Nothing happens by chance/everything happens for a reason

[Khosson]

Can anyone who believes this to be true explain to me what exactly do they mean by this?

Honestly I find it quite annoying when someone tells me this because it doesn't fit with what I believe.

So could you please explain exactly what does this mean, if it applies to the universe, to humans or to both etc.

[Medicus]

It means that a higher power is manipulating everything that happens in the universe, from the creation of stars to a gust of wind.

Obviously, when your 15 year old son is run over by a drunk driver you can take comfort in the fact that God "took him for a reason".

[Serious Spamurai]

Ah, the old "It was his time, All is as god wills it" theory, never really undersiood that, but I suppose it helps some people get over greif.

[Farnan]

I firmly believe in this, and my life has been my proof. Everything that has happened good or bad has led me to the point I am right now and I am glad. If things have gone differently and times had gone how I wanted I would be miserable with my life totally different.

[HopliteElite]

I firmly believe in this, and my life has been my proof. Everything that has happened good or bad has led me to the point I am right now and I am glad. If things have gone differently and times had gone how I wanted I would be miserable with my life totally different.

This is simply an example of how we are all conditioned by past stimuli into who we are today and will continue being conditioned by external stimuli until we die. For instance, I too, when I think back, realize that past events in my life have led me to where I am today and that if they never occured I'd be quite different but this does not imply that what happened was meant to be.

To use an example, if your son dies in a drunk driving accident, then you end up becoming a major advocate for harsher laws against drunk driving, which results in massive decreases of drunk driving related deaths, it is not indicative that your son was "meant" to die so you could do this great deed, considering you probably wouldn't have done it had he never died in such a way. It is simply a perfect example of how everything we do or think is a reaction to past stimuli and reinforcers, be they positive or negative.

[Farnan]

This is simply an example of how we are all conditioned by past stimuli into who we are today and will continue being conditioned by external stimuli until we die. For instance, I too, when I think back, realize that past events in my life have led me to where I am today and that if they never occured I'd be quite different but this does not imply that what happened was meant to be.

To use an example, if your son dies in a drunk driving accident, then you end up becoming a major advocate for harsher laws against drunk driving, which results in massive decreases of drunk driving related deaths, it is not indicative that your son was "meant" to die so you could do this great deed, considering you probably wouldn't have done it had he never died in such a way. It is simply a perfect example of how everything we do or think is a reaction to past stimuli and reinforcers, be they positive or negative.

Seems you are a big fan of behaviorism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behaviorism



I understand what you are saying, and I agree. However you and I probably disagree on the cause of the stimuli.

[Spurius]

Seems you are a big fan of behaviorism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behaviorism



I understand what you are saying, and I agree. However you and I probably disagree on the cause of the stimuli.

Behaviourism isn't 100% watertight. It leaks a few percent. That does not automatically equal free or divine will.

I don't believe in a Great NeuroTransmitter in the Sky [AND having that same entity juggling nature AND time AND souls AND their destiny] - pffft why would He bother with Creation if it's all Him, anyway. That's pantheism with a totally unneccessary twist.

We have our own freedom, however slight, but it's ours and ours alone, and our responsibility. Morally responsible and gentlemanly behaviour, whatever, does not require a Deity slapping your wrist and praising you at turns. That's very Freudian, a Father indeed. Don't need one all over again, thanks. *Being* one is enough for me, at this point in life.

[Dayman]

Everything that "happens" is the result of past events and influences. But I disagree with people who claim that happens because "the LORD intended little Jimmy to die of leukemia."

If that is true, than no one is guilty of their actions, cause God intended them.

[HopliteElite]

Seems you are a big fan of behaviorism.

Indeed, I have all of Skinner's books and I am a psychology major, with a firm personal focus on behaviorism.

We have our own freedom, however slight, but it's ours and ours alone, and our responsibility.

This seems to be the mentality that most hold but adhering to such a belief simply allows negative behaviors to continue instead of looking into what causes them, then trying to change the sociological factors involved. Seeing problems in the world and blaming free-will, while holding only a few individuals "responsible" for their behavior will never create the kinds of fundamentals changes we need in order to survive as a species.

Behaviourism isn't 100% watertight. It leaks a few percent.

You say this as if it is simply a fact but behavioristic techniques have not been used adequately on humans, in controlled experimental settings, to prove them true or false. This is probably due to the fear that behaviorism could be proven correct, as that would defeat, beyond all reasonable doubt the existence of free-will, which many seem to find scary.

[Scar Face]

I don't think this quote means God is manipulating your life. Rather, I always took it as meaning that no single event in your life is pointless. Everyone you meet, everything you do, all the way to suddenly bumping into a person, it all effects you. Bad or Good it makes you who you are, cause and effect.

[hellas1]

Hi all,

Let's understand this very simply first.

