So let me get this right about Kingdoms (I need community input here)...

[Mulattothrasher]

/rant on

Ok, here we go. I figured I would wait a few days until more folks have had time to play, as opposed to asking the day of/after its release. This may all sound like a gripe, and perhaps its warranted considering how CA has done the fans in the past, but I have to ask these question now that the game is a few days old, and please answer them honestly(anyone) and give your own opinion on this. I need to know...



Has CA failed to deliver drastic improvements or rework the battle AI to a major extent again?

Is CA still neglecting to put any intelligence in the AI for diplomacy (as in the "AI" still will not surrender even when they are down to one city and one peasant garrison and you offer them the world)?

Did CA skip over the horrid siege/castle battles that are ending up with the "suicide general" charging forth through the gate before his army and players still continue to fight with the pathfinding (as in its next to impossible to put troops on the alleys and battlements with ease)?

Have they solidified the pike/polearm formations and other formations so they stay in form and not switch immediately to melee in Kingdoms?

Company of Heroes has some impressive AI, the best thats out there I think. I have never been really impressed with CA's AI in its games, obviously. Does Kingdoms even come close to COH, even a little bit?


Sure, theres probably MODs out their that will soon help and improve everything. But I am stuck on dialup (country livin' is great huh). I really need quality/passable quality right out of the box. No ifs, ands, or buts. I simply do not have the time to consistently wait weeks to finally download all the new, big game enhancing things that the modders make for free. Why should a game need many MODs to address basic core issues that the developers should have/could have been $paid$ to preform in the first place?

Maybe to some I sound like a evil grouch, but keep in mind I have *every* Total War game/expansion since Shogun (yes, even Alexander). I have spent $hundreds$ in support of CA, as have probably most of us. I just feel they ignore, continually, over and over again, HUGE, major game issues (which means ignoring you/me/voices in the community) to make something thats all flash and graphics. Yeah, if these problems were exclusive to one or two of their games/expansions, I can live with that easily. Yeah, the the AI acted retarded here and there, I can live with that easily as well. But it seems like these issues have been around since at least vanilla RTW. How longs it been? 3-4 years no still no major overhaul of the AI? Whats the deal?

Many in the community keep asking for just a handful of things to improve. Make to diplomacy AI at least passable, if only slightly, as "intelligent..." try to give us more tactically adept opponents on the battlefield, etc... again, just a few things. For some reason, and sadly, all that seems to change are the graphics. The same old issues about AI and other things keep popping up after every game and expansion CA makes, and in pretty noticeable numbers.

Has Kingdoms finally changed all this? Is there light, if only a faint glimmer, in the tunnel somewhere that CA is making non graphic related improvments? Or will I be disappointed...again? I'm 'bout ready to give up...



/rant off...whew...

[The Mongol]

I won't sugar coat it, I love Kingdoms but the AI still needs drastic improvements. The Pikemen still have butterfingers and drop their pikes from time to time, charges are still bugged, sieges can be a clusterfluck for AI.

I had a battle earlier where I was fighting Lithuania and their entire army retreated to the border and ran all the way back and finally fought me, giving me an advantage because they were all tired by the time they got back. It was very weird.

I think there has been some minor improvements but nothing that makes you go "WOW!". I've been flanked a little more often, a unit of cavalry taking out my Mangonel that was wreaking havoc.

As for comparing the AI to CoH, the games are quite different so it's hard. Company of Heroes AI is nothing to bust a nut over IMO. While it's still good sometimes they get their tanks stuck together just screaming "ARTY ME!!!1" and do some other dumb things. Mostly pathfinding issues though... anyways wrong thread for this.

[Lionel-Richie]

I really don't think you can compare tactical tank spamming AI to strategy diplomacy AI. I'm pretty sure the M2 AI is probably tenfold more complex than any RTS AI.

[hellheaven1987]

Strategy AI - YES, a big improvement.

Tactic AI - Not sure, but it seems remain the same.

[Tajir]

Kingdoms is great, thus far no one is complaining, it really says something about the game.

All major review groups said it was a 9/10.

Did I mention it is only $30

[Kyias]

I'm enjoying myself:

The AI is decent, the strategy map AI does some actual offense now and forts are actual strategic points to hold rather than laughable sieges.

That mixed with 5 total campaign maps and I'm a happy camper

[the_mango55]

Are you seriously comparing the AI of M2:TW, a complex tactical strategy game, with Company of Heros, a simple rock paper scissors based RTS?

The adjustments and decision making reuired in Medieval are much more complex and hard to code than those in any base building RTS.

[Mechstra]

Are you seriously comparing the AI of M2:TW, a complex tactical strategy game, with Company of Heros, a simple rock paper scissors based RTS?

The adjustments and decision making reuired in Medieval are much more complex and hard to code than those in any base building RTS.

Much as I love Company of Heroes (which is not by any means a 'simple rock paper scissors based RTS', at all, at all) the AI in it is not terribly great. The AI can't even handle destroyed bridges, even. Something as basic and fundamental to the game is entirely beyond the AI's ken. It doesn't understand how to repair the bridges with engineers/pioneers.

If things that big were left out of a CA game, I can bet that the OP would rage about it.

[xxax]

But 4 campaigns? dude... THIS game is the best and most advanced game EVER so we should really admire the AMOUNT of work done to get it to the level it is on now !

best and most advanced game? Hardly. And about the AMOUNT of work... this isn't a mod it's a game which means people are getting paid...

[normanknight]

best and most advanced game? Hardly. And about the AMOUNT of work... this isn't a mod it's a game which means people are getting paid...

so people who get paid dont do work???????????????????????????

there are still some minor issues but the game is a massive improvement i bought it yesterday played it all night and now im at work and its all i can think about its amazing!!

[Zendjir]

Well....I'm not buying it since the AI is pretty much the same from what I hear. Maybe I'll buy it if mods succeed in a drastic AI-improvement. But that will take time. But I'll definetly buy the next TW game!

[_TubbZ_]

If you're not satisified with the battle AI and want a challenge play it online I think the battle AI is a hard thing to improve and its basically similar to RTW so maybe with the new engine for E:TW it will be better...

I played it for a few hours last night and it seemed alot more fun than m2tw was when i played the campaign, The AI puts up a god fight and the units look amazing, for a good fight though i just go online...

[Mikelus Trento]

I am most impressed with the AI in Kingdoms. I play my campaigns on VH/VH, and have delved deeply now into the Americas campaign as the Spanish, and the Crusades as Jerusalem.

I have noticed that on the campaign map now the enemy armies move smartly. They attack my weaker armies, they hold some of their forces in reserve, and they attack with more than 1 army often. Their units seem to be much better selected as far as balancing their forces. I have yet to see a 10 catapault army moving around, or a king moving solo.

Tactically, the enemy seems to be much better able to know when to attack or defend. Nor do they seem to make a beeline in the settlements for the city center and stay there.

This is by far the best TW game in the entire series imo, and it's because the AI has been much improved.