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  1. #1
    Tacticalwithdrawal's Avatar Ghost
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    Default SS Death-camp guards were just ordinary people

    A photograph album from an SS officer at Auschwitz has just been published on line (BBC link below) - for me the really worrying thing is how normal they are relaxing after a hard day at 'the office'.

    Kinda points to the fact that, given the right circumstances, any of us could end up in their position

    In pictures:
    - BBC Story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7011371.stm
    - Auschwitz album: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/7014750.stm
    - United States Holocaust Memorial Museum: http://www.ushmm.org/

    At first glance, the photographs seem innocuous enough. Men and women in uniform lie back in deckchairs, listen to accordion music, decorate a Christmas tree. It seems like a carefree life - but the pictures were taken at the Auschwitz death camp at the height of the Holocaust. The happy men and women are Nazi officials enjoying time off from the business of genocide, snapped by Karl Hoecker, an adjutant to the camp commander.

    His unique album of 116 photographs was found in Frankfurt in 1946 by a US intelligence officer, who kept it to himself for six decades before showing it to the US Holocaust Memorial Museum last year.

    Museum archivist Rebecca Erbelding, who has helped to put album online, believes the very ordinariness of the scenes captured is what makes them so chilling.

    'It shouldn't have surprised us that this was how they lived in Auschwitz, that this was how they unwound after a 'hard day's work'," she told the BBC News website. "But I think it's shocking because it's a reminder that they were human beings, that they weren't red-eyed monsters, that they had pets and children and lives, and yet could do this to other people."

    The find has significantly increased the number of photographs available to historians of Auschwitz-Birkenau before its liberation in January 1945. Previously, only about 320 images were known, many of them in the so-called Auschwitz Album, which shows the arrival of Hungarian Jews at the camp in May 1944. Hoecker's album includes the only known pictures of Dr Josef Mengele - notorious for the medical experiments he conducted on Auschwitz inmates - taken within the camp's confines. Not a single prisoner appears in any of the images.

    Ms Erbelding says the album seems to have been created very much as a personal keepsake. The photographs show SS officers but no Auschwitz prisoners Many of the pictures were taken at Solahuette, a little-known SS resort near Auschwitz where the camp's guards were periodically sent as a reward for hard work. Hoecker himself is a regular fixture, decorating a Christmas tree in one photograph, going hunting or playing with his dog in others.

    A series of images dated 22 July 1944 shows him eating blueberries with a group of female SS auxiliaries, one of whom pretends to cry as she holds her now-empty bowl upside-down. On that same day, the museum's researchers found, 150 prisoners, Jews and non-Jews, arrived on a transport to Auschwitz. The SS selected 21 men and 12 women for work and killed the rest in the gas chambers.

    Another image shows Hoecker enjoying a sing-along with senior SS officers, identified by the museum as Dr Mengele, former Auschwitz Kommandant Rudolf Hoess, gas chamber supervisor Otto Moll and Birkenau Kommandant Josef Kramer.

    Despite Hoecker's apparent closeness to those in charge, he is a relatively little-known figure in Nazi history. After World War II, he went into banking and was only tracked down by Nazi hunters in 1961. He faced charges at the Frankfurt Auschwitz Trial in 1963 but prosecutors were unable to find any witnesses or evidence directly linking him to the killings at Auschwitz. Hoecker protested he was innocent, yet the photographs in his album show him socialising with those most closely involved. "It strains credulity to suggest he would have been unaware of their crimes," is the museum's verdict. He was sentenced to seven years in prison and released on parole in 1970. He returned to his banking job and eventually died in Germany in 2000, aged 88.

    Modern parallels

    Dr Stephen Feinstein, director of the Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies at the University of Minnesota, said the photographs reveal an almost schizophrenic disconnect between the people and their actions.

    "These people were trying to have a normal life while they were killing people," he said. "What is says to me is that anybody is capable of committing genocide under the right circumstances, and what we have to figure out is what makes that possible."

    He draws a parallel between what happened in Nazi Germany and more recent events in Rwanda and Bosnia, where people who had lived side-by-side for years ended up killing each other. He also sees an echo in the scandal at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, where American men and women "raised as good citizens" were guilty of abusing Iraqi prisoners in their charge.

