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    the druidry thread

    i have been asked on a few occasions to do a druidry thread so here it is. you can say anything about druidry and it will be contested, many revivalists concentrate on its reverence of nature and most base there understandings on classical writings and irish myth. i think britain is the centre of druidry in a similar context to judea being central to abrahamic religions. it is in britain where arch druidry was first put forwards which spread to ireland and the continent, and it was to britain that people froma ll aver the europe came to train [mainly from gaul and iberia].
    the foundations of druidry arise from the iberian peninsula and took on many forms in the different lands it reached, it was not however a religion as we think of them today. the basic idea is to ‘take from all sources’, so the romans or greeks would see many similarities in their own traditions. in fact one of the main contributors to druidic thought was pythagoras, some say he learned about rebirth from the druids.

    for me the true understanding of druidry was entirely missed by classical writers [and invaders], so if you want to know more ask the right questions and perhaps you will see its truth forming in your mind.

    so ask away...

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    here is a more academically accepted view: [probably not though ]

    THE DRUIDIC MYSTERIES OF BRITAIN AND GAUL
    “The original and primitive inhabitants of Britain, at some remote period, revived and reformed their national institutes. Their priest, or instructor, had hitherto been simply named Gwydd, but it was considered to have become necessary to divide this office between the national, or superior, priest and another whose influence [would] be more limited. From henceforth the former became Der-Wydd (Druid), or superior instructor, and [the latter] Go-Wydd, or O-Vydd (Ovate), subordinate instructor; and both went by the general name of Beirdd (Bards), or teachers of wisdom. As the system matured and augmented, the Bardic Order consisted of three classes, the Druids, Beirdd Braint, or privileged Bards, and Ovates.” (See Samuel Meyrick and Charles Smith, The Costume of The Original Inhabitants of The British Islands.)

    The origin of the word Druid is under dispute. Max Müller believes that, like the Irish word Drui, it means “the men of the oak trees.” He further draws attention to the fact that the forest gods and tree deities of the Greeks were called dryades. Some believe the word to be of Teutonic origin; others ascribe it to the Welsh. A few trace it to the Gaelic druidh, which means “a wise man” or “a sorcerer.” In Sanskrit the word dru means “timber.”

    At the time of the Roman conquest, the Druids were thoroughly ensconced in Britain and Gaul. Their power over the people was unquestioned, and there were instances in which armies, about to attack each other, sheathed their swords when ordered to do so by the white-robed Druids. No undertaking of great importance was scatted without the assistance of these patriarchs, who stood as mediators between the gods and men. The Druidic Order is deservedly credited with having had a deep understanding of Nature and her laws. The Encyclopædia Britannica states that geography, physical science, natural theology, and astrology were their favorite studies. The Druids had a fundamental knowledge of medicine, especially the use of herbs and simples. Crude surgical instruments also have been found in England and Ireland. An odd treatise on early British medicine states that every practitioner was expected to have a garden or back yard for the growing of certain herbs necessary to his profession. Eliphas Levi, the celebrated transcendentalist, makes the following significant statement:

    “The Druids were priests and physicians, curing by magnetism and charging amylets with their fluidic influence. Their universal remedies were mistletoe and serpents’ eggs, because these substances attract the astral light in a special manner. The solemnity with which mistletoe was cut down drew upon this plant the popular confidence and rendered it powerfully magnetic. * * * The progress of magnetism will some day reveal to us the absorbing properties of mistletoe. We shall then understand the secret of those spongy growths which drew the unused virtues of plants and become surcharged with tinctures and savors. Mushrooms, truffles, gall on trees, and the different kinds of mistletoe will be employed with understanding by a medical science, which will be new because it is old * * * but one must not move quicker than science, which recedes that it may advance the further. “ (See The History of Magic.)

    Not only was the mistletoe sacred as symbolic of the universal medicine, or panacea, but also because of the fact that it grew upon the oak tree. Through the symbol of the oak, the Druids worshiped the Supreme Deity; therefore, anything growing upon that tree was sacred to Him. At certain seasons, according to the positions of the sun, moon, and stars, the Arch-Druid climbed the oak tree and cut the mistletoe with a golden sickle consecrated for that service. The parasitic growth was caught in white cloths provided for the purpose, lest it touch the earth and be polluted by terrestrial vibrations. Usually a sacrifice of a white bull was made under the tree.

