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  1. #1

    Default [Crusades AAR] The Turks (No Roleplay)

    EDIT: IMAGES REMOVED TO FREE UP SPACE FOR CURRENT TURKISH AAR, IT'S A REBOOT ANYWAY.

    Molina's AAR was a nice change of pace and while I enjoy Byzantium as much as the next person I thought it was time to take up the challenge of the Turks. No one has done one here yet and I've heard a lot about the difficulty of this campaign on various boards. This is meant as a bit of a mirror to Molina's AAR--the other side of the story if you will. As with that one there will be no role playing here: just my thoughts and impressions.



    Game files modded to show turns as years, and alter the timescale so 1 year = 1 turn, which is how I usually play M2TW and Kingdoms campaigns.



    Just what the Turks need: ANOTHER type of useless horse archer. They now have four different units. Honestly--do we really need a unit between Sipahis and Turkomans? How about some decent low level spears? Or light cavalry with lances? You know, something I could really USE? Plus they have reduced Sipahis arrow attack a bit but they are just as pricey. Passive rage. Anyhow, I've tried a M/M campaign as the Turks earlier and was really overwhelmed with the enemy armies. I've since successfully completed campaigns with Antioch (M/M) and Byzantium (H/H). How will I fare on H/VH?

    The Lands of the Seljuk TurksHey... I don't have Edessa! That's not very historically accurate... The Seljuk Turks conquered it in 1144. When I conquer it maybe I'll rename it Sanliurfa out of spite.

    As you can see, while the Turks have a good stretch of land, they lack coastal cities and are cut right in two by Antioch and Rebel Provinces. Priority Number #1 is to reduce the threat of Antioch. In all the campaigns I've played, Egypt kept Jerusalem on the defensive so I'm hoping that happens again. I don't convert cities and castles very often as I hate having the time and money spent on upgrades wasted, hence I'm going to play with the settlements I've been given as I've been given them.

    One final note for terminology, it seems obvious but as the Turks in the GC I made 3 types of armies: Field Armies made up of horsed archers, archers a few spear units and a unit or 2 of heavy cavalry, Siege Armies loaded with artillery, spears and heavy infantry with a pair of missile troops to conquer cities, and Mixed Armies for exploring the unknown regions of the map so they can deal with anything that comes their way.

    1174 (Turn 1)
    25,000?! That is a lot of money to start out with. Yet there are so many complaints about the paucity of Turkish funding. As per usual I manually control all my settlements and order the construction of roads or low level mosques that I can build in one turn. Baghdad is the exception as I know that it'll grow too fast and get angry unless I start building higher level buildings in it. As assassins actually work in this game, the few settlements that already have roads and mosques get Shisha buldings so I can start knifing those annoying priests.

    I am already at war with half the factions on the map. Scanning the troops I have to start out with I see that I have a rather huge number of horse archers draining money which means I need to either disband them, or start running around getting into field battles. Neither option fits with my preferred play style but it should make killing off those slow moving Crusader armies a very long though doable process. From past experience with higher difficulty levels the only way I can survive is to strike at my enemies as hard as I can from turn 1 if possible. As long as I can keep them from besieging my settlements I should be able to concentrate on the real threat, Rūm, for they also are an annoying horse archer faction.

    I am also hoping to see the awesome-looking Hasham in action from the other end of the sword.



    What am I doing here? I am concentrating all the armies I have at my disposal. I've seriously considered abandoning the two farthest west Turkish cities (Doryleum, Amorium) to the Byzantines while I hold off the Greek legions with my field army made up of archers and Horsed Archers. I'll fight for those towns, but not very hard. While one army heads south to the castle on the sea coast, the other will buy a few turns of time with field battles. I am going to beat Antioch into submssion quickly before turning on Byzantium with everything I've got--at least that's the plan.



    Some cities are already angry about it.



    While you can't see it in this picture as I've shifted the army north, Baghdad is currently in a state of blue disillusionment which needs to be fixed as that is currently my capital and is the Turkish Power Center. However, besides stability in the capital, my longer-term goal in the east is for Ekmel to get to Yerevan and it's stupendously lucrative mines as the Turks bleed money in the early game. On the way I aim to conquer the cities we travel through, hence the large number of good infantry and spears. In the northwest, Nuraddin my Hero General is putting together a field army. As (according to the manual) his Light of Faith ability increases attack speed and morale, I hope he will badly hurt the Antioch forces in the field and threaten Edessa.

    Hey, I figure if history can call Saladin, Saladin, I can call Nur-ad-Din Nuraddin.


    Turkish Lancers charge a company of Byzantine Sword-Ninjas
    Last edited by SSJPabs; October 07, 2007 at 07:42 PM.

  2. #2
    The Mongol's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Crusades: The Turks AAR (No Roleplay)

    Cool stuff, love the "Byzantine Sword Ninjas"

  3. #3

    Default Re: Crusades: The Turks AAR (No Roleplay)

    1175 (Turn 2)
    Uh oh, down to 8000 for this turn. Not that 8000 is being broke but to go down that much in one turn is worrying. The first thing that greats me from the action icons is:


    Hmm, a barely there commander with above average loyalty and only slightly pious. No, no I think not. Nuraddin (and myself) can certainly do better. Perhaps after some more battles we'll need more generals but for now we have five or six, enough to lead every army.


    Nuraddin called a Jihad? When did this happen, I thought I was Nuraddin!? My Imam can't even call a Jihad! Well at least we got some more troops out of it, hope they're not just wimpy archers. Looking at the armies I notice that while there are several units of archers and horse archers, there are also units of those Ghazi axes and that Mutwati's (spelling?) with the clubs. Both have had their stats altered from the Grand Campaign, weakening the Ghazi's significantly.


