Medieval 2: XL

[Kaidonni]

Hmmm...been a very long time since I last posted on TWCenter...

Well, here's the thing. I've never been able to get into M2TW, and I've played MTW: XL a lot recently, and it is just a classic mod for a classic game. Now, I've been rather disappointed with M2TW, it's so tedious to me. All those traits and retinues...the costs...just the way it is put together, really. The mods haven't done much for me, either, sadly. I thought Medieval Classic might have been a good mod to try, but it has dipped into obscurity by the looks of the forums, especially as concerns the download link for the latest version (or lack of).

I'm thinking that it'd be nice to capture the glory of MTW: XL, while exploiting the potential of the M2TW engine (and not getting far too complex either - that was a real downer for DLV for me, too much micromanagement of generals and trying to keep track of the effects of traits and retinue).

I'm currently in the process of contacting VikingHorde, who made MTW: XL, to see if I can get permission to create this mod. If I can, then it'd be good to have a team (I can't do all the work myself, even though I do have knowledge of some modding for RTW which carries over to M2TW - and I can learn quickly, too).

Basically, I'd be looking for people who could work on the 3D versions of buildings and units for the campaign map and battle map. I'm fine with creating new art for building and unit descriptions, and for events - unless I could recruit some people for that (the 3D art in the descriptions seems lacking...it needs to be more artistic). Maps of the regions that could be used would come in handy if anyone knows where I could find any.

Certain desired features would be many extra regions on the campaign map, using a large version of the map minus the Americas. The desired time span is 1087AD-1453AD. The faction slots need to be fully utilised, and I already have the list of the factions from MTW:XL. An era system is a good idea (means we can also have different factions for the different eras).

Since as I like the fact M2TW has 10 extra faction slots, bringing it to around 30/31, here is a list of the desired factions and the era they should appear in:
Early (1087-1204)
1. Papal States
2. Rebels
3. England
4. Ireland
5. Scotland
6. France
7. Holy Roman Empire
8. Denmark
9. Norway
10. Sweden
11. Castile-Leon
12. Portugal
13. Aragon
14. Almoravids
15. Genoa
16. Venice
17. Sicily
18. Hungary
19. Poland
20. Bohemia
21. Serbia
22. Novgorod
23. Kiev
24. Lithuania
25. Cumans
26. Volga-Bulgars
27. New Armenia
28. Byzantines
29. Seljuks
30. Fatimids

High (1205-1321)
1. Papal States
2. Rebels
3. England
4. Scotland
5. France
6. Holy Roman Empire
7. Denmark
8. Sweden
9. Castile-Leon
10. Portugal
11. Aragon
12. Almohads (renamed from Almoravids)
13. Genoa
14. Venice
15. Sicily
16. Hungary
17. Poland
18. Serbia
19. Bulgaria
20. Novgorod
21. Russians
22. Lithuania
23. Cumans
24. Volga-Bulgars
25. New Armenia
26. Byzantines
27. Seljuks
28. Ayubbids (renamed from Fatimids)
29. Teutonic Order
30. Crusader States

Late (1322-1453)
1. Papal States
2. Rebels
3. England
4. Scotland
5. France
6. Holy Roman Empire
7. Denmark
8. Sweden
9. Castile-Leon
10. Portugal
11. Aragon
12. Nasrids (renamed from Almohads)
13. Genoa
14. Venice
15. Hungary
16. Poland
17. Serbia
18. Bulgaria
19. Novgorod
20. Russians
21. Lithuania
22. New Armenia
23. Byzantines
24. Ottomans (renamed from Seljuks)
25. Mameluks (renamed from Ayyubids)
26. Teutonic Order
27. Crusader States
28. Burgundy
29. Golden Horde
30. Knights Hospitaller
31. Switzerland
Note: Although Bohemia did reappear for Late in XL, Switzerland might be a better choice here based on the limited faction slots.

The Timurids and Aztecs will be completely removed and replaced by other factions. The Golden Horde would appear in 1230. Certain advanced ships would only become available after the invention of the compass. Gunpowder would be discovered in the 13th Century AD (can't remember the date from MTW1...darn!). All of the other events would be desirable, such as the writing of the Magna Carta or the Alexiad (I'm not forgetting the Council at Clermont, either), each with specific effects.

