Illyrian Project approaching completion. One man's journey

[Ferrus]

While waiting for Dime's minor settlements to be implemented and prometheus cities, i abused my uni net once again and downloaded RTR to see how 'real' it was. Then I was drawn to a beautiful faction symbol of a pegasus and thats how i was introduced to the Illyrians. Reading their brief historical texts and unit card info, I must say that I was quite hooked. Escpecially when I started researching them on the net. However, I was kinda disappointed with their unit skins and models, and one thing kept bugging me. For some reason it didnt feel like xgm....

Then the thought hit me! How bout creating a faction of Illyrians in XGM! (a plunge into insanity I must say if i knew what I was getting myself into). Besides as a kingdom (when it was finally deigned that by Bardyllis) they serve a more proactive role in the time frame of xgm than bactria at the moment(though i still like them). A kingdom formed of clan, tribes and minor kingdoms, they have a national occupation of piracy in the Adriatic, Killed King Perdiccas III of Macedonia in battle (which the Illyrians won by the way) defeated Phillip II father, conquered most of macedonia and forced annual tribute from them. They even conquered Epirus albeit briefly but this one act allowed Bardyllis to gain thousands of hoplite panopoly and began training his tribesmen in their use. Years later, Polybius writes of a remarkable ambitious landing by the Illyrians whom show discipline and efficiency disembarking as well as in their surprise attack from a supposedly barbarian force.

Instead of requesting Dime to do more work since he has done alot lately, I found it unreasonable to ask for the creation of a new faction since he has already created two. Besides, its better to do it oneself and see it realised than having the possibility of Dime rejecting it. And its a nice learning experience so that maybe one day I might give the xgm crew a hand. At the moment, I have;

Based it on XGM Version 5.5.5

Based it on the romans_scipii

Created the Kingdom of Illyria (or Empire as Bardyllis cheekily states), which consist of Salona and Aemona.

Created two garrisons (minus historical units. Just moved the roman armies)

Replaced all the wolfshead symbol with that of the pegasus in stratpage02.tga and sharedpage01.tga (nicked from RTR but hey, at the moment its for my own personal use. If the Illyrians ever get included into XGM proper, then I might have to ask permission then)

In decr_names.txt i gave the romans_scipii their own faction format based on the greek names. (Have as yet to see if their children will have greek names)

In descr_sm_factions.txt turned the culture line into greek.

Replaced roman rebels in expanded_bi.txt with Illyrians.

And used the macedonian generals, spies, diplomats to replace the Roman ones. (for cosmetic purposes, needs redefining)

All this took me nearly 9 hrs of hair tearing as I learned slowly how to use Photoshop, dealt with ctds on a constant basis (and fixed the problem without knowing how), learning tutorials in scriptorium and all this for mainly cosmestic purposes and to give the Illyrians a Homeland. I have as of yet to deal with buildings as I decided i needed to rest and study at least a little bit for uni but my plans for the Illyrian army at the moment consist of;

Illyrian Army list:

Main Advantages: Low upkeep cost for army and for bireme (represents piracy). Faster moving infantry
Disadvantages: No known artillery pieces. Vulnerable to calvary in early stages?(should say lack of calvary)

Illyrian Hoplite: Shieldwall, Overarm attack, no armour/light armour. High Morale., Move fast. Militia Barracks.

Illyrian (Agema?)Hoplite: Shieldwall, Overarm attack, standard armour, higher charge?(represent ferocity), Higher morale. Standard cost as greek hoplite? City Barracks.

Clan Warband: Shiltrom, standard spears attack, no/light armour. Normal morale. Move Fast. Barracks


Illyrian Peltasts?: Standard as XGM. Militia barracks.

Illyrian Heavy peltasts: Close combat capability? City Barracks

Calvary: Light….. heavy? City barracks.