    Visitors' book

    But Dr Robert Rozett, director of the libraries at the Yad Vashem Holocaust Centre in Israel, said this is not a surprise to those familiar with the history of the Holocaust. Yad Vashem's own archives include a visitor's book kept by camp commandant Rudolf Hoess, where guests thank him for their lovely stay, he pointed out.

    "What the pictures are is a very graphic visual illustration of what was going on there, and so are very important in helping us understand who the murderers were, that they often saw themselves as ordinary human beings. And in some ways they were - but they had an ideology of hate and engaged in mass murder. But they divorced themselves from that, would go home, listen to classical music, host their friends, have a good time."
    Last edited by Tacticalwithdrawal; September 27, 2007 at 06:51 AM.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: SS Death-camp guards were just ordinary people

    That's what's really scary, I remember I watched this program where they used lip reading software to find out what was being said in all of these "home videos" taken at hitlers mountain retreat. There's footage of him looking happy, relaxed and stuff, but he's discussing with himmler about auschwitz etc. It's frightening how they showed no remorse.

  3. #3

    Default Re: SS Death-camp guards were just ordinary people

    There are accounts which, if we open our hearts to them, will cut us too deeply. Look- here is a good man, good by his own lights, and the lights of his friends: he is faithful and true to his wife, he adores and lavishes attention on his little children, he cares about his country, he does his job punctiliously, as best as he can. So efficiently and good-naturedly, he exterminates Jews, he appreciates the music that plays in the background to pacify them; he advises the Jews not to forget their identification numbers as they go into the showers - many people, he tells them, forget their numbers, and take the wrong clothes when they come out of the showers. This calms the Jews. There will be life, they assure themselves, after the showers. Our man supervises the detail taking the bodies to the ovens; and if there is anything he feels bad about, it is that he still allows the gassing of vermin to affect him. Were he a truly good man, he knows, he would feel nothing but joy as the earth is cleansed of its pests.

    [from 'American Gods', a novel by Neil Gaiman, Londen 2001, Headline Feature, p. 273.]

    based on a real story, I believe.

  4. #4

    Default Re: SS Death-camp guards were just ordinary people

    Ofcourse they were ordinary people. The only reason to claim otherwise would be in fear of having to face the demons of your own life's motivations and conclusions.

    Untill life is imbued with a real sense of compassion for each and every individual, untill each person realises that the suffering of the few outweigh the desires of even the self, then crimes such as these, crimes as evil as these, will continue to occur throughout life from the scale of the individual to the scale of the nation-state and race.

    The history of the Nazi state is an example of what can occur when powerful feelings of superiority, feelings of positive definitive change and progress, are combined to fundamental prejudice and deep seated sociological and philosophical flaws.

    The Nazi state is the embodiement of the evil inherant in the the quest for self aggrandisement that has no compassion for others. The evil inherant in the survival of the fittest.

    Unless we check in humanity its ambitions for singular, individual success and power irrespective of the lives, success and existence of others, this kind of evil can never be removed from occurance, much less thought.
    "Genius never desires what does not exist."
    -Søren Kierkegaard


    ''I know everything, in that I know nothing''
    - Socrates

  5. #5
    MCM's Avatar Saint of lost causes
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    Default Re: SS Death-camp guards were just ordinary people

    This is what makes being a human so powerful

    you have the power for good, or bad, at any moment, and your actions reverberate beyond your own self

    Human beings have the potential for the greatest good, but more often than not waste it on the very worst of actions which are easier

    as they say- live and learn

    peace

    MCM

  6. #6

    Default Re: SS Death-camp guards were just ordinary people

    What's bad, what's good?

    They had gotten into Germany and came to a small concentration camp. The camp had a small contingent of German soldiers overseeing a larger contingent of eastern European guards. When the American soldiers arrived, the German soldiers, led by an officer, were in formation. The American soldiers saw the emaciated prisoners, the corpses, etc. The German officer presented himself to the American company commander, a captain. The German officer offered all the correct military courtesies, saluting, etc.; really putting on a "one soldier to another" act.

    The Armerican captain grabbed an M-1 rifle from one of his men. The captain then proceeded to beat that German officer to death with the butt of that M-1 rifle.

    Probably apocryphal, but what quite a few people would like to do, or wished they had.

    Is that so much better, one must ask.

