--- RS2 SUMMARY ---

[Spartan_Shame]

I propose that in this topic, in one post we write down every aspect we have agreed on for RS2, and info on each aspect. That way, we can all see what needs to be done/decided, and once we get the ball rolling, dvk has a clear sight of everything that needs to be changed.

dvk, just post after this post, and then delete this one, so yours is first, then update it every time something is agreed upon.

[dvk901]

The most important thing I need...and I needed it 'yesterday'....is a unit roster for Pontus, Seleucid, Sarmatia, Sparta, Egypt and Pergamon. We have agreed that these factions needed reskinning, but in the process of removing old units and adding new ones, these factions have been stripped almost bare....or not much has been done on them (Sarmatia).

Tone is working on a unit roster for all of these...or all factions that need help.....but the major delay here is that we haven't come up with what these factions need in a way I understand. If I knew what units were to go in, then I could make 'dummy' units, with descriptions and code to match a unit that WILL go in, so that when it comes time to add the new skins and models, the code is already done.

As it is, I'm constantly having to take too many things 'apart'...without enough 'putting back together'. I hope that makes sense, because it's my biggest problem right now. I'm not always understanding what people INTEND for me to do, so I assume....and you know where that goes.

Another reason this is very important is because the Free and slave factions, as well as mercs, all depend on the 'main' factions for their units. So I can't put any slaves on the map, or fill out the Free people rosters because I don't know what the main factions will have. Consequently, the east especially is a mess.

So, would someone take charge of this, and compile it all in one place by faction?

All I need is something like this:

Seleucid:

Hoplite Militia
Levy pikeman
Median pikeman
Assyrian better pikemen
Babylonian great pikemen
Seleucia elite kill everything pikemen
Palestinian Peltast
Sand Thrower
Arabian Accurate Archer
Cavalry
Cataphract Cavalry
Horse archer Cav
Garish Looking Elephant Stomper
Armoured Cav archer
General
etc.

I think you get the picture? All I have to do then is make up something to fill that 'hole', and when the time comes to add the REAL unit it will be there.

[Spartan_Shame]

For every faction? If there is a topic where rosters are discussed, this should be no problem for me.

[DR. Hobo. PHD.]

every member of the team should take a faction that has not had major work done on them, for instance, sarmatia, seleucids,parthia, armenia, scythia already have done, so what else would we need:
ptolemies
pontus
romans
boii
belgae
arverni
bosphoran kingdom
getai
sparta

i really dont have the faction list, but you get my point, anywho, one person could take a faction or two, and research them, find thier starting locations, any findings that we could use, like things depicting how they fought ect...
also they can gather names, find out who thier rulers were ect..

[swhunter]

Ill Take Sparta
do i make a list like this ? i will update it with correct names. what names do i use? the old ones here on RS ?
Can please let me know if i need to add or subtract from this list.
Infa.
1. Hoplite Militia ( Shield, Spear Overhand, Sword, heavy cloth, heavy leather
2. Hoplite lite unit ( Shield, , swordsman spear,heavy cloth, lite armour, rivets)


3. Hoplite Heavy unit ( Shield, Long spear , phal. sword,)

4. Elite Hoplite Spartan ( Shield, Over hand spear,heavy armour, Sword )

5. Spartan slingers ( Shield, sword, cloth armour )

6. Spartan Peltast ( Shield, Sword, lite mail armour )

7. Spartan Royal guard ( Shield, Sword, Heavy armour, short spear )
Cav.
8. City Cav. ( Spear, Lite leather amour )

9. Lite Cav. ( spear towers, Shield, mail amour )

10. Heavy Cav. ( from Athens ) Long spear, heavy armour, shield )

11. General guard heavy ( Long spear, breastplate armour over heavy leather )

[rory o'kane]

i'd lean towards giving peltasts leather armour. i don't think the greeks were very big on chainmail, were they?

[tone]

That sort of thing although details like what sort of shield units have is helpful, what sort of sword/spear. Also what current model, if possible, they can use....from looking at the recent previews.

The other thing to consider is what role if any, classical hoplites with large shield and short spear should have...or should all hoplites be pikemen or carry thureos (iphikrates hoplites)?

[dvk901]

I'm sorry Spartan....I seem to have hijacked your thread.....guess I didn't know what you meant.