    The Druids were initiates of a secret school that existed in their midst. This school, which closely resembled the Bacchic and Eleusinian Mysteries of Greece or the Egyptian rites of Isis and Osiris, is justly designated the Druidic Mysteries. There has been much speculation concerning the secret wisdom that the Druids claimed to possess. Their secret teachings were never written, but were communicated orally to specially prepared candidates. Robert Brown, 32°, is of the opinion that the British priests secured their information from Tyrian and Phœnician navigators who, thousands of years before the Christian Era, established colonies in Britain and Gaul while searching for tin. Thomas Maurice, in his Indian Antiquities, discourses at length on Phœnician, Carthaginian, and Greek expeditions to the British Isles for the purpose of procuring tin. Others are of the opinion that the Mysteries as celebrated by the Druids were of Oriental origin, possibly Buddhistic.

    The proximity of the British Isles to the lost Atlantis may account for the sun worship which plays an important part in the rituals of Druidism. According to Artemidorus, Ceres and Persephone were worshiped on an island close to Britain with rites and ceremonies similar to those of Samothrace. There is no doubt that the Druidic Pantheon includes a large number of Greek and Roman deities. This greatly amazed Cæsar during his conquest of Britain and Gaul, and caused him to affirm that these tribes adored Mercury, Apollo, Mars, and Jupiter, in a manner similar to that of the Latin countries. It is almost certain that the Druidic Mysteries were not indigenous to Britain or Gaul, but migrated from one of the more ancient civilizations.

    The school of the Druids was divided into three distinct parts, and the secret teachings embodied therein are practically the same as the mysteries concealed under the allegories of Blue Lodge Masonry. The lowest of the three divisions was that of Ovate (Ovydd). This was an honorary degree, requiring no special purification or preparation. The Ovates dressed in green, the Druidic color of learning, and were expected to know something about medicine, astronomy, poetry if possible, and sometimes music. An Ovate was an individual admitted to the Druidic Order because of his general excellence and superior knowledge concerning the problems of life.

    The second division was that of Bard (Beirdd). Its members were robed in sky-blue, to represent harmony and truth, and to them was assigned the labor of memorizing, at least in part, the twenty thousand verses of Druidic sacred poetry. They were often pictured with the primitive British or Irish harp--an instrument strung with human hair, and having as many strings as there were ribs on one side of the human body. These Bards were often chosen as teachers of candidates seeking entrance into the Druidic Mysteries. Neophytes wore striped robes of blue, green, and white, these being the three sacred colors of the Druidic Order.

    The third division was that of Druid (Derwyddon). Its particular labor was to minister to the religious needs of the people. To reach this dignity, the candidate must first become a Bard Braint. The Druids always dressed in white--symbolic of their purity, and the color used by them to symbolize the sun.

    In order to reach the exalted position of Arch-Druid, or spiritual head of the organization, it was necessary for a priest to pass through the six successive degrees of the Druidic Order. (The members of the different degrees were differentiated by the colors of their sashes, for all of them wore robes of white.) Some writers are of the opinion that the title of Arch-Druid was hereditary, descending from father to son, but it is more probable that the honor was conferred by ballot election. Its recipient was chosen for his virtues and



    THE ARCH-DRUID IN HIS CEREMONIAL ROBES.


    From Wellcome’s Ancient Cymric Medicine.

