talking trash; is language encoded within the junk DNA of man?

[Amorphos]

talking trash; is language encoded within the junk DNA of man?

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ci...code/index.htm

there - a proper scientific topic

[Ummon]

There is a series of misunderstandings in these assumptions, especially for what concerns the term language. It would require a complicated explanation. Overall, methods to convey information from a source to a receiver must conform to structural invariants. Junk DNA is not Junk at all, as it has various functions in regulating the genetic part, etc.

[Amorphos]

Overall, methods to convey information from a source to a receiver must conform to structural invariants.

yes i thought it may be so. the interesting thing for me is how it all connects together, perhaps there is some kind of language applicable to both?


... or did i miss the picture

[Ummon]

Necessarily, as language is order and has to be translated into some other form of order (be it neural patterns, proteins, etc.) all rules which apply to orderly structures apply to language: entropy, information, compression, etc. are derivatives of universal physical/mathematical principles or physical entities which apply to language.

[Amorphos]

are derivatives of universal physical/mathematical principles or physical entities which apply to language.

interesting! so there is perhaps a universal language, although it may only be defined in relative terms i.e. one language for one thing another for another etc.

[Ummon]

I would say that there is a set of universal properties of communication. Some of which we still don't know, for sure.

[Captain Arrrgh!]

There's no such thing as trash talk, I think you both should just stfu...

Okay, seriously. Our DNA, I think, is impervious to such things. I'm more inclined to think trash talk is similar to what Orwell defined as newspeak and what is also refered to as logic terminating cliche. They are a result of social engineering, rather than DNA.

[rathelios]

The answer encoded in the DNA is 42. Now if only we could work out what the question is.

P.S. DNA stores information. This information gives it the mathematical properties of languages. This does not mean it is actually a language.
You could rephrase and say that language contains information and so shares the properties of information storage with DNA. This does not mean that French and English are genetic material.
Eukaryote DNA comes in introns and exons. Introns get spliced out before transcription and translation into proteins in all eukaryotes. This does not mean they are junk. Read the wiki article if you actually give a monkeys.

[Spurius]

The only thing 'junk' about junk DNA is our understanding of it. It most likely serves multiple functions all at once, even. Parts of it may turn out to be absolutely crucial to our normal development.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4940654.stm

[Amorphos]

You could rephrase and say that language contains information and so shares the properties of information storage with DNA. This does not mean that French and English are genetic material

thanks for clearing it up.

is there a language of information then? if it appears as like language then perhaps it shares common factors that are like language.

[Captain Arrrgh!]

Math, I think, but cannot be certain, ie:
http://www.press.uillinois.edu/s99/shannon.html
as such that:
http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/dnanotcode.htm
Actually quite interesting, since it discusses DNA, also:

"A Mathematical Theory of Communication" C.E. Shannon 1948


as enthused by R. Anton Wilson

[Amorphos]

thanks for the links captain i shall look into them.

the thing is, we can go on to ask; what is the language of maths if math is the language behind it all.

i don’t think it is though, any construct of limits are; a. too specific [in a world without absolutes], and b. not universal enough - cannot cross their own limited boundaries especially en-mass, and cannot go to or include the infinite.

[Captain Arrrgh!]

I myself, can only stop here and go no further, when it comes to the math aspect, I simply don't know enough, but will find that book. In another area, perhaps there is more to be said for our reading of each other's expressions, energies, etc.. It is said that people who have experienced trauma in their youth are more sensitive to those around them. But this strays far from DNA and trash talk.

[Spurius]

the thing is, we can go on to ask; what is the language of maths if math is the language behind it all.

The thing is, 'you can go on to ask' - period. At a certain point you return at your own footsteps, like in the desert - you've been going in a circle.

That's one of the inherent problems of language and meaning - you go into a circle very fast.

That also has to do with how our brain works, our language dept is in the newer part, and *helps* to make sense of the world. It does not *give* it sense, however. All that jazz happens downstairs (in the limbic system) where we don't think in words, only desires and dislikes.

Which is the reason also why people with trauma are more 'tensed' - the limbic system is on hyperalert, you've been hurt, or nearly, and are in survival mode. See post-traumatic stress syndrome for the gory details.

[Ummon]

Recurrent structural patterns at different levels: a postulate of Pythagoras and Chaos Theory alike. That's what links language and DNA. :wink:

[Spurius]

Old brain surgeons' joke: [holds suction tube in brainpan, doing *slurp*]
--"Oops, there go the piano lessons!"

[Ummon]

If only the piano lessons could be circumscribed so precisely!

[Spurius]

Meh, I actually crossposted - that should have been in the other thread. Ah well, as long as you get the connection. Knowledge can actually do that. Which is why pinpointing exact memory locations is so frigging hard, if not impossible in individuals - connections have quite a bit of freedom.

[Ummon]

I would postulate that, possibly, knowledge requires the entire brain to be defined fully, although it exists in many places separately, with its many aspects.