    One of the angry cities from the last turn, Doryleum, is rioting. I'm not too concerned as it's only a meat shield against the Greek Emperor, but I produce a unit of town militia to calm it down anyway. I had already recruited a unit from the angry city in the picture above, Kirsehir, so that one did not riot.


    My assassins remain busy west and east as this example shows. This is a high priority for me because it means I can keep my troops in the field where they excel rather than trapped in the cities policing the streets.


    This turn is where we finally start to get some action going. First up is Kirkuk. Kirkuk is an oil-rich city in northern Iraq that may be a catalyst for Kurdish separatism. Currently however, it's the first stop on Ekmel Erkal(Urkel?)'s journey to Yerevan. Heavily out numbering the defenders I decide to build some battering rams and prepare to assault the city next turn. However, the real action is happening in the Central Lands as the two stacks mentioned in the Jihad Video are in perfect position to attack Antioch. However they could also attack the super-rich trading city of Adana on the southern Anatolian coast to the west. A city I got to over 10,000 with a turn playing as Antioch.


    Deciding I can't afford to pass up the chance to hurt Antioch and as per my original goal, I lay siege to the city. Just to the east another of my generals, Jalal, is laying siege to the wooden fort of Aleppo. Unfortunately there are some rather large stacks of Principality troops just south and west of Aleppo. If they decide to try and break the sieges of their settlements I could be in trouble. While my usual method is to starve out large city garrisons I click on the cities to find a very interesting sight:

    This army frightens me, in a city

    Prince Bohemund III is in Antioch with a tough looking army.


    And his son and faction heir, presumably Raymond of Tripoli is in Aleppo.

    Now isn't that interesting. I choose to build multiple rams, ladders and a few siege towers just in case the Principality doesn't attack me on their turn.

    A band of time-traveling Janissaries put Dismounted Knights of Antioch to flight

  4. #4

    Default Re: Crusades: The Turks AAR (No Roleplay)

    Very nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garbarsardar View Post
    BTW, ferrets54, you are a pedophile.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Crusades: The Turks AAR (No Roleplay)

    1176 (Turn 3)
    Ouch. 500 in the hole already. Not that 500 is too bad but looking at the financial chart it seems that I'm looking at 5000 next turn. The only action icon of note this time is an adoption icon.



    Now this person looks far more promising. Since I'm fighting the Byzantines and Antioch I can't afford to turn down talent when it comes calling so welcome to the tribe Uthman.

    The other rather important thing that happened this turn was something that didn't happen. Neither garrison in Antioch of Aleppo sallied out and neither of the Principality armies nearby tried to attack me. I am now free to attack them--but first I need to do a bit of house keeping in the rest of my empire.



    In the west my armies are finally together and while General Arslan heads south over the mountains, my other army moves west to blunt invading Greek hordes and finds... the Byzantines! The empire has some troops near Doryleum but as you'll note, they are carefully staying on their side of the line. However I run out of movement points before I can reach them. Guess that will have to wait for next turn, so I head back to the east.



    The assault on Kirkuk begins. Only some minor documentation here as I know you would rather hear about Antioch.



    Suffice to say I entered both gates when the enemy sortied against my rams and they fled back to the central square where upon I rushed them from both sides.



    Then proceeded to thump them with Hashams and Saracen Militia, and that worked out pretty well.



    Leaving the Kurdish auxiliaries in possession of Kirkuk in a nod to the modern situation, Erkal continues on his travels to Yerevan. Now for the real fight.



    As you can see, while there is some army massing by Antioch one of its stacks hares off to the east for some reason (I am too far from Edessa to threaten it with Nuraddin). The others are still sitting outside the "redzone" of the city battles so now is my chance. This is lesson #1 in how to win as the Turks.



    As you can see I have brought a lot of knives to a gunfight in the hope that I can prevail. I have built 2 rams and 2 ladders.

    The Jihad troops are the first to reach the walls with the ladders when I find a curious thing. I am making the major assault against the north wall while attacking the west wall of Antioch with 1/3 of my army. On the western side while there are a unit of Hospitaller Sergeants and Sodeer archers there is nothing else.



    Needless to say I run into the gate. Not long after this my general in charge of the fight, Captain Uthman, was killed by boiling oil as he entered the western gates.



    As I force my way to the square in the west, I set up some spear militia on the road and behind them my 'archers of Turkey' stand and shoot arrows into the mass of Principality soldiers. Normally this causes the AI to charge with cavalry, but my spears in defense mode prevent that allowing the archers to exhaust their entire stock of arrows killing many, MANY Knights of Antioch without retaliation as long as I target the horsemen. At the same time more northern forces are also entering the square. What you cannot see here is that in addition to the 2 units of Edessan Squires and assorted mounted Knights, two units of Hospitaller Sergeants have taken up a position at the south end of the square. Strangely my western forces though smaller did much more damage to the army of Antioch than the larger northern division.

    Eventually I run out of arrows and have to charge the square.

    The Edessan squires do terrible damage to my troops. Nothing I have can hurt them very much and they keep routing my exhausted troops. I am losing so many units I am forced to send in the archers who have no more arrows to shoot as emergency ground forces. They are followed by the few Turkish Javelin men that aren't routing. At this point I manage my main objective of this fight--conquering the city itself is of secondary importance.



    The Faction Leader is killed. This has no morale issue however as the enemy troops are already making a stand in the square.

    As my reinforcements begin to filter in from the other army, I realize that Antioch could defeat the forces in the city and then I'd have to assault the gates all over again. This is not looking good. Desperate to avoid that particular indignity I order the reinforcement army Horse Archers against the final Hospitaller sergeants who randomly route two of them in the first seconds after they reach the square.