[Spartan_Shame]

I'm sorry Spartan....I seem to have hijacked your thread.....guess I didn't know what you meant.

lol, it doesn't matter. I was thinking more along the lines of

Starting Date:

Loading Screens:

Faction Symbols:

etc, and then when each is completed or decided, we can round it off saying done and ready, so in effect we have a general idead of what we have to do.

[cherryfunk]

Not to keep harping on XGM, but they have a great Greek roster that we should look at for our 'swap' Greek factions.

I'm working on the 3 Celtic factions and the German, but I'm still confused on how many units could be available to multiple factions. tone says just a couple and dvk seems to imply more than that. For example I'd like to create some units representing tribes that aren't 'real' factions, for example the Helvetii and Insubres, that could be recruited by all Celtic factions but only in certain regions.

[dvk901]

Not to keep harping on XGM, but they have a great Greek roster that we should look at for our 'swap' Greek factions.

I'm working on the 3 Celtic factions and the German, but I'm still confused on how many units could be available to multiple factions. tone says just a couple and dvk seems to imply more than that. For example I'd like to create some units representing tribes that aren't 'real' factions, for example the Helvetii and Insubres, that could be recruited by all Celtic factions but only in certain regions.

Here's the deal....in DMB.txt you have a 'model' to which 'textures' are attached to make a unit work in the game. There are 21 possibilities for textures to be attached to EVERY model.....one for each faction. So, 21 factions x 255 models = 5355 possible units.

Now, obviously, some of these would make no sense...like 21 different skins for each legion....and there is a limit in EDU.txt of 500 different units. The real limitation then is 500. Here's an example of how this can work:

type bosporan_hoplite
skeleton fs_semi_fast_spearman, fs_s1_slow_swordsman
indiv_range 40
texture greek_cities, data/models_unit/textures/tone/cityhop/bosporan_hoplite.tga
texture numidia, data/models_unit/textures/tone/cityhop/bosporan_hoplite.tga
texture pontus, data/models_unit/textures/tone/cityhop/bosporan_hoplite.tga
texture macedon, data/models_unit/textures/tone/cityhop/bosporan_hoplite.tga
texture seleucid, data/models_unit/textures/tone/cityhop/bosporan_hoplite.tga
texture armenia, data/models_unit/textures/tone/cityhop/bosporan_hoplite.tga
texture carthage, data/models_unit/textures/tone/cityhop/bosporan_hoplite.tga
texture egypt, data/models_unit/textures/tone/cityhop/bosporan_hoplite.tga
texture britons, data/models_unit/textures/tone/cityhop/bosporan_hoplite.tga
texture slave, data/models_unit/textures/tone/cityhop/bosporan_hoplite.tga
model_flexi_m data/models_unit/SoR_Athenian_Hoplite.cas, 15
model_flexi_m data/models_unit/SoR_Athenian_Hoplite.cas, 30
model_flexi_m data/models_unit/SoR_Athenian_Hoplite.cas, 40
model_flexi data/models_unit/SoR_Athenian_Hoplite.cas, max
model_sprite 60.0, data/sprites/greek_hoplite_spartan_pylos_sprite.spr
model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5

The Bosporan Hoplite 'model' (the .cas file) is just one set of files, but in this case the texture is used 10 times to give 10 different factions the ability to recruit that unit. In this case, the textures are all the same...but they don't have to be. Each one could be different....different shield design, different colors, etc. So from one entry you could have 10 different looking Hoplites if you wanted Tone skinning until he's 90!.

As it stands, this unit has an entry like this in EDU.txt:

type bosporan hoplite
dictionary bosporan_hoplite ; bosporan Hoplite
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type Heavy_1
soldier bosporan_hoplite, 60, 0, 2.4
officer greek_standard
officer greek_officer
mount_effect elephant +3, chariot +3, horse +3
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, very_hardy, power_charge
formation 1, 1, 1, 1, 8, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 27, 13, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.85
stat_pri_attr spear, spear_bonus_6
stat_sec 21, 3, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.65
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 12, 36, 9, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 2, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 2, 0, 0, 0
stat_mental 26, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 0, 700, 140, 70, 100, 640
ownership britons, greek_cities, pontus, armenia, carthage, numidia, egypt, macedon, seleucid, slave

One unit with 10 texture possibilities, used by 10 different factions. But you COULD split this into 10 totally different units if you wanted to make 10 different textures, and then name all the Hoplites differently. The extreme you could take this too is to give this model 21 textures, give it to every faction as a separate unit, and then choose ONE of the textures and give that to all 21 factions as another unit.....so 22 possibilities from one model.
But it would get a bit redundant, so you wouldn't want to do that a lot.