  7. #7

    Default Re: SS Death-camp guards were just ordinary people

    Monsters only exist in stories. Behind the action of most every great evil lies the hand of a person who is not all that different from you or I.

  8. #8

    Default Re: SS Death-camp guards were just ordinary people

    Quote Originally Posted by Sher Khan View Post
    Monsters only exist in stories. Behind the action of most every great evil lies the hand of a person who is not all that different from you or I.
    Well, obviously slightly different, even if I hated a person, I wouldn't be able to treat them like the jews were treated in the camps and still be able to smile.

  9. #9

    Default Re: SS Death-camp guards were just ordinary people

    Yes, you would.
    At this moment, you have the inner belief that Jews are completely fine people and don't need to be exterminated.
    If all you learned during your adult life was the opposite, you'd be just like the guy in post 3: you'd still feel squeamish when killing a human being, but would see that as a weakness in yourself rather than a realization that what you're doing is wrong. Don't underestimate what you're capable of.





  10. #10

    Default Re: SS Death-camp guards were just ordinary people

    Couldn't you? It's not such a simple thing as to 'hate' another. We say this a lot, but 98% of the time we fall short of what hate can really mean.

    Better questions to ask yourself when doing grim work:

    1) Do these people deserve to be called people? Are they worthy of civility?
    2) Do I honestly care what happens to them?
    3) Am I obligated to do this to them by some form of nationalism or other ideology?
    4) Is it something that must be done for whatever that greater good may be?



    Some, I'm sure, are sadistic to enjoy their work, but many more are rather apathetic to such things. It becomes more of a matter of duty than a matter of satisfaction (although this point may vary from person to person).

  11. #11

    Default Re: SS Death-camp guards were just ordinary people

    @ Serious Spamurai

    Correct - like RusskiSoldat says: Just imagine yourself guarding a bunch of war-criminals. People you utterly disgust, rapists, the works.

  12. #12

    Default Re: SS Death-camp guards were just ordinary people

    Take the story Spurius posted about the camp guard acting like a diligent soldier and the US soldier coming upon him. Could he (the American) have envisioned himself, 5 years from then sitting in his comfortable American home, beating a full-grown German man to death with repeated smashes from the end of his rifle?

    He would say, of course not. I could never take to such extreme violence.


    Even if it was in spurious anger over the discovery of such a brutal camp, he still looks down on a corpse that was beaten to death with his own weapon. He could have simply shot the man. He could have simply arrested him like he would normally think to do as a soldier.

    Could he have imagined himself becoming a murderer? Would he have believed such a thing to be impossible?

    Would you? Would I?

  13. #13

    Default Re: SS Death-camp guards were just ordinary people

    the early years of executions where villages were emptied and machineguned and kicked into ditches shows us that the normal soldiers who were made to do this in large numbers were greatly effected by it. most soldiers put on execution detail often would get "sick" and not participate, and eventually came down with many psychological illnesses. but when suicides started to rise drastically, hitlers adminstrators knew they had to make the genocide more uniform and hidden from the general army. this is why the death head SS units were created, because they were highly indoctrinated people seemingly not effected by the duty they volunteered to carry out. hardly what id call "ordinary people".

  14. #14

    Default Re: SS Death-camp guards were just ordinary people

    I wonder what kind of strange machine the Nazis constructed to transform ordinary men into inhuman monsters who feel no twinge of emotion.

    School, perhaps?

    Sounds like normal brainwashing to me.

  15. #15

    Default Re: SS Death-camp guards were just ordinary people

    Quote Originally Posted by Sher Khan View Post
    I wonder what kind of strange machine the Nazis constructed to transform ordinary men into inhuman monsters who feel no twinge of emotion.

    School, perhaps?

    Sounds like normal brainwashing to me.
    or extensive psychological testing when trying to get into the elite SS would weed out any of those with any twinge sympathy. the german armed forces were ordinary people, the SS were the fanatics, and the death head units responsible for most of the genecide and the death camp guards were not ordinary people, they were monsters. these people werent forced into the SS, they volunteered, and those who joined the death head units knew exactly what they were getting into.