    Finally, FINALLY it is over. Because of graphic limitation I play on small unit side, and as you can see it cost me an enormous amount of troops anyway.



    The city is sacked in revenge.



    Antioch is mine but one more fight remains and this one should be a lot easier...






    ...and it is.



    Read it and weep Crusader fans, we are now down to 2 Muslim states against 2 Christian States and I now have a large number of fat rebel cities for the taking at my leisure as long as I hold off the Byzantines. Incidently Jalal gained the Tooth of Muhammad for taking Aleppo.



    In the aftermath, Nuraddin (who enjoys eating watermelons) moves on the small formerly-Antiochan town of Diyabakir which is on the way to Edessa, while the armies that won in Aleppo and Antioch decamp, heading south to capture Homs and Krak Des Chevaliers before Jerusalem does. Since these are rebel garrisons and reduced by the desertion bug, I leave enough troops in Antioch to prevent rebellion until they are suitably converted to Islam. If I hold on in the west, I may make Antioch my capital as it is centrally located on the map.

    As an aside I feel bad for Nuraddin that he hasn't even had a fight yet.


    Legendary Greek Firethrowers turn the tables on some Saracen Militia with a European commander--cries of 'but you're not real!' did not demoralize the Byzantines
    Last edited by SSJPabs; September 15, 2007 at 12:56 PM.

  6. #6
    Eddard's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: Crusades: The Turks AAR (No Roleplay)

    Nice job of destroying your main opponent in three turns. What's your next target, Byzantium or Jerusalem?

  7. #7

    Icon14 Crusades: The Turks AAR (No Roleplay) Turns 4-5

    1177-1178 (Turns 4-5)
    Antioch is dead. But the Turks have other challenges ahead and the one I'm most concerned about is money. We have extremely low monetary reserves and I need to conquer more regions and sack cities.



    Nuraddin has finally reached the little town he has been slowly traveling towards and besieges it. While General Arslan in the west is now only one more move away from besieging the castle of Attaleia. This will greatly facilitate my conquest of the seaboard of south central Anatolia and that means money. Erkal is also slowly moving towards Tabriz in the east.

    There are only two other notable events that occurred this turn.



    That is for your grandmother's incessant prating about the 'Panoply of War' on my loading screens. It seems like every other screen is that one.



    This is big trouble. The Kingdom of Jerusalem has besieged Krak Des Chevaliers and it looks like they will take it. Having a fortress on my southern border, even if that fortress is owned by a neutral is not a good idea--especially if you just massacred that neutral faction's ally. But I'm all out of moves, so it's time to hit that hour glass and hope.



    After the turn changes I finally get Nuraddin into a battle. While the Sultan has the option to attack at night there's no need for that against these troops.



    As is quickly becoming my favored tactic when not having siege machines, I assault the east and west gates of the town. Having two gates to defend the AI defends neither and instead retreats to the square except for a single unit of peasant archers on a side street. As my Hashashim units deal with them, the rest of my army attacks them from both directions and I call upon Nuraddin's Light of Faith (which is what his name means) and I can see my troops start to attack much faster, finishing off resistance. That will be useful in a pinch, especially with the already fast animations of the Janissary units if I can keep him alive that long. The result is an easy win.



    Nuraddin's model is very nice. Better than Manuel, Richard or Phillip's. I find it grandfatherly and gruff, but also bad ass. But then I haven't had a grandfather since I was 3, so what do I know?





    Nuraddin moves on to attack Edessa, also an easy looking win. Erkmal is also approaching Tabriz at last and will reach it next turn. That unit following him is a pair of Sipahis for a little extra punch. Arslan besieges Attaleia. No matter what happens I should get two settlements next turn.



    I also finally fight the Byzantines! This is a small force so I'll almost surely win. This battle is notable in that the Byzantines had a very gentle but high hill in there territory that they could have shot me to pieces from as I struggled to climb it, as I was the one attacking. But instead they met me on the plain. While I could chalk it up to dumb AI, I also think the insane morale bonuses the AI gets on VH battles make it willing to make stupid moves like that.



    Another easy win.



    For those wondering who I would go after next, this is the answer. Krak Des Chevaliers has fallen to the Crusaders and I must get it back. Though I really wish I didn't, I declare war on the Kingdom of Jerusalem. I may have moved too fast, not allowing them time to move their forces south and into full engagement with Saladin's Egypt. I've encountered this problem before when wiping out a faction by turn 3 in the Grand Campaign.

    Notes: I have days off from class on Thursday and Fright so I actually started the AAR Thursday which is why I have so many updates. I'm not actually doing the playing right now, just the formatting as I have all the pictures. I'll probably have one more turn 6 update this weekend but then it'll have to sit for a while.


    The Turks prevail in a battle started by a careless remark about who has the pointier hats
    Last edited by SSJPabs; September 15, 2007 at 11:54 PM.

  8. #8
    Paul d's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Crusades: The Turks AAR (No Roleplay)

    i say both... hehe

  9. #9

    Default Re: Crusades: The Turks AAR (No Roleplay)

    Nice, I was impressed by the number of updates before I read that last sentence!

    I'm enjoying your comments about the gameplay, quality work.

    "No friend ever served me, and no enemy ever wronged me, whom I have not repaid in full." - Sulla

  10. #10
    Tajir's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Crusades: The Turks AAR (No Roleplay)

    Very nice AAR. +Rep!