These two units are as of yet unknown/undecided.(Something was needed to filled the royal barracks and I read that axes were quite common among Illyrian warriors or something like that)
Illyrian Axes: Royal Barracks, Heavy armour,
Illyrian Lancers: Royal Barracks, Vague copy of companion calvary? Bah

NO phalangists…Levy phalangites perhaps? If so, Royal barracks(to represent sufficient urbanisation and the adaptation of ideas from their neighbours. Illyrians did serve under Alexander after all). Carbon copy of Macedonian except for having better morale.

Am going to download 3dmax or whatever the program was to deal with models but the main problem right now is that I dont know what an illyrian warrior looks like, what their equipment looks like, dont know how to alter the flags in the strategic maps and battle map (the tutorial was quite vague) and a severe lack of information. All i know about their settlements was that one was under going urbanisation before they were conquered by rome. I do know that there are some units i would like to nick from xgm:diadochi and chop/reattach heads, recolour textures but was wondering what the etiqeutte is for using someone elses models? And also wondering if the equipment would even be correct though I dont want to get too detailed and accurate.

So yeah, any info would be helpful and I wouldnt mind some1 showing me how to alter the flags on the strategic and battlemap. Will update on progress if any1 is interested. Oh yeah, any advice on how to go about creating a faction would be helpful too. Preferably in what order to tackle it.

[Locky]

Illyrian Thorakitai would also be another type of soldiery.

[Ferrus]

Been feverishly trying to get the damn battle banners to work but for some reason it doesnt want to show, so I am slightly ticked. I spent nearly 3 hrs of my life trying to figure out photoshop and messing around with it only to have it not working is really upsetting. But oh well, here's a very rough work done on the Illyrian banner. Maybe need to fix it up abit more but for now its just mainly for ingame looks so i dont have to stare at the damn Wolf head banner. wish it just only works... If anyone wants to try the file out themselves to see if it works for them i would be grateful. And yes, I saved it as a "standard_scipii.tga.dds" file and placed it in the xgm/data/models/textures folder.

Also trying to figure out how to make it so that the Illyrians build only greek buildings, suffering minor confusion at the moment.



Locky: should the unit be able to throw javelins as well?

Edit: Got it to work but only by replacing the files in the main RTW folder. Although I was happy with the ingame banners and how they actually turned out, i really prefer if i could get it to work in the xgm folder instead.

edit2: Currently trying to place the pegasus symbol on the strat map but have no idea how to do it. More to the fact it is not working whatevr i tried. the original image was saved as a photoshop image file so there is no alpha channels, cant convert to dds file because need to be multiple of fours whatever that means and created a new layer with alpha channel but the image is only visible on alpha and not any others. Learning is hard.... =/

[Scutarii]

Excellent! I loved the idea of the Illyrians in RTR, although I hated the actual mod. Try moving the hoplites up a barracks each, give the Illyrian hoplites lower defense then the Greek ones, but higher attack and charge, same with the Agema, but upgraded stats. The warband can be government building level, and the Illyrian peltasts can be similar to Iberian Caetratii, strong skirmishers with limited (but some) melee capability, at the first tier barracks. Illyrian Heavy Peltasts can be either a)similar to Thorikitai, but higher attack and charge, with possibly lower defense and at the City Barracks level, or b)similar to Theurophoi, and then Illyrian Thorikitai can be its own unit. Either way, I think that they should be armed with swords(or axes!) instead of spears, for a bit of a difference.

For cavalry, you mentioned that they had relations with the Epriotes? Maybe Epirote cavalry could be an elite Royal Barracks level unit. Some medium cav at the city level and no cav at the militia level would reflect a lack of cavalry.

[Paul d]

and give the illyrian hoplite/agema ect. sword or axe sidearms; im pretty sure they compatible with the overarm animation but i may be wrong

[DimeBagHo]

and give the illyrian hoplite/agema ect. sword or axe sidearms; im pretty sure they compatible with the overarm animation but i may be wrong

It won't crash, but you will see some odd weapon swapping behavior.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=114358

[Locky]

It won't crash, but you will see some odd weapon swapping behavior.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=114358

EB replaced the primary weapon with the spear, in the actual model. So they charge with the spear, and use the sword as primary weapon. But they seem to use the spear more often.

