Apachians Totally Suck.

[Clark]

Apachians totally suck. I had like 9 War Leaders and a full compliment of men agains't the Chickamics and lost even tried AI Auto and lost badly. The Apachians really need revamping. Oh, also I had full Tech, mounted and standing gunners also had Melee Hachet foot forces. This is from the America's Campaign of Medieval II Total War Kingdoms.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Yeah, I'm sure this is meant to be some sort of point about people complaining about the game before they've played it, but still, rather not have it.

[Clark]

No actually I have all the Total War series and have played them.

[Ged]

Is this about you sucking, Apacheans sucking, Chinchimecs are uber, or the campaign and battles in Empire sucking?

[Clark]

Well it's certainly not me sucking. lol. There is no way 9 War Leaders with a full compliment agains't one leader and in one battle should be that unbalanced for Chicamics to win and also on easy setting lol.

[Spiff]

moved to the Kingdoms forum..

[MedievalDragoon]

Have you ever thought about changing your tactics?

[zznɟ ǝɥʇ]

Okay...why did you lose that badly? Clearly your strategies need addressing because there's no reason for you to lose a battle with the forces you describes...Cheechandchongmexicans or whatever you called them may be tough, but I've managed to win every battle on harder setting than you describe.

Also, why the hell did you have nine war leaders in the same stack?

[Slaists]

hmm. i suspect, your tactics really need reworking. in my campaign on vh/vh settings apachian armies roll over pretty much everything. i usually have only one war leader in my armies though... lots of horse archers, gun-braves and archers.

[UniQ]

Your tac really really need some work, In my Apache camp I have wiped the chamxaxexians or whatever out of the game. I must admit their heavy infantry is a pain the ass but the apachian archers pwns

[Faris ad Din]

I have just started out playing the Apachean tribes as my first faction, but there is one thing I have noticed right away, and that is that their strength lies in ranged combat but they are correspondingly pretty weak in melee combat. This holds true at least against the other American Indian factions who have little armor, like the Chichimecs/Aztecs/Maya etc.

In several battles against rebels, I used balanced armies of about half units (Scouts and Apachean Braves) on melee duty and about half (Rabbit Boys, Dog Soldiers, Koitsenkos) on ranged duty. The melee units did appreciably well against similar units, but my archers racked up massive kill numbers easily breaking 100 each battle, and that was with them only on fire-at-will mode, and with about two-thirds ammunition left.

If you're using nine War Leaders, which are solely melee units, you are sorely missing out on the strength of the Apacheans, which is ranged damage, especially against unarmored foes like the Chichimecs. I would suggest employing a strategy more focused on avoidance, using just enough melee units to keep the enemy busy enough for your ranged to wipe the enemy. Engaged ranged to clean them up when the advantage turns safely in your favor, as most of the ranged units apparently shape up relatively decently in melee.

As one particular note, even a unit that appears to be mainly melee, like the Apachean Braves, is ranged. In my siege battles I take my leader with several units of Braves positioned before the battle, around the side of the village after the enemy is pinned down, and hurl several good volleys of spears into their rear before using them to mop up. They have a good amount of ammunition at that.

As a second note, the other main melee unit you have early on, the Scouts, are not a pure "line-infantry," they are able to conceal themselves anywhere on the battlefield: they are battlefield assassins. This goes only to reinforce a non-head-on battle strategy for the Apacheans. They are best used not to stand in melee toe-to-toe with the Jaguar or Eagle Warriors of the southern Indian civilizations, but rather used for flanking/ambushing. A unit that you cannot see is one you cannot prepare for; so again, they are best used as assassins rather than an infantry wall.

I have not fought the Spanish yet, as I would try to avoid hostilities with them like the plague until they are fully tied up in wars with the other Mesoamerican factions. However, I figure that a similar strategy should be used, except with perhaps more advanced melee units like the Onde's Men if they are available to counter the Conquistadors with spears and high morale, and of course Thunder Braves and Mounted Thunder Braves to pierce the Spaniard's steel armor. Anyways, I'm still figuring this out, but these are just my initial observations from a few turns of playing this faction, who are quickly turning out to be one of my favorite.

[Saibot]

Yep, either your tactics or stack set-up needs changing. I usually only use full stacks with about 8 archers, 6 Apachean Braves, 2 Thunder Braves and 3 Mounted Thunder Braves or Apaches + my general.

[the_mango55]

Why the hell did you have 9 war leaders?

That probably hurt you more than anything, since they are such small units, and they aren't super units like European generals.

You should have taken more Kostienkos and Mounted Thunder Braves.

[Francebunkerer]

And autocalc can be pretty random. Really really random. More random than the result of a working random generator, while the person reading the result is on an LSD trip.

[Faris ad Din]

Oh and one last tip, if you can take it from a novice to the Americas: Campaign and the Apachean Tribes in general. Medicine Men can help quite a bit in bolstering your weak melee infantry when they are taking heavy losses, as expected. Since 1) they will be taking equal/heavier losses to American Indian/European units and 2) if you're playing wisely, you aren't taking that many melee units to battle to begin with, your one challenge will be to keep the enemy pinned down and your archers safely mowing them down at a distance. If you can't help your infantry kill faster/die slower, then you can at least keep them fighting longer through heavier losses with the Medicine Men's morale boosting ability. Before the time your melee start to either rout or be killed to the last man with boosted morale, you should probably be already winning the battle with enough archers/gunners.

[Uniema]

Apachians totally suck.

Ill admit, at the beginning when all you have are Braves and Rabbits... they do suck. However the best tactic I have heard from members here is use Warpath from the very beginning and expand as far east as you can... that will give you scouts and dog soldiers in the first 10 turns, and it should also allow you to recriut 2 units instead of one.

I had like 9 War Leaders and a full compliment of men agains't the Chickamics and lost even tried AI Auto and lost badly.

I noticed you wanted to fight the Chim's at their own game... melee. You have to break yourself from what you learned in the grand campaign. Apaches have awsome ranged units... and their enemies are weak vs ranged weapondry. Mounted Thunder Braves... if you practice at them... own all. Play a pitched battle with "only" them. They really perform better that you expect.

The Apachians really need revamping. Oh, also I had full Tech, mounted and standing gunners also had Melee Hachet foot forces. This is from the America's Campaign of Medieval II Total War Kingdoms.

I dont think the need revamped. But I trust you if you try it again you will enjoy it so much better.

[Grimmy]

I got a bit lucky in a campaign today. The first western army to land on my shores (I was playing Apache) landed smack dab in the middle of my two eastern expansion armies. I had them walking along the coastline, the first stack was about half a turn travel ahead of the second.

Anyhoo, I ended up beating the crud out of the Spanish with my lead army and the Spanish survivors ran right toward my following army. After that fight, no survivors in the Spanish forces.

Next turn I got nifty stack of notifications, guns and horses, all the way up to long houses.

[Edelward]

Apache are rather weak - but not that much my fav-combination now is medical-personal und hound-boyos
I wonder how do I get European tech tree ( EU 3 !) for Apache?
And - do any Americans can build ships - want to capture Havana !

[Kraut]

I wonder how do I get European tech tree ( EU 3 !) for Apache?

Easy. Just wipe the floor with the Europeans arriving. Rinse and repeat, until they are completely stomped. Enjoy their dead meat afterwards, and by eating their brain, you will absorb their knowledge instantly.

(serious: you have to conquer an European faction to get access to gunpowder and horses)

[Edelward]

One town or total wipe out ?

And I give you rep :
I like Sauer-Kraut !