  16. #16

    Default Re: SS Death-camp guards were just ordinary people

    Quote Originally Posted by scheuch13 View Post
    the german armed forces were ordinary people, the SS were the fanatics


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_cri..._the_Wehrmacht

  17. #17

    Default Re: SS Death-camp guards were just ordinary people

    Quote Originally Posted by scheuch13 View Post
    the early years of executions where villages were emptied and machineguned and kicked into ditches shows us that the normal soldiers who were made to do this in large numbers were greatly effected by it. most soldiers put on execution detail often would get "sick" and not participate, and eventually came down with many psychological illnesses. but when suicides started to rise drastically, hitlers adminstrators knew they had to make the genocide more uniform and hidden from the general army. this is why the death head SS units were created, because they were highly indoctrinated people seemingly not effected by the duty they volunteered to carry out. hardly what id call "ordinary people".
    Quote Originally Posted by scheuch13 View Post
    or extensive psychological testing when trying to get into the elite SS would weed out any of those with any twinge sympathy. the german armed forces were ordinary people, the SS were the fanatics, and the death head units responsible for most of the genecide and the death camp guards were not ordinary people, they were monsters. these people werent forced into the SS, they volunteered, and those who joined the death head units knew exactly what they were getting into.

    No doubt the absolute fanatics were zealously indoctrinated, but have you ever heard of Kristallnacht?

    Indeed have you ever seen investigations into Gestapo documents showing statements written by people spying on their neighbours? One individual was reported as being a possible Jew, or anti Nazi sympathiser, because her neighbour saw her having women guests in her house, not male guests, and this 'seemed not right'.

    Nazi Germany in its completeness is an example of charismatic dictatorship, ruthless propoganda, a society susceptable to radical ideaology, and a political/economic scenario enviting radical action. This in itself is not unique to Germany circa 1930's, but what is unique is the precise form.

    Every individual that is open to suggestion is open to suggestion. Every individual cowed into towing the line does so. There are many reasons as to why not taking part in what occured in Nazi Germany seemed as unlikely to them, as taking part in it seems to us now. All of these reasons can be seen in every day life in varying degrees.

    The biggest danger about the demonisation and quick fire dismissal and disgust at the events that went on in 1930s Germany is that we miss the very essential lessons of the truth of what occured.

    Nazi Germany was the raw Machiavellian nature of humanity laid bare and stripped of all its pretentious rubbish, exposing not only its ruthless nature and absolute drive for success irrespective of consequence, but also showing to the world at large the deepest flaws in human character, emotional attachment and reason. A study of Nazi Germany is a study on the true nature of man, a nature that one must actively strive against otherwise it simply and without control or thought exerts itself through our base motivations and goals in life. There is no greater critique of human nature in living or recorded memory than Nazi Germany itself, but in applying this nature only to those people in that time, we lie to ourselves and we doom ourselves to repeat this history each and every generation.

    There is no bigger irony in the denial of these lessons due to basic human psychological flaws than the state of Israel itself today. The actions of Israel today in light of the actions of Nazi Germany show us what human nature is all about.
    Last edited by eventhorizen; September 27, 2007 at 10:51 PM.
    "Genius never desires what does not exist."
    -Søren Kierkegaard


    ''I know everything, in that I know nothing''
    - Socrates

  18. #18

    Default Re: SS Death-camp guards were just ordinary people

    i didnt say the wehrmacht didnt commit any war crimes, but they were also conscripts for quite alot of them. however they werent even close on the scale of the institionalized mania that was the SS.

  19. #19

    Default Re: SS Death-camp guards were just ordinary people

    Quote Originally Posted by scheuch13 View Post
    i didnt say the wehrmacht didnt commit any war crimes, but they were also conscripts for quite alot of them. however they werent even close on the scale of the institionalized mania that was the SS.
    Each and every soldier was given a copy of Mein Kampf. They knew what Hitler was about.
    "Genius never desires what does not exist."
    -Søren Kierkegaard


    ''I know everything, in that I know nothing''
    - Socrates

  20. #20

    Default Re: SS Death-camp guards were just ordinary people

    Reminds me of "Vultures" by Achebe. Those with AQA will realise...

    Thus the Commandant at Belsen
    Camp going home for
    the day with fumes of
    human roast clinging
    rebelliously to his hairy
    nostrils will stop
    at the wayside sweet-shop
    and pick up a chocolate
    for his tender offspring
    waiting at home for Daddy's return ...

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