Byzantium Army and early strategy

[Akkaid]

Hey yall,

Im getting ready to start a Byzantine game with either Lusted's or Snipafists CAI on Hard/V Hard. I was wondering what early game tactics yall would use (no blitz-ing, taking advantage of AI) and what a good early field army make up would be. I'd prefer to use horse archers only as support and to harry flanks/ hunt down wandering rebels. Early building strats and alliances also appreciated!!


Also, can anyone tell me how to add cannons or serpintines to the Byz lineup?

[delra]

Mass skythikons to run behind enemy lines + dismounted lancers and trebizond archers as a backbone. Don't hesitate to hire any armenian mercenaries you come across too, especially their heavy cavalry is very good. Also Balkan archers are quality but rare (black archer mercenaries).

You are vulnerable to cavalry with such tactics so do yourself a favour and build up barracks in Constantinople and get some decent pikes from there.

Also, get either Bran or Ceasarea early for a quick fortress to get varangian guard for your flanks. Without them, you will have real fun on VH/VH. Corinth can supply them if you're a pansy and don't want to anger your neighbours early. It's a pain to retrain them there.

Best allies are (that order) HRE, Kiev, Milan, Templars, sometimes Poland if they blitz a lot early. The Pope too, but it's cheap and lame.

At the beginning rather wait out your sieges and let them sally forth the last turn. And don't count on your starting units to take any walls.

The last advice, build smiths. Your units really need those armour upgrades. Especially your early spears, without new shiny armours they are just peasants with sticks. With them, they are lightly armoured peasants with sticks.

[Akkaid]

Thanks Delra, I've been following your reports in the CAI thread. Are the Byz Spears worthless even with the armor? Would they not make a decent backbone? Ive considered upping thier stats to that of Italian Militia, I think that would be more historically accurate anyways.

Are the Trebizond archers better than the Byz Guards now?

Anyword on adding cannons?

[peng_li]

i ADDed cannons to my byzantin army.. .Grand cannons

[whhyy]

And don't go to far west till you have dealt with the mongols.

[delra]

Those early spears are nothing more but militia. With silver armour they can stand their ground against weakest light cavalries but forget stopping Hussars with them.

This way or another, you have to get to a citadel as fast as possible or you will be destroyed by the first elite army that marches into your land. Especially from Bran and Ceasarea.

By the way, our CAI strategy is quite passive and provokes AI to attack us too. Use it on your own risk. :-)

[Gorrrrrn]

As Kingdoms hasn't arrived yet I've been doing a Byzzie campaign.

Initially it's OK, you can expand in just about direction and many people will be your friends. However the economy is a bit sluggish and you'll need to prioritise which direction you want to go in.

I ended up going all over the place so by 1350 I'm strung out and vulnerable from attack from sides. (not recommended)

In the early stages spears, archers and horse archers, will do the trick. Upgrading your forces requires both an adequate supply of money and population big enough to upgrade the settlements and castles. Getting the balance right can be difficult.

I ended up at war with Venice - well they attacked me so I thought, right we'll go after you first. Eventually wiped them out and then got into a fight with Sicily and the Pope and HRE and then I had the Egyptians attacking Iraklion, so I took the war to them in Africa, so the Templars allied to me then back-stabbed me, then allied and back stabbed me again, and the Turks attacked in Turkey and now, after the plague has decimated my garrisons and the economy is knackered, the Mongols - who have conquered Russia and the Hunagrians - have attacked and taken Thessalonica and are threatening Constantinople. And the Moors have allied themselves to Egypt and the Pope and HRE are allied to the Mongols.

My only allies are Milan, Portugal and Kievan Rus.

And then there's the "natural disasters" which usually strike just before an enemy does. You can almost guarantee that a settlement or castle will be attacked if it gets hit by an earthquake or storm. (Storm cost me Venice - I had captured it and held with a full garrison and popular govenor, but he then died and the garrison got ejected (despite having 4 priests in the region.) I managed to get a new general to the ejected army before it deserted and besieged the city. Ho hum a storm arrived, kills the general and half the army. So I recover the remnants and build another army to take venice only to discover Milan had nipped in and taken it. Pah.

Oh and Faction leaders who provoke disloyalty. Seems like you not allowed to do well in this game without being punished. Still I used three rebellious generals (they tend not to desert if you combine them in an army) to capture Cagliari. They besieged it and then walked in when the general defending it died. (Despite there being a Sicilian army parked next door.) The generals also managed to defend the castle due to a totally inept AI assault. Luckily I had got a small garrison on its way which not even a surprise attack from a Turkish fleet stopped getting through. Troops are near mutinous though so will need to build up the garrison from locals quickly.

So I'm stuck with settlements I need to upgrade (most need new walls) but no money to do it and also build garrisons - but I can't build the better units I need coz I can't afford to upgrade the cities.

I have a feeling the empire is about to collapse.

(using SS4.1 with RC 1.3 and nezz'a fix but that's all the patches)

[delra]

Build ports everywhere since the first turn. This will help your economy more than anything else.

Also, you can mass train assassins and use them to pump up your leader's dread to the max. Dreadful kings aren't betrayed a lot, and even if they are, it's full chivalrous generals who do that. So you can easily find out who to send to charge on pikes. :-)

[Ma'ahes]

I find that as long as you control the "heart" of your empire (Constant, Thess, Athens, Smyrna, and Cannakkale), then you'll do alright. They mostly trade with one another, and it's not uncommon to have them all getting 6k per turn if fully built up. Trust me--I lost Constant and thought it was all over, since I had no allies. Luckily, though, managed to get it back, hehe.

Oddly enough, I don't use Byz cavalry at all. Not due to the fact that I don't like them--I love Katatanks and Byz cav--but the mercs living in/around the Byz empire are rediculously good. Hell, if you blitz to get Belgrade, you'll be able to get one of the best merc units, the dismounted German knights. And lemme tell ya--they're like quick n' easy Varangians. Plus, off towards Anatolia gives you great merc cav. Basically, I relied on mercs to bolster my early armies since the backbone of the Byz Empire doesn't show up until waaaaaaay later.

[delra]

It's not about controlling a bunch of cities.

When you play Byzantine it's all about setting your borders on powerful citadels which can withstand any heavy attack of elite troops until you are ready to train your own elites.

That's why I'm suggesting taking Bran, Ceasarea and Ragusa. Those three can defend all your land borders with deadly effectiveness. Especially Ragusa can stop millions of German and Italian troops. Play a battle there and you will see why.

Sofia is nice but it's tricky too. It costs a lot to develop and Hungarians will have Bran close by, a castle being always one step forward before Sofia, thy will reach citadel there when you still be struggling to get all fortress buildings in Sofia. If you don't take Bran, you'll face Hungarian troops one generation better than yours. And one generation is a lot in M2TW. A lot.

Same with Ceasarea. Seljuks will get a fortress and a citadel there when your Smyrna, Adana, anything else in the area is still a castle. They will reach citadel when you're nowhere near a fortress. Do you really want to send your militia spears on naffatun lines? :-)

[Akkaid]

I hear that, I ruined a game my not taking Ragusa.

I also use Const. to build Byz Pikemen, they arent half bad, especially against Eastern Armies!

[delra]

They hold the line better than anything else you can train. It is a sort of a revival of good old Alexandrian tactics. Phalanx up front, shock on flanks, cavalry to do the hammer. Can't get bored with that. :-)

[Akkaid]

I hope that wasnt sarcasm, now go answer my swordsmiths guild question!

[delra]

Already done. $5.