it's vertically pervasive enough to warrant the status you're thinking about...
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  3. #3

    Default Re: New AI for EB2:

    Vertically pervasive? How do you mean?

  4. #4
    Lusted's Avatar Look to the stars
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    Default Re: New AI for EB2:

    You can change ai labels for factions via scripting, check this thread:

    http://rtw.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/f...f=9,6718,0,365


    Note: In the begining of the descr_campaign_ai_db.xml it says this..

    Additionally, the ai_labels can be tested through event conditions and set through
    // a script command, potentially allowing ai behaviour to be changed dynamically in game depending on current game state.

    Meaning you can script in a change to a faction's ai_label. An example would be

    link_faction_ai england default

    which means an AI England would use the ai_label 'default' from that point on. This command dose work, however, in the LTGD log is will still note the faction as using the ai_label given in the descr_strat regardless of what label it is actually using.
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  5. #5
    Zarax's Avatar Triple Chaosmaster
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    Default Re: New AI for EB2:

    Quote Originally Posted by HistoryProf View Post
    Vertically pervasive? How do you mean?
    Trade was important but did all elites care enough about it to warrant a central point in their policies?
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  6. #6

    Default Re: New AI for EB2:

    Z, I believe trade was ALL important. Amber Route, Silk Road, Slaves, Grain...

    In fact, trade rights were almost always a central part of treaties and alliances.

    You really cannot find an Empire in all of history that was totally self-sustaining. Ok, maybe the Chin, or perhaps India. But where they didn't import goods, they sold theirs for gold, so you could argue they needed it as well.

    Lusted, you have me digging around the AI now. Just what I needed: a new obsession. Thanks!

  7. #7
    Zarax's Avatar Triple Chaosmaster
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    Default Re: New AI for EB2:

    HP, I'm not denying the importance of trade at all, believe me.
    What I'm saying is that I don't think it was so strong (among the elites at least) to give it such a far reaching political effect as religion in the middle ages as it would imply that nations in the hellenistic ages were essentially plutocracies.

    That could be true in some cases (Carthage, KH, Saba and maybe a couple others to a stretch) but either we would be using a faction slot to support a relatively small number of factions (and in that case I would rather have KH split) or probably pushing the concept out of its historical boundaries.

    I understand where you are pointing (Rome started more than a war because somebody tried to mess with their "grain depots") but I'm not sure I understand your concept of central part in diplomacy.

    As I'm nothing more than an amateur in history I would definitely like to hear more about it, maybe I disagree just because my knowledge is too superficial.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: New AI for EB2:

    I have started threads in a few areas to drum up as much conversation on this topic as possible. The original intent of this thread was to drum up Beta-testers to your mod and expose EB modders to the M2TW AI!

    I really don't claim to have any of the answers to the question. But, I feel someone out there will get a spark of genius if the idea is batted around for a bit. A concept will be born of several parents.

  9. #9
    Zarax's Avatar Triple Chaosmaster
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    Default Re: New AI for EB2:

    Well, one interesting bit would be to use the mission system to represent the historical factional interests better.
    It could for example be used to trigger a mission for KH if Sinope is taken instead of just triggering war with them.
    Perhaps the papal states could be used to represent the Diadochii or even better Rome and its clients.
    Think about crusades/jihads as "calls for help" by a certain local power (Macedonian war, Saguntum and so on) that triggers a casus belli...

    There is only one problem: was historically present a single power that was influential enough to heavily play diplomacy but not aggressively expansive?
    Something like that must be used to represent the papacy (due to harcoding war with the papal state results in excommunication IIRC) and must not be in the middle of the action.
    Perhaps the ptolemies?
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  10. #10

    Default Re: New AI for EB2:

    I wish I had a better understanding of the dynamic that the different Empires had with each other.

    Before I went to sleep last night I had the idea that the 'Papal States' could be a 'faction' that had an off-strat_map 'capitol', and all factions on the map would be 'Catholic' and just not use the other three religions. Adjust the 'Papal' AI so that it doesn't want territory, but has purely politically motives. It would be another layer of diplomacy to augment the one already in place. Call the Papal States the 'Economy', or something. I dunno... it's just a whisper in my head at the moment. The Eleutheroi could be the 'islamic states'? Damn brain!
    Last edited by HistoryProf; September 30, 2007 at 02:24 PM.

  11. #11
    Zarax's Avatar Triple Chaosmaster
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    Default Re: New AI for EB2:

    It would work but AFAIK the EB team ruled against non playable factions...
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  12. #12

    Default Re: New AI for EB2:

    Well, my idea is that it wouldn't be a 'faction' in the traditional sense. The 'Papal States' would instead be used to represent a social force. The 'capitol' would be off-screen and inaccessible. It would have no troops, no economy, no territory. What it would do is represent certain parameters and present the player and AI with some machinery within which to interact.

    For example, if the game were based on 2007, the "Papal States" could be redefined to represent "Terrorism". Just using the mechanics of the 'Papal States' to represent some level of activity within every other faction. So 'Catholic' as a percentage (ex: Naples - 85% catholic) could be re-termed as a proportion of terrorist cell activity (ex: NYC - .05%).

    This would never work, because there would be no mechanism for getting the agents (priests) to the strategic map from wherever this off-screen 'Capitol' would be. But I am trying to open the possibility of different manifestations of this very unique quality the 'Papal States' has in it's coding.

    Brainstorming, if you will.

  13. #13
    Zarax's Avatar Triple Chaosmaster
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    Default Re: New AI for EB2:

    I think I found a single factor pervasive enough to cover at least the more urbanized factions: grain distribution over the population.
    I'm confident equivalent factors can be found for most factions, will post more in detail later.
    The Best Is Yet To Come:

  14. #14

    Default Re: New AI for EB2:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarax View Post
    Well, one interesting bit would be to use the mission system to represent the historical factional interests better.
    It could for example be used to trigger a mission for KH if Sinope is taken instead of just triggering war with them.
    Perhaps the papal states could be used to represent the Diadochii or even better Rome and its clients.
    Think about crusades/jihads as "calls for help" by a certain local power (Macedonian war, Saguntum and so on) that triggers a casus belli...

    There is only one problem: was historically present a single power that was influential enough to heavily play diplomacy but not aggressively expansive?
    Something like that must be used to represent the papacy (due to harcoding war with the papal state results in excommunication IIRC) and must not be in the middle of the action.
    Perhaps the ptolemies?
    See, that's the kind of thinking I am talking about! I like the idea of using the Seleucid Empire as the Papal States. Someone else mentioned that it would be good, but in a different mod, not EB. Even if the Seleucids, Ptolemies (excommunicated), Pontus and Bactria (perhaps other Greeks as well...) are the only 'Catholics'. An 'excommunication' of 'Catholic' Bactria wouldn't effect 'Default' or 'Islam' Rome.
    Last edited by HistoryProf; October 01, 2007 at 08:45 AM.

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