Best uses for Venetian Heavy Infantry?

[Captain Spanky]

Hey, I was just wondering if some more experienced Venice players could help me out here:

When attacked I typically deploy my forces as follows:
Missiles in front,
DFK to absorb the charge,
VHI behind to support,
Armoured Sergeants on the flanks along with the cavalry,
General behind.
(Sometimes if there are trees nearby I place some VHI in ambush to hit the enemy on the sides as they charge my lines.)

The problem with this is that when I charge the VHI in they get stuck behind the DFK and can't really do much. Of course, once the DFk are thinned out by the fighting the VHI begin their work.

Could anybody suggest alternative strategies for me? I find I lose more men I probably should doing what I do now. If I were to fight the same battle with my favourite Italian faction, (Milan), I know I could win by a much larger margin.

[homefry]

I find the VHI are better than DFK at fighting cavalry. And DFK and VHI are both equal at fighting infantry.

There's no need to have 2 lines of elite units. Just spread them out all in 1 line.

I spread out my archers in the front and turn off skirmish. Then I spread the elite units in 1 line that stretches from archer to archer. How the enemy attacks determines how I use my men to attack. If they concentrate to my middle, then I order the end units to run towards the outside with the intent to crash towards the enemy in the middle.

What ever happens, I always try to attack from the outside going in. So if the enemy has the same number of units as me and is coming at me 1:1, I still order the end units to run outwards with the intent of crashing inwards. Mass rout.

At the same time, I order the archers to run to the back and turn off fire at will mode. With my units surrounding the enemy, the archers will hurt me more than the enemy.

So what happens is the middle 1-2 units take the enemy straight on and the other units run outwards and then crash towards the middle.

[Captain Spanky]

I'm not sure what you mean about running outwards then crashing towards the middle... Could you explain that please. And I use my archers in the same way, but occasionally have them shoot fire into the melee if there is a sufficient target, i.e, massed enemy without too many allies nearby.

And I assume the cavaly would be doing typical cavalry stuff? As in, getting rid of enemy missile troops/artillery or flanking/hitting from the rear.

Thanks a lot for the help, I can see why so many people like Venice, but I often find it a more difficuly faction than others to play as.

[homefry]

Venice's units are awesome. The only problem is you get horse archers (mounted crossbowmen) with a citadel which is pretty late in the game. But other than that, you could basically play the whole early game without any castles (if you get some nice hospitallar knight guilds). With pavise crossbow, spear militia, and hospitaller knights, you become a cheap unstoppable force supported by a strong economy of mainly cities.

(Assuming we're playing against the computer)

With cavalry, I always send them to the flanks of the enemy early. Close enough to charge, but far enough for the enemy archers to ignore them. Have them wait for the archers to straggle away from the infantry group and then attack. Then have the cavalry run away, so the infantry can't get to them. If you get a good charge, half the archers will be dead.

Let's say you have 6 units of infantry and the enemy has 6 units of identical infantry. If you both meet in the middle face to face with the same number of men, it'll be a draw. You lose tons of men and the computer lose tons of men.

Here, you have to take advantage of the fact that only the front lines of units fight and if an enemy is surrounded, they will rout more easily. So you stretch out the middle 3-4 units and have them engage the enemy while 1-2 units run around the huge mass. Leave an opening for your cavalry to hit the enemy and crash towards the middle. Highlight all of your troops and target the enemy units in the center = crash towards the center. At the same time as you're troops are running around the huge mass, turn off the skirmish of your archers and send them into the fight. At this point, crossbowmen/archers shooting arrows is pretty much useless. They'll cause almost equal casualties on both sides. Use them as a scare tactic. They won't engage because they'll be behind the stretched units, but the addition of more men will add to the chance of enemy rout. Their insurance incase something happens to your stretched units, but I've never had to use them in a fight. BTW, the pavise can fight well in melee combat.

Not to mention, crossbowmen are useless if you have friendlies in front of them because they have to shoot in an arch and crossbows are only effective if shot straight.

And they made those venetian archers pretty weak. My pavise crossbowmen always rack up more kills.

I don't like Venice's starting position. You have a huge bay inbetween your captial and the rest of your cities/castles. And those 2 lower islands (Iraklion and Rhodes) are a major pain to try to defend.

[Captain Spanky]

Thanks for the advice, I shall definetly try that out.

And yeah, I'm not such a huge fan of Venetian Archers, but they do make excellent garrison troops.

I also quite like the start position. All right, it puts you at odds with most of the world but its a challenge when compared to other factions start positions, such as England or the Moors.

EDIT: Just to let you know, I did what you said and have given the Hungarians a solid whupping. Thanks for the advice. +rep

[Oploc]

i find Venetian heavy inf. as a good pinner for assult teams.

Example: Throw the Heavy inf, at enemy frount lines as fast as they can, with cav taking the flanks, but slower than the inf. Inf hit the lines, cause a general fray between forces, cavalry rush behind their lines, hit their cav/general, and spearment from behind.