    The most striking adornment of the Arch-Druid was the iodhan moran, or breastplate of judgment, which possessed the mysterious Power of strangling any who made an untrue statement while wearing it. Godfrey Higgins states that this breastplate was put on the necks of witnesses to test the veracity of their evidence. The Druidic tiara, or anguinum, its front embossed with a number of points to represent the sun’s rays, indicated that the priest was a personification of the rising sun. On the front of his belt the Arch-Druid wore the liath meisicith--a magic brooch, or buckle in the center of which was a large white stone. To this was attributed the power of drawing the fire of the gods down from heaven at the priest’s command This specially cut stone was a burning glass, by which the sun’s rays were concentrated to light the altar fires. The Druids also had other symbolic implements, such as the peculiarly shaped golden sickle with which they cut the mistletoe from the oak, and the cornan, or scepter, in the form of a crescent, symbolic of the sixth day of the increasing moon and also of the Ark of Noah. An early initiate of the Druidic Mysteries related that admission to their midnight ceremony was gained by means of a glass boat, called Cwrwg Gwydrin. This boat symbolized the moon, which, floating upon the waters of eternity, preserved the seeds of living creatures within its boatlike crescent.

    integrity from the most learned members of the higher Druidic degrees.

    According to James Gardner, there were usually two Arch-Druids in Britain, one residing on the Isle of Anglesea and the other on the Isle of Man. Presumably there were others in Gaul. These dignitaries generally carried golden scepters and were crowned with wreaths of oak leaves, symbolic of their authority. The younger members of the Druidic Order were clean-shaven and modestly dressed, but the more aged had long gray beards and wore magnificent golden ornaments. The educational system of the Druids in Britain was superior to that of their colleagues on the Continent, and consequently many of the Gallic youths were sent to the Druidic colleges in Britain for their philosophical instruction and training.

    Eliphas Levi states that the Druids lived in strict abstinence, studied the natural sciences, preserved the deepest secrecy, and admitted new members only after long probationary periods. Many of the priests of the order lived in buildings not unlike the monasteries of the modern world. They were associated in groups like ascetics of the Far East. Although celibacy was not demanded of them, few married. Many of the Druids retired from the world and lived as recluses in caves, in rough-stone houses, or in little shacks built in the depths of a forest. Here they prayed and medicated, emerging only to perform their religious duties.

    James Freeman Clarke, in his Ten Great Religions, describes the beliefs of the Druids as follows: “The Druids believed in three worlds and in transmigration from one to the other: In a world above this, in which happiness predominated; a world below, of misery; and this present state. This transmigration was to punish and reward and also to purify the soul. In the present world, said they, Good and Evil are so exactly balanced that man has the utmost freedom and is able to choose or reject either. The Welsh Triads tell us there are three objects of metempsychosis: to collect into the soul the properties of all being, to acquire a knowledge of all things, and to get power to conquer evil. There are also, they say, three kinds of knowledge: knowledge of the nature of each thing, of its cause, and its influence. There are three things which continually grow less: darkness, falsehood, and death. There are three which constantly increase: light, life, and truth.”

    Like nearly all schools of the Mysteries, the teachings of the Druids were divided into two distinct sections. The simpler, a moral code, was taught to all the people, while the deeper, esoteric doctrine was given only to initiated priests. To be admitted to the order, a candidate was required to be of good family and of high moral character. No important secrets were intrusted to him until he had been tempted in many ways and his strength of character severely tried. The Druids taught the people of Britain and Gaul concerning the immortality of the soul. They believed in transmigration and apparently in reincarnation. They borrowed in one life, promising to pay back in the next. They believed in a purgatorial type of hell where they would be purged of their sins, afterward passing on to the happiness of unity with the gods. The Druids taught that all men would be saved, but that some must return to earth many times to learn the lessons of human life and to overcome the inherent evil of their own natures.

    Before a candidate was intrusted with the secret doctrines of the Druids, he was bound with a vow of secrecy. These doctrines were imparted only in the depths of forests and in the darkness of caves. In these places, far from the haunts of men, the neophyte was instructed concerning the creation of the universe, the personalities of the gods, the laws of Nature, the secrets of occult medicine, the mysteries of the celestial bodies, and the rudiments of magic and sorcery. The Druids had a great number of feast days. The new and full moon and the sixth day of the moon were sacred periods. It is believed that initiations took place only at the two solstices and the two equinoxes. At dawn of the 25th day of December, the birth of the Sun God was celebrated.

    The secret teachings of the Druids are said by some to be tinctured with Pythagorean philosophy. The Druids had a Madonna, or Virgin Mother, with a Child in her arms, who was sacred to their Mysteries; and their Sun God was resurrected at the time of the year corresponding to that at which modern Christians celebrate Easter.