Here's another example where the model will be used differently:

type eastern_heavy_archers
skeleton fs_s1_archer, fs_semi_fast_dagger
indiv_range 40
texture romans_brutii, data/models_unit/textures/tone/armenia/eastern_heavy_archer_armenia.tga
texture armenia, data/models_unit/textures/tone/armenia/eastern_heavy_archer_armenia.tga
texture egypt, data/models_unit/textures/ferres/unit_roman_auxillia_archer_brutii.tga
texture merc, data/models_unit/textures/ferres/unit_roman_auxillia_archer_dacia.tga
texture slave, data/models_unit/textures/ferres/unit_roman_auxillia_archer_dacia.tga
texture seleucid, data/models_unit/textures/ferres/unit_roman_auxillia_archer_scipii.tga
texture pontus, data/models_unit/textures/ferres/unit_roman_auxillia_archer_brutii.tga
texture parthia, data/models_unit/textures/ferres/unit_roman_auxillia_archer_scipii.tga
texture numidia, data/models_unit/textures/ferres/unit_roman_auxillia_archer_brutii.tga
texture carthage, data/models_unit/textures/ferres/unit_roman_auxillia_archer_scipii.tga
texture macedon, data/models_unit/textures/ferres/unit_roman_auxillia_archer_brutii.tga
texture greek_cities, data/models_unit/textures/ferres/unit_roman_auxillia_archer_scipii.tga
model_flexi data/models_unit/eastern_heavy_archer_high.cas, 15
model_flexi data/models_unit/eastern_heavy_archer_high.cas, 30
model_flexi data/models_unit/eastern_heavy_archer_high.cas, 40
model_flexi data/models_unit/eastern_heavy_archer_high.cas, max
model_sprite romans_brutii, 60.0, data/sprites/romans_julii_roman_archer_auxillia_sprite.spr
model_sprite seleucid, 60.0, data/sprites/romans_brutii_roman_archer_auxillia_sprite.spr
model_sprite egypt, 60.0, data/sprites/romans_brutii_roman_archer_auxillia_sprite.spr
model_sprite merc, 60.0, data/sprites/romans_brutii_roman_archer_auxillia_sprite.spr
model_sprite slave, 60.0, data/sprites/romans_brutii_roman_archer_auxillia_sprite.spr
model_sprite numidia, 60.0, data/sprites/romans_brutii_roman_archer_auxillia_sprite.spr
model_sprite armenia, 60.0, data/sprites/romans_brutii_roman_archer_auxillia_sprite.spr
model_sprite pontus, 60.0, data/sprites/romans_brutii_roman_archer_auxillia_sprite.spr
model_sprite parthia, 60.0, data/sprites/romans_brutii_roman_archer_auxillia_sprite.spr
model_sprite carthage, 60.0, data/sprites/romans_brutii_roman_archer_auxillia_sprite.spr
model_sprite macedon, 60.0, data/sprites/romans_brutii_roman_archer_auxillia_sprite.spr
model_sprite greek_cities, 60.0, data/sprites/romans_brutii_roman_archer_auxillia_sprite.spr
model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f

This is a unit based on the Roman Archer Auxilia. By simply using the same texture several times, or making new ones, you can give this to many factions. The Romans will use it as the Archer Auxilia, the Armenians will us it as their 'Heavy Archer', Merc Syrian archers use it, Slaves, etc.

So let's say you want faction 'X' to be able to recruit unit 'Y' when it captures region 'Z'.....this unit for instance:

type barb_warguard2
skeleton fs_s1_semi_fast_barbswordsman
indiv_range 40
texture germans, data/models_unit/textures/tone/germans/celt_wguard_germanii.tga
texture scythia, data/models_unit/textures/tone/scythia/celt_wguard_sarmatia.tga
texture romans_julii, data/models_unit/textures/tone/germans/celt_wguard_germanii.tga
texture thrace, data/models_unit/textures/tone/britons/celt_wguard_free.tga
model_flexi data/models_unit/celt_wguard.cas, 8
model_flexi data/models_unit/celt_wguard.cas, 15
model_flexi data/models_unit/celt_wguard.cas, 30
model_flexi data/models_unit/celt_wguard.cas, 40
model_flexi data/models_unit/celt_wguard.cas, max
model_sprite 60.0, data/sprites/barb_warguard_sprite.spr
model_sprite scythia, 60.0, data/sprites/dacia_barb_warguard_sprite.spr
model_sprite thrace, 60.0, data/sprites/dacia_barb_warguard_sprite.spr
model_sprite germans, 60.0, data/sprites/britons_barb_warguard_sprite.spr
model_sprite romans_julii, 60.0, data/sprites/dacia_barb_warguard_sprite.spr
model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f