  11. #11
    CtrlAltDe1337's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Crusades: The Turks AAR (No Roleplay)

    I'm playing the Turks (H/H) atm and I'm finding it pretty easy. I've killed Philip and crushed most of Antioch's armies. They only hold Antioch, Edessa, and Diyabakir. I'm doing well against the Romans in the West and Venice is about to appear. I thought this was going to be harder? Maybe whent he Mongols show up it will get even more interesting.


  12. #12

    Default Re: Crusades: The Turks AAR (No Roleplay)

    @Crucifix: Are you playing at the default 2 years per turn? If so the pace is very much different. You could also be a better player than me. I am have never played online and consider myself a mediocre to good player at best.

    @All: Thanks to everyone for enjoying the AAR, my first one. Also Molina what do you mean by game-play elements, my tactical/strategic commentary?

    Finally, things were at such a decisive point as I'm a bit ahead of the AAR, that I actually got up a few hours early on a Sunday to play a few rounds to see how it all turns out so you'll be getting more than just 1179 today. Unfortunately as I was out all day after this it's break time. Sorry 1179 is kind of lack luster, the next few turns will be quite exciting.

    1179 (Turn 6)
    As turn the year 1179 rolls around the thing that first catches my attention are the action icons.


    First, Arslan is offered a princess and I accept as he has been a pretty faithful general, next is the more familiar adoption screen.



    While not a brilliant commander by birth there are a lot of good traits here, especially the Siege Expert and Drillmaster. Movement points are highly valued, so I accept. I also note that I will not be brining up declined adoptions, only good ones. As I rarely adopt it shouldn't be too many.



    Moving from East to West in terms of open fights, we have once again a fight with the Byzantine Empire that results in a Clear Victory.



    While I keep winning, my forces are slowly being whittled down. Eventually I will need to produce more armies in the west as my spies indicate some Byzantine activity north of the Ankara/Sinope border. But I am still strapped for cash though as you can see I have a positive cash flow.



    As you can see here, the newly wedded Qilich Arslan is attacking Attaleia. As this is the westernmost fortress on the mainland bar Smryna, I intend this to be my western boundary for a while. In addition, it can also watch the approaches to Nicosia in northern Cyprus which I suspect the Byzantines will take soon as it has a high Greek population and Antioch is not around to reach it. I have to win the siege first, not a problem with that army.



    This is the appearance of my typical "siege army" though it has rather more javelin men than I would wish. I almost always subdivide by unit type. The other general is named Mustafa and he is a useless fop. That is, he has 6 loyalty but zero of anything else. He is my wrecking ball to get Arslan more stars.



    A clear victory and sack, but still... 189 is a lot of dead Turks. I need those Turks. What happened here is that the AI blocked both ends of the square with infantry sticking the horse archers in the middle of the square so they could shoot me over the heads of their men. As I only had javelins I could not reach them in time and so they caused a lot of casualties. It is my own fault for not including archers--I normally include 2 units worth but the money situation prevents it.



    Next up is the battle for the mighty fortress of Hospitallers, Krak Des Chevaliers, retaken by the Muslim forces in history only by trickery. Unfortunately while I would like to show you this fight for some reason my computer kept crashing. I tried three times even with low settings. It's not a graphic bug, as I have played larger siege battles than this without any problem but suffice to say I was forced to restart and auto-resolve it.



    Hey good job AI! I might not have done as well myself.



    Once again I must sack for cash. As I prefer playing the benevolent overlord to keep the veneer of diplomacy going (once I controlled over 30 regions as Milan and had "Very Trustworthy" status) that is not an option here. I am making all the horror stories the Crusaders told of Turkish barbarity true in this campaign.

    Unfortunately the next siege, that of Edessa by Nuraddin, I somehow did not have pictures for no matter how hard I looked, though I do have the result.



    Nuraddin moves on farther south to reinforce the forces that captured Krak des Chevaliers but not before sacking the city for over 7500 florins and receiving the Key to the Holy Kaaba.



    As both sieges are now done I take the armies fresh from those sieges and push them on to my next targets, Alanya to the west of Attaleia to conquer the coast, and Tabriz, only one city away from Yerevan!


    The Crusaders learn that constant charging is not good policy
    Last edited by SSJPabs; September 16, 2007 at 07:28 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Crusades: The Turks AAR (No Roleplay)

    Turn 1180-1181 (Turns 7-8)
    Small but meager cash presents itself to me yet again in 1180 AD.



    These guys are very useful and the ones I got in my army from the start are slowly losing troops. As such, I decide to accept the guild in Baghdad, never a particularly wealthy province for me. Merchant houses will definitely be built in coastal or mining centers, but inland I can afford religious or assassin buildings.



    As you can see there are several things happening in this picture. The Byzantine scout force in the northwest worries me because it could mean that a stack or two are headed my way. I am reforming my troops rapidly from my mobile army in the west but I just can't afford to produce heavier or even spear troops for it, not and still take regions. Gambling I keep it the way it is. Then there is the Plague Rat of Doom up in Iconium. The last thing I need is for a fortress to lose population but at least it's just a few turns and not the waves of the real plague. The third is the small force rushing to join the garrison at Alanya. It consists of spear units and a hasham which will be quite useful against the Horsed and Foot Archers in Alanya. As it cannot reach the army I will not be taking it until next turn.

    Though unfortunately I forgot to grab a photo, Jerusalem has besieged the Rebel city of Homs before I could take it with a rather strong army. Clicking on the army I see that it has 6 units of heavy cavalry and several spear units. That is not something I can go up again, not without Nuraddin leading my best troops in the area and even then it will be a hard fought battle.



    On a happier note, Tabriz is finally ready to be conquered. As you can see I have some heavy troops, spears, and archers. A balanced force. As per usual I assault two gates, the east gate and the south gate.