    Both the cross and the serpent were sacred to the Druids, who made the former by cutting off all the branches of an oak tree and fastening one of them to the main trunk in the form of the letter T. This oaken cross became symbolic of their superior Deity. They also worshiped the sun, moon, and stars. The moon received their special veneration. Caesar stated that Mercury was one of the chief deities of the Gauls. The Druids are believed to have worshiped Mercury under the similitude of a stone cube. They also had great veneration for the Nature spirits (fairies, gnomes, and undines), little creatures of the forests and rivers to whom many offerings were made. Describing the temples of the Druids, Charles Heckethorn, in The Secret Societies of All Ages & Countries, says:

    “Their temples wherein the sacred fire was preserved were generally situate on eminences and in dense groves of oak, and assumed various forms--circular, because a circle was the emblem of the universe; oval, in allusion to the mundane egg, from which issued, according to the traditions of many nations, the universe, or, according to others, our first parents; serpentine, because a serpent was the symbol of Hu, the Druidic Osiris; cruciform, because a cross is an emblem of regeneration; or winged, to represent the motion of the Divine Spirit. * * * Their chief deities were reducible to two--a male and a female, the great father and mother--Hu and Ceridwen, distinguished by the same characteristics as belong to Osiris and Isis, Bacchus and Ceres, or any other supreme god and goddess representing the two principles of all Being.”

    Godfrey Higgins states that Hu, the Mighty, regarded as the first settler of Britain, came from a place which the Welsh Triads call the Summer Country, the present site of Constantinople. Albert Pike says that the Lost Word of Masonry is concealed in the name of the Druid god Hu. The meager information extant concerning the secret initiations of the Druids indicates a decided similarity between their Mystery school and the schools of Greece and Egypt. Hu, the Sun God, was murdered and, after a number of strange ordeals and mystic rituals, was restored to life.

    There were three degrees of the Druidic Mysteries, but few successfully passed them all. The candidate was buried in a coffin, as symbolic of the death of the Sun God. The supreme test, however, was being sent out to sea in an open boat. While undergoing this ordeal, many lost their lives. Taliesin, an ancient scholar, who passed through the Mysteries, describes the initiation of the open boat in Faber’s Pagan Idolatry. The few who passed this third degree were said to have been “born again,” and were instructed in the secret and hidden truths which the Druid priests had preserved from antiquity. From these initiates were chosen many of the dignitaries of the British religious and political world. (For further details, see Faber’s Pagan Idolatry, Albert Pike’s Morals and Dogma, and Godfrey Higgins’ Celtic Druids.)
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

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    Default Re: the druidry thread

    the modern 'Druids' bear about as much relation to the real historical druids as Hindus do to Evangelical Christians.
    Hammer & Sickle - Karacharovo

    And I drank it strait down.

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    mlir

    the modern ‘Druids’ bear about as much relation to the real historical druids as Hindus do to Evangelical Christians.
    ha, that is exactly what i said people would say in a recent pm .

    let me put it this way; anything they believed in that is in any way real is still real! what they saw in nature and spirit we can. behind the garbage modern hindus and christians are very similar in essence.
    basically what you are saying is that if what the ancient believed in was written down and past on, then we could be druids, yet as it has not we cannot. this would be like saying to a christian; if all bibles were burned 2000 years ago then you cannot be a chritian? i think they would only need a similarly vague idea of it as we have of druidry, and they would still be christians.

    a druid is a type of person!

    from actors to poets, artists to philosophers and doctors to scientists, they would all have been druids of one kind or another in those days. the difference is that, we may imagine that all such people in current society were also priests - in the past then of the druidic tradition.
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    MaximiIian's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: the druidry thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzalcoatl View Post
    a druid is a type of person!
    Precisely.
    The druids were a lot like the Brahmin class in Hindi society: poet, scholar, storyteller, sometimes serving in priestly and clerical functions, but mainly a scribe and intellectual. The druids formed the learned caste in Celtic society.

    Modern, or neodruidry borrow from the ideas and religious beliefs of the ancient Celts. Not all practitioners of neodruidry can be considered Druids, of course. Strictly speaking, only an ordained cleric of a neodruid organisation should be considered a modern Druid.

