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  1. #1

    Default A SS 4.1 Scottish Army

    I vote someone makes a SS TACTICS folder so people can share thier new SS Tactics...it took me a while as a SS noob to get a decent battle line rolling.

    This is my late 1100's to early 1200's army. Play your cards right and you can get this army rolling very quick in the game. Lower taxes and build a farm or two in Ediborough and you will have the Heavy Pikes really fast. I usually take Nottingham as my only castle in the Isles.

    For this army you will need:

    5 Heavy Pike Militia
    4 Highland Nobles
    4 Noble Archers
    2 Border Cavalry
    3 Balistas
    2 Trebuchets

    Field Combat-


    The Pikes will be your main battle line. They should be in ranks 4-5 deep, but this may very depending on the size of the forces you are facing. The Noble Archers (HAs) will form up in ranks 3 deep behind the HPMs. The Highland Nobles (HNs) will be formed up behind and slightly on the flanks of the HAs and the Border Horse (BH) will be formed up behind the HNs. Depending on the slope of the terrain you form up on, the Balistas will either be behind or in front of the formation. The Trebs will always be in the rear.

    The HPM will hold the line against almost anything the AI can throw at it. A very well placed charge from a very Elite calvary unit may present a breach, but thats what the HN reserves are there for. Watch out for larger armies enveloping your battle line, use the HNs to prevent this and shore up any damage inflicted. HNs arent that great at this job at first, but a little exp and armor/weapon upgrades and they are good to go. The HPMs will be slow about taking down the baddies, but down they will go, up to and perhaps above Dismounted Feudal Knights. They will devastate any calvary dumb enough to charge them, but watch out: Elite, Heavy cav can break their formation. If this happens, use your HNs, HAs or General to hold the line, in that order of precedence.

    Rely on your artillery as much as possible, even if it prolongs the battle or costs a few extra casualties. As they go up in exp, they become vastly more effective, especially the balistas. The main purpose behind all this artillery is to force the AI to come to you, even if they are on defense. The balistas excel against enemy siege units, and the trebs excel against everything else. Why not have 5 trebs? It would take an extra 12 turns to get the army complete and be alot more expensive. Also, it might just be me, but balistas seem to be far more accurate than trebs, and seem to kill just as many if not more troops than the trebs in your average battle.

    The BHs are the best archer/artillery killers next to Alan Calvary, and that is about it (ofcourse they take out routing units quite well) Never endanger them if you do not need to, the HNs are just as good for flanking units engaged with your battle line.

    The HNs, as already stated, need exp and upgrades. Exp is the easiest to get, but due to thier low defense value, expect alot of retraining. My favorite way to get thier exp up is to assault a town with a large garrison, you will see why below in the Siege section. The main purpose of the HNs is to shore up gaps that may appear in the main line and to prevent your HPMs from getting enveloped. THE ENEMY MUST NEVER GET AT THE FLANKS OF YOUR HPMS!!!! If they are not need for any of these dutys, use them to flank the AI units engaged with your line, just dont let them take a calvary charge.

    HAs arent the greatest archers, but if you wanted great archers you wouldnt be playing Scotland now would you? They can deploy stakes, have decent range, and dont get completley PWNED in melee. Using them is simple, keep 'em behind the HPMs and kill stuff. If you are facing a Cav heavy army, consider deploying the stakes on your flanks and then redeploying the HAs. Target light calvary first, then lightly armored units, then whatever else.


    Siege-

    Pretty straight foward, use the trebs to knock holes in the walls, at lest 3 holes, more if you have the ammo. Use the Balistas to take out whatever the AI uses to fill the holes. Once you have made your holes and forced the AI to retreat from the walls, run your HPMs into the breaches. Try to use them to form a 'beachhead' behind the walls. Use some HNs to take the walls real fast.

    Once the 'beachhead' is formed and the HPMs are back in spearwall formation (they should have been taken out of spearwall to get into position fast) move in your HAs and bring the Trebs to within range of any garrison they can hammer, no point in wasting the lives of you men, and the trebs need exp anyways.