    The South Gate is forced without resistance strangely, except for a single unit of archers to the side while most of the HAs in the city attack the East Gate where my spear units rip into them. This means I can engage all the foot troops and archers at once preventing any annoying pin-cushioning as in the battle at Attaleia. As you can see this leads to a quite last stand for the last of the troops.



    This one is much less sloppy than the last. However there is no sacking this time as the amount would be so pitiful even I don't need the scant 200 or so florins.

    1181 (Turn 8)
    This is a watershed year.



    I am stunned. Bribery. The Byzantines bribed one of my cities. I haven't even neglected it. It's still growing to the point where I can put a wooden wall around it instead a palisade. I've never ever seen that before in any Medieval 2 game. Obviously this speaks volumes about my monetary situation and my pride is stung.



    I take it out on the Byzantines. I forgot to screen capture the results of the battle, but I totally destroyed their army (enemy forces melt away) and lost 113 men as the enemy general unit caught one of my foot archers units alone. I'd already killed the general decimating my spear militia in the process, but it didn't matter the rest of the unit still did some damage.



    This is why I have been unable to reinforcement my troops in the west. I had to put together an army to besiege Cesearea. This is key fortress and I will be in real trouble of the Byzantines capture it. I intend to starve it out as it has a considerable garrison. Once I capture it I can use it to support Ankara and use it as a base to threaten Corum and Sebestea, as I believe the Byzantines will have one and perhaps both by the time I conquer it and make it productive.



    At the end of the turn this is the situation in the south. Jerusalem took Homs with a huge force and Nuraddin and some of my assorted infantry left overs along with some hashams and spear units are laying siege to the place. In addition I am training a unit of Dismounted Sipahi Lancers and another Hasham unit to reinforce the armies around Homs. The unit outside Krak des Chevaliers in the west is made up of three generals units (the Faction Heir and several of the adopted generals) as well as 4 units of Siphais and 4 of Turkomans. The Jerusalem force on the coast is made of up city-troops such as Genoese and Pisan Sailors and Syrian Militia so it should be easy to charge them. As I'm all out of movement point I can do nothing more. If I have anything left at all after Homs, a doubtful proposition based on the cavalry inside, I will see about going after Tripoli or Balbek to the south.

    At this point I am convinced the Kingdom of Jerusalem is crushing Saladin which I had not expected and could be trouble However I don't know what trouble is, not until I click that hourglass...

    ...but on the Byzantine Empire's turn they don't let me rest. The army that just won the battle of Amorium is attacked!



    I am in trouble. Clicking on Valsamon's army shows me in addition to his general's unit:
    • Trebizond Archers x 4
    • Archer militia x 2
    • Vardariotai x 3
    • Town Militia x 3
    • Spear Militia x 5
    • Byzantine Infantry x2
    It appears I am going to lose this battle.

    As the battle begins I set up near the rear of the map. There is a sculpted hill there (it's square) with some roman ruins on it where I place my few foot archers and spear men along with Lachin Kavur. The enemy can come straight up it, but it's steep. On the wings stretching out to either flank I place the horsed archers while 2-3 units of the strongest and most experience are right behind Kavur.

    The horse archers race forward engaging the Byzantine Vards and the Byzantine ground troops who, while delegating the Vards to deal with my Horse Archers, come right at Kavur among the ruins with everything else. My archers are shooting with the units of HA's I have behind me but there are far, far too many troops with the spear militia advancing just ahead of the archers. However I manage to spot one of the Byzantine Infantry units out a ways from the spears and rush Kavur's unit on them, killing them in a charge. However in making sure I kill enough of them so they route all the way off the field, Kavur is caught by a unit of town militia and suffers 3-4 casualties to his unit before he breaks away.

    By this time several units of my Horsed Archers on the wings are idle and behind the main Byzantine army, so naturally I order them to hit the spearmen and weaken them while the front facing HA's and regular archers aim at Valsamon's General Unit. I also realize that the second unit of Byzantine Infantry is tangling with a HA unit and while the HAs are losing they are busy for the moment.

    As the Byzantine spear militia crest the hill at last Valsamon himself rides ahead of them intent on butchering my few ground troops. As he is doing so I regroup the Kavur unit and charge Valsamon from his right flank. As luck is with me I am in excellent position to take advantage of the cavalry weakness of being unable to attack forward. He is largely stuck while my own unit begins to kill off his body guards, still he gets them turned around in time and Kavur's bodyguards also start falling. He is down to 5 men and it looks like he will be dead soon so I try to kill the enemy general.

    As Valsamon is down to one other bodyguard, a Byzantine spear militia unit charged Kavur from the left flank and I think it is over... and then Lachin Kavur kills Valsamon, the enemy general. In the cutscene I see the spear militia rushing around the horses as Valsamon falls at their feet.

    They break. Having their general fall at their feet to a by-this-time gold chevroned Turkish killing machine is too much for them. As I order Kavur's unit to destroy them I realize the horse archers are idle again and I order them to charge the nearest Byzantine units they can find. I'm feeling good about the account I've given of myself but there are still several units left in the field and my Horsed Archers are all nearly out of arrows. Some are out already.

    When they hit the archers and spear militia from the rear they start breaking and a message pops up.



    I freeze. I won? I WON! It's a mass chain-reaction route! I choose to continue and the remains of the Turkish army descend upon the terror stricken Byzantines from all directions. My Turks rode all over the map, killing Byzantines at will. As you can see in the picture I'm running on fumes by this time.



    The army is totally destroyed and I get the crossed swords marker. Amorium remains Turkish and the turn ends at last.

    I find this is a good place to stop with a great Turkish victory that absolutely crushed the Byzantine armies in south central Anatolia. A note about Lachin Kavur--at the start of the game he had no battle attributes but now he has 5 stars and 3 skulls and with a rebuilt bodyguard he is triple silver chevroned.