Point 1: Cause and Effect are REAL.

Point 2: Things called accidents aren't, they happen in time when factors arise.

Point 3: Coinciding factors = "accidents" or "for a reason"

Now, How does "God's will" come in?

Point 4: I, in my little ego/personality don't know...perhaps If I tap into God I Will know.

As a caveat, please consider the following subpoints, please:
A. Haunted places, ghosts, bizarre things like doors/glasses moving by themselves.
Trust me it's real, I saw a ghost and if it was dark where I was, I would have SWANDIVED out the window!!!!!!!!!!! No kidding!

B. Miracles

C. Other weird ****** people just can't explain with everyday understanding and science/scientific tools!

Comments?
hellas1

[Spurius]

You say this as if it is simply a fact but behavioristic techniques have not been used adequately on humans, in controlled experimental settings, to prove them true or false. This is probably due to the fear that behaviorism could be proven correct, as that would defeat, beyond all reasonable doubt the existence of free-will, which many seem to find scary.

Please, you know better, I take it. Burrhus himself acknowledged this:

"What was important for a behaviorist analysis of human behavior was not language acquisition so much as the interaction between language and overt behavior. In an essay republished in his 1969 book Contingencies of Reinforcement, Skinner took the view that humans could construct linguistic stimuli that would then acquire control over their behavior in the same way that external stimuli could. The possibility of such "instructional control" over behavior meant that contingencies of reinforcement would not always produce the same effects on human behavior as they reliably do in other animals."

That's saying it leaks.

(same wiki, but there's plenty more caveats)

and even a chimp baby will prefer a cuddly replica-mother over a steel one, even if that one gives milk - although behaviorism would rather have seen a different outcome.

Darwin (under whose umbrella Mr. Skinner wisely tries to stand) clearly states that humans are constantly improving themselves to gain better self-control. Yet, "to increase self-control means to increase liberty" or free will, something Skinner's very theory denies exists. [sound of umbrella being snapped up, and retreating footsteps in the rain]

If people want more criticisms of it, they can scroll down to the applicable section here, for instance, it has a whole list:

http://www.personalityresearch.org/papers/naik.html

[James Cook]

Everything that "happens" is the result of past events and influences. But I disagree with people who claim that happens because "the LORD intended little Jimmy to die of leukemia."

If that is true, than no one is guilty of their actions, cause God intended them.

i say "amen" to that

my thoughts on the lord allmighty is that people want to be fooled

[Chaigidel]

God Willing-- just means--- whatever will be will be since you cant know gods will--its pretty simple really.-- if it happens it is gods will no matter what it is.

everything does happen for a reason, but it is a reasoning that is insane, and for the most part impossible to fathom-- so you can call it chance or chaos or reason and order-- its all the same in the end.

[yar0]

I really have no set opinion on this as it seems different at various points in my life. Sometimes it seems as if something happened by total chance, luck, incident whatever you call it, like pulling a fourth ace from the deck. But other times it seems as if what I've done has been predestined and predetermined. I guess you cam apply this to marriage would someone who is married here tell us if they feel that they were destined to marry their current spouse or was it purely accidental.

[Chaigidel]

no boeng your still responsible even if god controls everything-- things change to react to determinations-- so to say if you make a choice it becomes stone; becomes immutable; your choice is layed down in the foundation of god.

[Lord Rahl]

Thing to happen for a reason. It is cause and effect. A cause is the reason. Even if something happens by chance there could still be a reason behind it. It's like me asking you, "Why did you get up this morning? Was there a reason?" and you reply, "No, it was just by chance I got up. No reason." You/people make the choice and therefore there is a reason behind it.

[Ummon]

Long live Spurius!

In any case, in today's psychology:

Behaviourism -> refuted beyond explanations of specific phenomena
Cognitivism -> problematic yet still fertile
Connexionism -> revolutionary but not yet complete

I have just mentioned the main things, left out especially Pragmatism (local although great IMHO), Psychoanalysis (hated but deeply misunderstood).

You ask my prediction? In the end it will be like with everything in science, truth is somewhere in the middle between the two main theories (which is connexionism and cognitivism).

[PacSubCom]

Schopenhauer said that we can do what we want, but can not want what we want. I'd say any non-deterministic world-view is illusion. What we call "free will" (imagine!) is only a quantum-statistical interaction of 10⁹⁹ particles and energy states. This complexity gives us the impression that chance and free will exist, but in truth it is just an evolutionarily determined adaptation to the statistical causes and effects of events, one which increases our chances of survival in just such a deterministic environment. It is our inability to collect and process the almost infinite number of past data-items that contribute to any event that creates "chance". If we were able to take it all in, we could predict the future.

[Ummagumma]

I didn't post this by myself. My history and other external influences made me do it.