[Ferrus]

And more =p


(Illyrians from the more hellenized Doars tribe... perhaps)

Illyrians in full panopoly. I choose the breastplates mainly because I saw some images taken from tombs and what not. Although they tend to cremate their dead though.... However am having some minors problems as the horse hair crests are not showing on them for some strange reason.. Oh well, technically two units down now, time to maybe experiment with the warband.

[Paul d]

oh yeah, like they will carry axe/sword as main weapon, and use spear to charge, and then swap back? and vice versa?

[Ferrus]

Scutarii: I dunno if 'some' relation with the Epirotes could be described as friendly but I am actually curious to find out if the Illyrians used calvary in a military role at all. Going to read the rest of Polybius but I got a kendo grading in about two hours so I better start practicing soon. I like the idea of giving the heavy peltast(which needs a better name by the way, sounds lame) axes, which will give them some close combat ability but i dont want to create a unit similar to the thracian peltasts. Unless of course such a unit did exist.

Pauld: Yeah like Dime said, weapon swapping is irritating (I done it months ago and it just looked so perculiar i just left the hoplites as spear armed)

Dime: I got a question, when I used the greek culture line, does this mean i can automatically create greek buildings? I removed all roman_scipii from the export_descr_buildings.txt but it seems that i can create buildings though I am not too sure if they are greek or roman. I was told in the tute that i need to add roman_scipii next to any greek_cities (which i havent done yet) but it seems that it is on the recruit line, like this;

recruit "greek peltast" 0 requires factions { greek, }

but I am also confused by this line;

barracks_one_greek requires factions { greek, egyptian, }

and i dunno whether i should put roman in the second line or ignore it. Is the second line related to the culture line? These lines are from building barracks_greek and I am not too sure at all. but i can recruit greek units even though i have the peasant unit cards.

recruit "greek hoplite militia" 0 requires factions { greek_cities, romans_brutii, }

This line is where i need to put romans_scipii but does the line mean what it says? Because I dont want to use any greek units because i am planning to introduce new units for the Illyrians. And the main reason why I am not editing the buildings at the moment as I am playing around with photoshop.

[DimeBagHo]

The culture groups are: barbarian, carthaginian, eastern egyptian, greek, roman. If a faction has greek listed as its culture in descr_sm_factions.txt then it is part of the greek culture group. On the building and recruitment lines, if greek is given as one of the requirements then that means all of the factions in the greek culture group are included. If you want only some greek factions to build or recruit something then you have to list the specific factions.

That complicates things a bit when you change the culture of a faction. If a unit or building is currently available to all greek factions, but you don't want it available to your new greek faction, then you will have to go through and replace the culture group name "greek" with a list of all the greek factions that should be able to build or recruit.

Hope that helps.

[Ferrus]

Thanks Dime, that helped alot, I knew it was something simple but you clarified it for me brilliantly, now I made sure i cant build any Roman buildings, while building Greek buildings without any units whatsoever . Man cant wait, downloading that 3d program and it is almost finished. Time to read some tute's to figure out how to work it. Oh do you know how to deal with a symbol that doesnt have an Alpha channel for photoshop? been trying to place the pegasus symbol on top of the wolfs head on symbols1.tga.dds but been failing miserably because my original symbol is missing the alpha channel, then I gave it one only to have it become visible only on the alpha but not on RGB. My sanity is slowly slipping away...

Oh for those who care, I passed my kendo grading...muahahaha

edit: I finally got the 3d max program version 9 BUT i cant seem to get the ".CAS Importerexporter for 3ds max.zip[1]" (from vercingetorix) to work, i try running it as is, but errors pop up and i wondered if i can unzip it but no, it doesnt want to... something to do with zip[1] file document. Can any1 help me out on this because I really want to make some Illyrian hoplites..

[Scutarii]

Well, happy modding. I hope this gets finished and included in a future version.