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    matt
    I thought druids were exclusively priests or nature-lovers (as D&D has shown us)
    not everyday people.
    not everyday just your common wierdo's lol.
    there is actually quite a substantial amount of archeology and knowledge about druidry, we know that in britain it progressed from ‘shamanism’ to an organised religion. the latter druids were a ruling philosopher class, throughout time from the original iberian colonisation the priesthood worked directly with farmers etc continually learning from distant culture [like greece was then]. just down the road from me is a road built 6000 years ago, it went along the tops of hills so that it didn’t get filled with vegetation, there were farms built before cultivation where lands were divided by earthworks to keep animals.

    maximilian

    Modern, or neodruidry borrow from the ideas and religious beliefs of the ancient Celts. Not all practitioners of neodruidry can be considered Druids, of course. Strictly speaking, only an ordained cleric of a neodruid organisation should be considered a modern Druid.
    well i am not a member of any order yet am widely regarded as one of the most advanced in the world and have been asked to write articles for books etc, yet have not for personal and ‘political reasons’. i think you know when you are a druid without being told. of course i consider myself to be the most advanced

    The druids were a lot like the Brahmin class in Hindi society: poet, scholar, storyteller, sometimes serving in priestly and clerical functions, but mainly a scribe and intellectual. The druids formed the learned caste in Celtic society.
    very much so! in fact linguistically the origins of the term brahmin had variants all across europe [even in germany]...

    here is an interesting article on the matter, concerning ‘brahmins’ linguistically and culturally, you don’t need to read it all as this and others similar basically amount to the idea that brahmins were everywhere in pre-historical times.

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    It seems that brahmin Saxons had a Druid lord, with breithanas judges, as Christians in England. The exact nature of their terms is unknown, and perhaps the words were generic back in Saxony. But the Brahmin Danu in DANUbe was a deity, as in DANAan. “Bram” /brahm/ means “reverently. state. pomp.” in Sanskrit : Persian: Russian: Polish :Swedish: German, from IE brih “praise. expand”> Brahma god as in Tocharian bramn.kte.
    In Saxon:

    1.(quote)”brehtnung, e; f. A noise, clattering, cracking; crepitus, Cot. 49.

    2. bréman; part. brémende; p. de; pp. ed; v. a. [bréme celebrated] To celebrate, solemnise, make famous, have in honour; celebrare, honorare:-Ðæt hie ðæt hálige gerýne ##bréman m?gen ##that they may celebrate the holy mystery [i.e. the sacrament], L. E. I, 4; Th. ii. 404, 27. Á brémende ever celebrating, Exon. 13 a; Th. 24, 20; Cri. 387. We ðec, ##hálig Drihten##, gebédum brémaþ we celebrate thee, holy Lord, in our prayers, Cd. 192; Th. 241, 17; Dan. 406: Menol. Fox 186; Men. 94. Bodiaþ and brémaþ beorhtne geleáfan preach and make famous bright belief, Exon. 14 b; Th. 30, 21; Cri: 483. DER. ge-bréman.

    3. bréme; adv. Famously, notably, gloriously; famose, solemniter, gloriose:-Is his miht ofer middangeard bréme gebledsod his might is gloriously blessed throughout the earth, Andr. Kmbl. 3434; An. 1721.

    4.brémen; adj. Illustrious, glorious:-##Brémen Dryhten## the glorious Lord, Exon. 54 b; Th. 193, 4; Az. 116: 55 a; Th. 194, 21; Az. 142. v. bréme.”(end quote).

    My comments:€1.brehtnung. IE brih “breathe. speak” became breithanas “judge” of “Brehon Law’. Just as IE wat “inspire” (vates. Ovate) >Ger. wut “crazy.frenzy”, so “judge” seems to heve been degraded to “noise”, by the Church.