    In this reenactment of Amorium Field, Turkish horsemen scatter Greek Archers like so many spooked bunnies

    Edit: Thanks Molina, I get it now. There are definitely a few tricks where I abuse the engine. I've had to learn the hard way as Venice not to crush Milan in 3 turns or rapidly expand in all directions. The AI factions completely panic.

    Edit2: Ah, I just realized that Amorium in that pic is Byzantine. What happened is that after the first battle, the troops from the city joined us and were slaughtered so the city ended up being empty and I didn't notice. Thus when the Byzantines attacked, they passed one unit through the city and back into their army, taking it but also leaving it undefended. After the second battle, I took it back at the start of 1182 (turn 9).
    Last edited by SSJPabs; September 16, 2007 at 09:39 PM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Crusades: The Turks AAR (No Roleplay)

    I was talking about the game mechanics comments:
    I may have moved too fast, not allowing them time to move their forces south and into full engagement with Saladin's Egypt. I've encountered this problem before when wiping out a faction by turn 3 in the Grand Campaign.
    Since these are rebel garrisons and reduced by the desertion bug, I leave enough troops in Antioch to prevent rebellion until they are suitably converted to Islam.
    Every comment you make is very useful and insightful, hopefully my AAR is half as clean and pleasant as yours

    "No friend ever served me, and no enemy ever wronged me, whom I have not repaid in full." - Sulla

  15. #15
    Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Crusades: The Turks AAR (No Roleplay)

    I think I'm starting to like this kind of AAR.

  16. #16

    Default Crusades: The Turks AAR (No Roleplay)

    Yes it's that time again, updates. Big ones. Beginning this turn I have also standardized my in-battle pictures. With exceptions they are now going to be at 700x300 in size.

    1182-11189 (Turns 9-16)

    1182 (Turn 9)
    No action Icons this time.



    During the last turn, Erkal had reached Yerevan and laid siege to it (sorry I forgot the picture I will better organize in the future). This turn I will finally take the settlement and all those lovely mines that has been one of my goals since the opening turn.



    The battle is swift and vicious and the enemy stands no chance.



    An acceptable price for Yerevan.



    The other major battle this turn is Alanya to capture more of the coast.



    This battle is unremarkable except that while I attacked 2 gates, the AI chose to utterly abandon one. Both enemy units in that picture are retreating letting me into the city with almost no resistance--the towers did not even shoot arrows at me. I find this a questionable decision.



    It doesn't slow me down as I conquer the city.




    This is a picture of my income for the end of 1182, as you can see I have finally climbed out of the money pit that is the Turkish situation. It has taken some chancy field battles and constant expansion but I have done it. The problem here is that now, Baghdad has grown enough to become a Huge City and I will need to spend 25000 on Walls a Sultan's Palace and finally a Great Bimaristan or it will get angry and riot.

    1183 (Turn 10)
    As this turn begins I get an action icon offering me a mission to strengthen the garrison of Aleppo and receive 1000 florins. It's not much but I can do it easily by shifting troops from Antioch--which I made the new Turkish Capital this turn.



    A useful subordinate with the all important Night Fighter trait--I doubt he'll stay chivalrous long.



    Looking back at the Southern Situation image above, you'll note is has the tag 1181. Yes I took it on turn 9 as the situation did not change between 1180 and 1182. It will now as I attack the small Jerusalem force to the west pillaging my coasts.



    And I do mean small.



    Well what did you think was going to happen? The gentle rolling hills of the coast mean my all cavalry army has an extreme advantage in mobility and shock charges.

    1184 (Turn 11)



    Now that is an unpleasant development--and after I fought a great battle for it too. Still I hadn't been developing it as I wanted it as a shield. That shield is now gone, but with Iconium and Attaleia mine I should be able to hold the line against the Byzantines in the west for now.



    Curious as to the results of my last Auto-Resolve decision I decide to see what would happen at Homs. I can promise you that I would have done much worse than the AI in terms of losses (the Auto-Resolve does not take into account the defenses of a settlement) but it is rather humiliating.



    Regrouping from that battle I take all the forces I can spare from Holms and assault Ballbek to gain a Fortress Frontier against Jerusalem. The forces from the battle west of Krak des Chevaliers besiege the considerable Tripoli garrison. Those troops are mostly cavalry forces and they will not be attacking the settlement instead starving it out.

    1185 (Turn 12)



    As you can see this is going to be an easy fight.



    A picture perfect spear charge as Prince as Salih's forces look on.



    Mostly to practice my castle and fortress taking skills.



    This is the situation in the south after the Ballbek victory. Tyre is weak but there is a large force of heavy cavalry (visible thanks to my spy) just aching to break the siege. I decide that I need to build defensive lines and take those two provinces out east that I've surrounded (Kermanshah and Van) as they both have some mines. Conquering those two towns will also set me up to contest the Byzantine provinces along the northern coast shortening my front and removing Trebizond the lynch pin of Greek defenses in the east.



    As you can see I need to take care of the east fast because the Byzantines are stirring again in the west.

    1186-1189 (Turns 13-16)
    Shockingly nothing happened during these turns. No action icons, no missions, almost no attacks. All I did was retrain troops, form new armies and the Byzantines and I chased each other all the western regions of Ankara, both sides too wary to attack the other. Nuraddin however did begin his march to the city of Adana reaching it in 1188 and laying siege to it.



    There was however one battle, Caeserea. I had moved one of the adopted Generals up north to take command from the captain.



    Captain Bayezid had a decent enough force for a castle garrison...




    ...and commendably sortied out...