Currently, 4 factions ARE using it...but you can make this a 'Slave' unit available for them by adding a slave skin, a Merc by adding a Merc skin, or give it to all the other factions just by adding a skin.....and many could be different looking skins based on the same model. The only real limitation is in EDU.txt where you can only list 500 different units.

By adding textures to this last example, you could give it an entirely different name from the one used by the factions listed there, control it with an AOR, and...well, etc. etc. So although the number of 'slots' in DMB.txt is limited to 255, you can use them 'creatively' to create up to 500 distinctly different units.

[cherryfunk]

Okay, so we can give them different textures and names, can we also give them different stats?

My thoughts are, since we have essentially 3 'clone' factions of Celts, which will have maybe 80% of their units the same basic thing (i.e. light spearmen, heavy swordsmen etc.), that we can individualize them both by having different skins and slightly different stats.

So the Arverni might be the 'offensive' Gauls, they have higher charge bonuses and better armor. The Belgae are the 'skirmisher' Gauls, they have more 'fast' and 'hardy' units, and more javelins. The Boii are the 'defensive' Gauls, slightly better armor, less charge than the Arverni but slightly better morale, so they can fight toe-to-toe a bit longer.

I also think we need to use the BI formations to further personify these rosters -- more Belgae units can swim, since they're lighter and a bit wilder; more Boii units can schiltrom, since they're more defensive; more Arverni units can shieldwall, since they're a bit more organized, etc.

[dvk901]

Someone can put those formations in there if they want...Angel maybe....but as I've said quite a few times, I do not recommend playing this mod with the BI.exe. It is buggy. There are others, LT1956 included, who also have experienced this 'bugginess' with BI.........random, unexplained CTD's. You'll be playing along...not necessarily in a battle or anything, just anywhere, and all of a sudden, "Welcome to Windows"! I don't appreciate that, so I'm not inclined to favor it.

OR, am I wrong in this? How many others have played this mod with BI to be able to report something??

[Drtad]

OR, am I wrong in this? How many others have played this mod with BI to be able to report something??

I have played RS with only BI and it works fine. I have only had one CTD, and that was with an earlier probably buggy version...

[cherryfunk]

Huh, I always play with bi.exe, and I don't think I've ever had a CTD with RS...

[swhunter]

Ok.. So where do i get this current list of updated Spartan faction units ?
I was just putting out what DVK wanted.
I could use some help, So show me where is this list and ill do it.
I have no clue how many infa and cav. and ect. that the Spartans will have.
I know one thing for sure they didn't have Cav. heavy or lite, or archers.
so could they just have 4 levels of hoplites, then on to spear throwers,
to slingers, and to recruit mercs through their Generals,
Maybe two or three types of spartan city hoplites,
and two elites, The regular Spartans, and the royal Spartans,
anyhow just throwing some ideas out...

[cherryfunk]

swhunter, you know the Greeks pretty well, what do you think of the XGM Greek roster?

[swhunter]

swhunter, you know the Greeks pretty well, what do you think of the XGM Greek roster?

First of all i started playing my first Modd with XGM.
And loved Dimebaghos ideas. Being new to RTW at that time, and haveing
just dail up. Was the only Moddi played.

I know they are changing off and on on their units.
but i do like their line up. Except being Vanilla.

Ill go there to see what they have now .Its been a few months since.



http://www.dimebagho.tk/

This gives the lists of units in the Greek City states units in XGM
I must say some of their units arent bad are very close being historical.

See Read me / and then faction guide.

[dvk901]

Hmmm...OK, I stand corrected. Must've been a buggy install.

[wynofthetim]

i use BI version and i have yet to have a CTD
have however noticed that greek swordsmen have a shieldwall ability... which is brilliant for me, great for defending flanks on phalanx heavy armies
But the image for the icon to command this special ability is either an odd pink square that is larger then the given circle for it or is the symbol for abandoning siege equipment. i have screenies which i will edit into this post or put in a new one when i get more time