    2.##Breman maegan## is “holy sacrament”, with maegan probably deriving from Persian magi “priest” of Brahmin-Zoroastrians. #Halig Drihten# as “holy Lord” has the Gothic treu, IE driu .
    4. “Brahmin Driut” is joined, connecting the Brahmin term with the Christian. This may mean that Saxons and Goths had some form of brahmin druidism, which transferred to Saxon Christianity. That suggests a similar pattern happened in Celtic Druidism.
    chimera

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    Last edited by Amorphos; September 25, 2007 at 09:42 AM.
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    MaximiIian's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: the druidry thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzalcoatl View Post
    well i am not a member of any order yet am widely regarded as one of the most advanced in the world and have been asked to write articles for books etc, yet have not for personal and ‘political reasons’. i think you know when you are a druid without being told. of course i consider myself to be the most advanced
    Ah. Well, I meant just within neodruid organisations. The idea changes once you look beyond modern neopagan iterations of ancient Druidism.

    Outside of those organisations, I guess it depends on how you could define a Druid. In a broad sense, a druid could be any part of a learned caste or class in their society or community; a common authority on most things intellectual, historical, and literary.

    In that regard, druidry never died out. The Roman priests were learned men who took on roles of the druids, especially with Celtic Druidic families who were given Roman citizenship. When the Romans up and left, Christian monks filled the same role: scholar, historian, and priest.
    Modern religious priests, modern philosophers, scholars, and even teachers, in Britain and other countries once inhabited by Celtic tribes, could be considered a modern continuation of what was at the heart of the concept of the Druid. They may not have the same religious beliefs as the Druids, but their basic role, and the general position of them in society, has endured.

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    That movie was awsome, and that was such a great song. Along with the one where the bass player gets trapped in his plastic case. Gotta have those amps on 11!

    I thought druids were exclusively priests or nature-lovers (as D&D has shown us)
    not everyday people.

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    Default Re: the druidry thread

    what about the very nature oriented worship of the old crimean (the cult of Diana) and old etruscan/roman religion despite its humanistic qualities retained very old marks of the religion of the penninsula -- this is evident in the cult of janus and the cult of artemis/ and the cult of dioynisius(sP)

    the rituals of the bacchanals and of the high priest of janus-- both smack of much older nature worshipping religions-- would all nature worshipping religions such as shinto and those ive mentioned be qualified as druidic?-- or as you said do you think it is a thing of the british isles having to do with totally different things?--

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    Garb, it is sad that when the performance achieves the level of "oh, how interesting!" the cutter showed no mercy.
    Last edited by Blau&Gruen; September 25, 2007 at 03:35 PM.
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    Default Re: the druidry thread

    would all nature worshipping religions such as shinto and those ive mentioned be qualified as druidic?-- or as you said do you think it is a thing of the british isles having to do with totally different things?--
    excellent point chai

    well druidry was continental more than british, what we think of as ‘british’ druidry was actually a mixture of the iberian celt cults and druidry. so basically you have the religion of the stone circles etc then druidry was imported, then british druids invented ‘arch druidry’ where they had like an arch bishop of the druids - hence the term ‘arch’ bishop is used today just as we still use the term ‘bard’.

    as we see there is much changing and blending going on over time, and all religions around the world were very similar in those days, i often find similarities with ancient china and druidry.

    the shinto thing is interesting because of the cult of the sword in druidry; i don’t know much about the continentals but british druids built many sacred bridges to the centre of lakes for the purpose of casting a treasure to the heaven below! the irish had a similar tradition as both the britons and irish were descended from the same wave of iberians - hence the cult of dana.
    the druids centre was of course at anglesea just off the welsh coast and was kinda central to england and ireland.

    arch druidry then was what took the nature cult and formed it into something unique - a proto religion perhaps.


    edit; i thought i would add this from the knowledge thread;
    by knowing the name of something one could have power over it, the druids for example had two names for everything, you would have a word for ‘wind’ and another secret word for giving possession of the wind. somehow knowing the exact self description of a thing gives one power of manifestation over it, so gods were considered to be such masters in creating existence.
    Last edited by Amorphos; September 25, 2007 at 01:46 PM.
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    Default Re: the druidry thread

    Besides Wales there are no Druids any more, nowadays. And even they are more a classicial approach to the subject. Down here we have still people (in the highlands) who predict each year the regional weather, or who speak blessings to the cattle. In that sense this world has not entirely vanished. Other than the neo Druids in the Bretagne, they do not walk around in costumes.
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    Default Re: the druidry thread

    Besides Wales there are no Druids any more, nowadays.
    erm there are far more outside of wales > the future arch bishop of Canterbury is a druid ordaned in the gorsedd of ...um can’t remember lol. there are many thousand in new zealand and australia not to mention a sizeable group in europe. i have links with groups from holland and germany to america where there are probable most druids.