The idea with the factions is that there will be different factions depending on the era you start from. So, that means essentially 3 different campaigns, each shorter than the last and with more advanced tech and built-up provinces. You wouldn't see factions like Burgundy or Bulgaria if you played from Early, and likewise if you started in Late Sicily would not be available to select. Certain units available in Early would not be available in High, and if you started from Early, you'd still be able to use them in High, but if you started from High you'd never see them (beyond starting units, at the most).

Further features would include 2 turns per year, incorporation of the AI modifications made by others (with their permission, of course), and possibly changing the tech tree so that it isn't split into cities and castles (it seems that the AI can't switch between them, so a more balanced system is required).

Hope this is a good start to this new mod. I will be waiting for VikingHorde to get back to me on The Guild forums (where I contacted him via PM). Who knows, in a matter of days this mod might have it's own sub-forum...I can dream, can't I?

EDIT: Hmmm...maybe only unit/building modders are needed. I suppose I might be getting too fussy about the art (and after reading some mod threads, I realise if I can, I might want to ask for permission to borrow art and maps for my mod rather than waste time myself - or ask someone else to waste time - creating the exact same thing someone else has created, such as a big map or the art for the scrolls that pop-up telling you things that have happened).

[Garnier]

I think you should get a good deal of real work done before you start "putting together a team", and getting a subforum.

I have nothing against starting a mod, but for your own sake, I see a LOT of major mods that are "started" by someone posting a faction list and description of the campaign, and then the work doesn't really progress very fast.

I always recommend starting on your own, once you have a lot of work to show you can get a subforum and some people to help you.

[Kaidonni]

Thanks.

Seeing as how there are plenty of guides to modding, and I have a basic understanding of modding the .txt files, and seeing how I've already got some ideas for the factions, etc, I should probably start it on my own, and then when I need help with the units and buildings I can ask for help.

[Snoopy]

Idea:

Possibilities with Egypt:

(1) Early: Possibly made the Ayyubids a hoard (or, if possible, a faction stealing Fatamid cities) just as history had it (Saladin taking over Egypt).


(2) In between: If possible, make a campaign where both Ayyubids and Fatamids exist.


(3) Same as post 1, except with Mamelukes instead.

Thousands o' possibilities. And thats with Egypt alone!

[Kushan]

Good Luck with you mod. I agree with Garnier, start the mod youeself, try and get some sort of alpha/beta together to start generating interest in your ideas/mod.

I also suggest reading What a mod Leader Should Know. Definitely worth it.

Kushan

[IrAr]

I was wondering when a 2XL mod would appear. Good luck!

[Kaidonni]

I won't be separating the Fatimids, Ayyubids and Mameluks out. I'm intending it to be pretty much like the original XL, which is a great mod (now now, don't go asking me to try BKB's Supermod just yet . One mod idea is enough for now).

Basically, as outlined above, I'll be using all 31 faction slots. The first thing for me to do is decide on the map to use (of course, there will still be extra work for me to do - I might have to exclude the Americas from the map I choose if they are still present). I'm thinking one of the bigmap mods, such as Anno Domini (they also have a very good AI for that mod, so I've heard, and I'll be asking them for permission about all of this).

The way the mod is laid out means there will essentially be 3 separate campaigns. Starting in Early would take you through to the end of Late. Starting in High through to the end of Late. And starting in Late, until the end of that era. But, depending on what starting era you'd choose, the factions present will be different. If you started in Early, you'd never see the Fatimids renamed to the Ayubbids, nor would the Teutonic Order appear. The Mongols would always appear around 1230 (might be best to randomise it a bit, give or take 5-10 years, or 10-20 turns - can't be too predictable). There is no 31st faction mentioned in the above list for Early and High because that would be the Golden Horde (the Mongols), and the list is of the starting factions in each era.

So, my plan at the moment is to procure a map to utilise and go about putting in any corrections necessary. Then, the factions will be dealt with in a basic way (making sure I can get them all present on the map - units, banners, etc, can wait until later - one step at a time). There needs to be balancing of the tech tree, especially costs (to reflect the original XL - and RTW - somehow, paying 2000 florins for a bowyer that gives you some javelin unit seems...extortionate, especially when you can hardly rake in that amount per turn...and roads at 1200 florins?) - and since as the AI can't really exploit the Castle-City conversion system, all the settlements will be Cities, and the tech tree altered as required. I still plan on 2-turns-per-year, making the game 732 turns for 1087-1453, 496 for 1205-1453 and 262 for 1322-1453 (it's odd how the characters age 6 months per turn and it turns into winter after each summer, and yet the year might change entirely, not switch to the next season...).