    ...but was slaughtered anyway.

    During these turns Jerusalem did send several forces north but they were mostly town troops with an occasional heavy cavalry. I wondered why they were expending so much effort against me and if Egypt was on the ropes. The turn before I took Caeserea (that is, 1188) I was able to get map information from them.



    I needn't have worried. I'm becoming a bit concerned about Egypt as a threat however, both Nuraddin and Saladin knew they'd have to fight each other someday.


    Naffatuners always perform more beautifully at night

  17. #17

    Default Re: Crusades: The Turks AAR (No Roleplay)

    Great AAR, nice read - you should do content-writing for some mod, man.

    My favourite faction so far, too - I only restarted my campaign after blitzing the Antiochs, it's more fun to have them develop a bit - I've NEVER been so far in the red in ANY campaign I can remember - took me quite a bit of effort to subdue Antioch and Jerusalem, with the Byzantines also harassing my *ss, was an all-or-nothing campaign so far, marvellous (VH/VH) - and now the Mongols arrive, and Egypt will eat the rest of Jerusalem, and I cannot be everywhere. Oops, more fun.

    One of the most challenging factions, if you give the AI a few turns to get its act together, even for the most jaded campaigner a good test of your abilities.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Crusades: The Turks AAR (No Roleplay)

    Thank you Spurius. What do you mean content writing? Just curious, as I'm not too familiar with the modding community.

    If the Turks weren't as spread out I'd probably go more slowly, I prefer the increased challenge as well but with the money problems... I don't dare risk it on Hard mode, as my usual difficulties are M/H or M/VH except for my better factions. I've never been able to beat a VH campaign without giving myself a boost of 2-3k florins, not even as Spain my best faction--just too many armies coming at me. You'll also notice I've given the Byzantines more time to prepare playing primarily defense against them while developing my lands so hopefully they'll be able to provide some challenge. That I've used no artillery at all also ups the challenge level. It's hard to find that sweet spot between the H campaign and the VH campaign.

    Anyhow I should have 1 more update tonight and another large one tomorrow before going quiet for a bit.... so comment people! We need to get this to page 2 as there are too many pictures on 1 page as it is!
    Last edited by SSJPabs; September 19, 2007 at 04:39 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Crusades: The Turks AAR (No Roleplay)

    Well, I think a LOT of mods like a good story with their faction presentation. It's like placing them firmly 'on the map', and you could be one of the people designing the initial family trees etc, set up events, things like that - the final touches of the campaign map - often overlooked, no time. Make it into a nice story. Also all the stuff at the campaign intros, texts for promovideos etc etc.

    Anyway, not everyone has a knack for writing, and you do.

    Adana is better even than far Yerevan, those mines will come in time IMO. Move your capital there asap, makes a lot more money per turn.

    Invest the whole kaboodle you have at gamestart in training good troops, make a few roads already maybe, but invest the rest in mercenaries in turn one. This will send you hugely into the red for 10-15 turns, but you can whittle your armies away like that, and have enough to spare while you take a few key cities.

    Let Baghdad rebel, retake and sack it. 20 K in the bag. Take Nicaea, it's easy, and make a small fleet and hop over to Byzantium and totally r*pe it, I mean destroy every building. Enjoy the huge dip in their faction statistics while you get a bit of breath. Leave it, and reinforce Niceae again. Keep them weak.

    Play mean. It's VH/VH, no quarter given or asked...
    Last edited by Spurius; September 19, 2007 at 06:04 PM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Crusades: The Turks AAR (No Roleplay)

    Ah I get it now. Well if any mods are interested I wouldn't mind helping out in some limited fashion. I've always enjoyed writing stories.

    1190-1196 (Turn 17-23)

    1190 (Turn 17)

    This turn things are looking up for the Crusader States at last.



    Unfortunately since Antioch is a memory, Phillip II decides to turn around and go home. He doesn't even appear. Too bad. Richard however lands not far from Tyre and Acre.



    After several turns of siege, Nuraddin is finally ready to conquer Adana and unify the Turkish dominions after nearly a generation of war. I decide to be ruthless to the city. Nuraddin is already malevolent, let's try to get to Lord of Terror shall we?



    Sensitive to losses from the archery towers my Saracen spears are sent in after the rams at a discreet distance.



    With this many soldiers and some expendable troops in the Town Militia, I take a page out of the Byzantine Empire's book and assault the town on three sides. It was only a matter of time until a ram broke through the gates--only the AI decided to sortie out.



    Even letting the Turks in the gates was a mistake, they quickly swarm the square from three sides and slaughter the rebel garrison with the aid of the Light of Faith. That's Nuraddin up in the front there, blood thirsty old bugger that he is. I lost about 300 men in this fight, mostly the Jihad units and the town militia, who were almost totally destroyed accounting for 200 of my losses.



    Perhaps emboldened by the arrival of their Great Captain, the Kingdom of Jerusalem tries to break the siege of Tripoli. Being outnumbered I let them and they empty the city to come after me. I hire several mercenary troops and rush all my newly created Dismounted Sipahis and Hashams into the army to give them a good fight.



    The Kingdom's army is a good one though, loaded with heavy cavalry, Templar Spearmen and even a few Unhorsed Crusader Knights. I rush the Turks to the high ground barely beating Jerusalem to it. As it is I do not have time to get into battle formation before they attack me and any battle plan is tossed out the window in favor of a bloody brawl. As to why I can hire Christian mercenaries, I figure they want to be on the winning side and not slaughtered. But it still seems odd that these poor Crusaders would fight for the "evil" Turks.