[DimeBagHo]

You should be able to extract the script from the zip file - scripts should have a ".ms" suffix. With the alpha stuff - doesn't RTR have a symbol you can use for that - it should be in one of the symbols files.

[Ferrus]

I found out wat the problem was, when i downloaded i had to alter the file name to include .zip and change the save as 'All files'. So now I am lookin at all these neat models... but i cant see their textures.. oh well. And no the RTR symbol look ...unrelated to the faction(looked like a worm thing...

BUT anyway... muahaha made some Illyrian light hoplites! YAY!





To my absolute surprise, i found these little beautiful shields all made up and rearing to go from xgm:diadochi (without permission of course), and then it was all a simple case of copying and pasting and doing some mix and match of textures (clothes and whatnot) from several different files. Are they historically accurate? NO FREAKING IDEA! but I am happy to say they look the part (of being light that is). I am curious as to whether the Illyrian type helms have anything to do with Illyrian warriors themselves? Oh well, now to figure out 3dmax

[Scutarii]

Nice hoplites. Althought the head is kinda like the Militia Phalangite.

[Paul d]

what is the planned faction colour?

[Ferrus]

Scutarii: Yeah, I know what you mean, I am limited to what textures I can use until I can finally figure out how to make 3dmax work for me(So i can detach heads and swap it around)as I cant make textures show on the program to see if i am even doing it right. Oh well, the Militia helm thing is only a short term solution unless I find out that Illyrian type helms has nothing to do with illyrians. Which I am checking out websites for.

PaulD: the faction colour on the strat map is the same as the romans_scipii but on the battlemap I am not too keen on men all wearing bright blue so I just use blue sparringly amongst the units and the pegasus symbols to tie the units together visually.

Anyway...barbarians =), Illyrians from further north..



The Ideal barbarians. Clothed in the trappings of civilisation while killing in barbarian mode..



Finally installed one of the hoplites into the build queue, gonna work on the unit card and info later when I can finalised what they look like first. The light hoplites might stay the way they are though... though I rather hear some opinions about their helms. Or historically wise too. =)

Dime if you're reading this, can u tell me a possible problem why I cant get the horse hair crests to appear? especially when it is meant for the model itself and all i altered textures wise was the clothes.

[Ceki]

In former Illyrian lands lived noumerous tribes. First there were Histri(today peninsula of Istra) their capital was Nesactium. When Romans counquered them they razed Nesactium and on it's ruins created a new settlement, ancient Pola (today city of Pula). Next tribe was Liburns, illyrian tribe who flourished by piracy, they had land on the Adriatic seashore, from river Raša (Rasha) to river Zrmanja, and several islands. They were famed by liburnica navis, a fast bireme wich gave Romans a great headacke, an based on that ship they builted mighty navi. Liburnians didn't had any capital.
Third tribe were Delmati. They gave Romans a big trouble. Warlike tribe, allaways willing to fight. In 6. BC. until 9. B.C. there was rebellion of 2 batons (title of clan leader). Delmats were first to rebel. Their capital was Delminium.


There are numerous tribes that lived inland, and if you are interested, i can write you down their names, religion, capitals, and culture.
What you must know, Illyrians were never unified in single state, even their language was different.
There was something like federation of tribes 219 BC. (which some authors claim that that was a state cause they had a king), but evidence shows (coins, statues, stonewritings, and ancient writers), they were never unified.

Hope this will help a bit.
Sorry for bad english, wrote in a hurry.

PS. Illyrians were Barbarians. Several greek cities were bulted on Adriatic shore. Corchira melayna (island of Korčula), Issa (island of Vis), and greek factoria (trade center) Salona which was taken by Delmats, and factoria Adria on river Po.

And about sign of Illyrians, it is a snake. Snake was their symbol in different variety. The name Illyrios, means encircled like a snake. Illyriuanka means snake.Even today in some rural places people put snake on their graveyard stones.

[Ceki]

http://razanac.averi.hr/Slike/iliri-karta.jpg

Here is a link where you can see Illyrian tribes by territory. Hope it will help.