    And even they are more a classicial approach to the subject
    true mainly, but some of them are proper druids. there would only ever have been a few actual druids around, most are bards or ovates.

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    i think druids have remained throughout time, later they were often known as cunning men or even witches and wizards etc, the artist william blake considered himself to be a druid. interestingly sir winston churchill was a member of an order although it was rather like a masonic lodge.
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    Default Re: the druidry thread

    That is something I do not know. It is rather likely that the stream of traditons of this institution was interrupped with the Romaization as the Druids are an upper social stratum phenomenon and the upper class has adapted rather fast (within 200 years) to the new way of life. They were also the first to become roman citizen. I think the gallo-roman cultic places where served by priests who were members of civil associations rather than members of the former druids. That does of course not exclude that in peripheric areas some of the old ways and customs stayed alife. My concern was in that case more that the periphery is normaly socially not so stratified that there was much place for a group of people who does anything besides producing the necessary food. - Only some reflections.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: the druidry thread

    They also enjoyed putting slaves to death as a method of prognostication, I hear. Good fun.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: the druidry thread

    there seem to be alot of connections between the aboriginal religions of south america and druidry -- the tossing of valuables into the water; the offering of human sacrifice(willing)-- (if in fact bogman was a druidic ritual killing)

  17. #17

    Default Re: the druidry thread

    max

    In that regard, druidry never died out. The Roman priests were learned men who took on roles of the druids, especially with Celtic Druidic families who were given Roman citizenship. When the Romans up and left, Christian monks filled the same role: scholar, historian, and priest.
    interesting point and to a degree true. apparently in the early stages of roman rule there were two schools, the druidic school was frowned upon and to advance in society one would have to take the roman route to knowledge. it is widely accepted that many druids did take both this and later on the christian paths/schools. the schools themselves were very different though.
    whilst it is true to say that most druids were simply learned gentlemen it is important to note that like with the Brahmin caste in india, some were held in special reverence this is where we differentiate between a druid proper and a bard or ovate. eventually it was only the bardic class that remained as romans and christians both hated druids.

    ...could be considered a modern continuation of what was at the heart of the concept of the Druid. They may not have the same religious beliefs as the Druids, but their basic role, and the general position of them in society, has endured.
    yes, many elements remained throughout history. similarly some of the rituals have remained in one form or another e.g. dancing around the maypole - an ancient communal marriage ceremony.

    cluny

    there is no evidence of human sacrifice or prognostication of humans - only of animals. yet i expect that in times of great upheaval they may well have resorted to such things. it is clear though that this kind of thing belonged to an earlier era and philosophical understanding, in gaul for instance containers of roman wine were broken open as a sacrifice, and Scrying from pools or bowls of water became the accepted means for divination amongst the ovate class in most celtic lands.

    chai

    yes i have noticed many similarities with the south americans, there is a theory that according to a toltec legend people came from the west bringing great wisdom, somehow archeologist linked that info with a now sunken stone circle off the channel islands and the people thereof [i.e. britons of some kind].

    the bogman or lindow man was more likely to have been a ritual murder than a sacrifice perhaps between rival druids, it is thought that the victim was himself a druid as he had no scars of battle!

    -----------------------------------------------

    let me put forwards some sayings that i think sum up druidry, we should note that druids proper were not like any other priesthood and their religion very different too - even though it appeared to incorporate many religions. the romans made the mistake of thinking they could simply categorise the druids and they would go away, when in fact they understood nothing of it.


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    generally i think the more ancient druids did perform human sacrifice but this is not fundamental to or even part of the religion itself, it has more to do with customs and traditions.
    it doesnt matter as we have no bible we can and always have debated and changed over time.




    thanks for replies.
    Last edited by Amorphos; September 26, 2007 at 03:27 PM.
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

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