    Unfortunately the general I rushed forward was killed. It was very strange, one moment he was in the midst of archers hacking away with the arrows of my own Sipahis raining down on him the next he was dead. I am fairly sure it was friendly fire that did him in. This battle is clearly turning into a debacle.



    Happily, the other side can also make mistakes and their general is caught out in the open.



    Surprisingly, the AI troops didn't break when their general went down instead rushing forward intent on avenging him according to the announcer guy. Turkish soldiers against Templars, that's what we played this campaign to see isn't it? No regrets.



    This fight was a debacle. Over 40% losses, a general dead (he was my secondary general) and Tripoli has to be besieged all over again. You can't win them all but Jerusalem bought themselves some time for Tripoli... or maybe not.

    After the fight I notice Tripoli is almost unguarded. With what's left of my troops and after instructing Krak des Chevaliers to make more I besiege Tripoli after the battle.



    Regardless of losses a contiguous Turkish Empire is a satisfying sight.

    1191 (Turn 18)
    This turn I reveal another embarrassment.



    This is notable because it's the first betrothal of one of my female family members in the game. Otherwise the guy is just a regular bureaucrat... but he's loyal and I like that.



    Now it's time to take Tripoli, defended appropriately enough by Raymond IV of Tripoli. But wait, the observant among you will look up to my opening posts and say then who the hell is this? That is my embarrassment. That person seems to be Raynald of Chatillon. Because Raynald was faction heir I assumed it was a typical CA historical mistake--but I was wrong. For those not wanting to click on the link, in Kingdom of Heaven Raynald is the guy who Saladin guts after King Guy gives him the water after the Battle of Hattin. So anyhow this is the REAL Raymond of Tripoli I'm taking on. On a final note, it might actually be Raymond III of Tripoli and not Raymond IV, but at this point I honestly cannot tell. I hate either as the Turks however and will soon be rid of them.



    While the usual battering ram shenanigans follow, I also send my understrength mercenaries up along the walls on ladders as this picture illustrates. Both the Swordsman and Axemen are good on the walls. I am impressed with their efforts against greater numbers of Templar soldiers.



    To cover up my shame at the mistake, I brutally murder Raymond of Tripoli whichever number he is when he rushes to the gates to hold the line.



    While this may seem like a solid win it's not. When Raymond was at the gates he routed two of my Dismounted Sipahis and one of my Hasham units. In fact several units were on the verge of routing until I threw my general into the fray. It was a near thing, he almost caused a mass route of my infantry units. Tripoli is finally mine.



    In the west I decide I need to take out some Byzantines and use my most experienced generals to lead a stack against a Byzantine strike force.



    See that arrow? There's something special about it--it's got death written on it.



    Lachin Kavur, the Great Hero of Amorium is dead. Damn. He was a good general too, around since 1174. From a stray arrow.



    No amount of dead Byzantines can replace a good general like Kavur.



    This is the last monetary screen I plan to show you. It's just to alert everyone to the fact I now have regular amounts of money as the Turks.

    1192-1195 (Turn 19-22)
    Another stretch were only a few things happen.



    My first swordsmith's guild. I longed for these guys in the Grand Campaign as the Turks. The Janissaries will be unstoppable now I hope... when I can afford them.



    Qilich, the general 'Who Got Lachin Kavur Killed' (really it was my fault) finds a replacement. Fickle of him, but not a bad set of qualities. Marks of War means he's a little tougher than usual, hopefully it will take 2 stray arrows to kill him.



    Ha! Hey he got 2 extra years of life. Barbarossa died in June of 1190.

    I am also sending a force of Byzantines to Van--but I forgot to take pictures of that.

    1193 (Turn 20)



    Uh oh. Where did they come from? That's not good. I'm not sure I can defend from the Byzantines along the entire north-south border too. I have already dispatched one of the Generals from Aleppo with a few troops and gathering expensive mercenaries on the way. They are just outside the shot to the west.

    Nuraddin also is now ready to expand some more, in potential revenge for Diyabakir, he is heading north to Malatya.

    1194 (Turn 21)
    The Byzantines retreated when they saw my mercenary army coming after them and I followed them into the mountains. Weird. Nothing else happened this turn.

    1195 (Turn 22)



    Nuraddin besieges Malatya. My Mercenary army chases the Byzantine forces into the northern mountains playing cat and mouse. Meanwhile my troops take the city of Van and again I forget to take a photo. That's what I get for playing a round early in the morning before class.

    1193 (Turn 23)



    This seems to be a harbinger of unpleasantness. Italian factions are always very underhanded.



    If reinforcements are coming to help the Crusaders, then it's time to get some more land. This is going to be a slaughter of Byzantines.



    Nuraddin harangues the troops. Yes I know, I staged a photo.




    The enemy general dies providing another excellent photo op.



    My forces surround the last archers and hack them to bits.



    I sack the city because it's mostly Orthodox by now--though not for long. Following his triumph in Malatya, Nuraddin heads south and east towards Mosul to pick up some troops to take Kermanshah against the edge of the map. As this is the new border between myself and the Byzantine Empire I leave the rest of the army here as a garrison.



    The Endless War against the Byzantines continues. I fight them on their lands so I don't have to fight them on mine.



    This is why I love the Turks. When you build masses of Horsed Archers and charge them forward in a wave it's a moving sight.



    It's a pretty tough fight. The Byzantines had a hill and this time, miracle of miracles, they stayed on it and made me come to them.



    I am rather proud of the Turkish Empire at this point and with Egypt crushing Jerusalem I am free to concentrate on the Byzantines and come up with a rather wild idea: Why not take Trebizond?


    The Turks resist as fiercely as if the Knights of Jerusalem were selling
    insurance...

    Last edited by SSJPabs; September 19, 2007 at 10:41 PM.

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