    Once the trebs are no longer an asset, form two units of HPMs into a 'cork' for a road and move in the HAs. Here you have a choice. The HAs will pretty near exterminate whatever cowards hunker down in the city square, but as the AI generally uses the crappiest militias as garrisons, this is an excellent oppourtunity to get your HNs some chevrons. Cheapo units that cant runaway from you!!!!

    Ill give an update on this armies tactics Vs. Mongols and other horse archers, as well as a part two when I finally play long enough to get Noble Swordsmen, Noble Pikes, cannons and guns!!!
    Last edited by Akkaid; September 01, 2007 at 09:14 PM.

  2. #2
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: A SS 4.1 Scottish Army

    Get rid of those artillery and take more cavalry instead. :-)

  3. #3

    Default Re: A SS 4.1 Scottish Army

    Yeah, that would be ok (if I used Order calvary, which I dont), but this way my army is as good for siege as it is for field.

    MAKE A TACTICS FOLDER!

  4. #4
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: A SS 4.1 Scottish Army

    But for 90% of cities you need nothing but two ladders and two rams. If AI knew how to garrison, especially which units to use to garrison, it might have been different. But now artillery is more a problem (lower movement, high cost) than an asset. Especially that they almost never hit enemies. If their accuracy was improved... But to hit a unit with a Trebuchet is practically impossible.

    Let's compare.

    You have a trebuchet and you want to hit enemy armoured swordsmen which would kill 1/3 of the unit. You have chances for two or three such hits per battle. No more.

    If you had a good heavy cavalry unit, each of their charges could take 90% of men in such a unit. And you can keep charging during the whole battle each 30 seconds you deliver a blow and each of them hits. Who causes more damage, fear and havoc?

  5. #5

    Default Re: A SS 4.1 Scottish Army

    Good points, but Ill have to disagree on the accuracy part. I get far more hits than 2-3, Id say 15-20% hit thier target, though the target is the enemy battle line, not an idividual unit. And dont forget the balistas, they are far more accurate than that.

    My main reason for not using heavy cav is that it would be to big a pain to send the unit all the way back to Order House X in east bumblebuck to retrain. If I were playing France, Milan, HRE, Eng....anyone but Danes or Scots, I would have the Hcav in here.

    I am bias though, I always have bad luck with Cav!!! This is a tactics discussion though, write a nice Scot/Cav army article!

    PEACE!

  6. #6
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: A SS 4.1 Scottish Army

    Pikes up front, AP on flanks, cavalry to run forward on wide flanks and hit their 1. archers, 2. artillery, 3. Their infantry and cavalry trying to get past my pikes. Done.

    And as far as reinforcing cavalry is concerned, you just train two or three additional ones and send them behind the main army.

  7. #7

    Default Re: A SS 4.1 Scottish Army

    Feudal and Mailed knights are still powerfull. You should use them.

  8. #8

    Default Re: A SS 4.1 Scottish Army

    Late scottish SS army:
    1 general, 7 noble pikemen, 4 noble swordsmen.

    Form a heptagon (or hexagon with the "main side" containing two pike units) with
    the pikemen. Place the four swordsmen units just behind, or slightly inside, the
    four pikemen that are facing the enemy the most. The general tends to sit inside
    the comfortable and safe pike formation.

    This will hold just about anything. Depending on the task for the army and who I am
    facing, I either bring 6-7 archers (camping inside the heptagon and placing stakes
    outside) plus 1-2 cavalry (to defeat siege equipment and chase routers) or a full 8
    of cavalry for a concealed deployment and subsequent charge from behind when the
    enemy army is locked on my pikes.

    This is either really fun or utterly boring. You take very few losses (the pikefix means
    pikemen are useful, yay) and the scottish noble swordsmen are just insane killing
    machines. Plus they look damn fancy in shiny armor.

    As a sidenote, I tried a similar setup with the spanish in the Kingdom's americas
    campaign (tried a fancy square deployment). Yeah, right. The pikemen switch to
    swords, decide to test the indian machutlttlt-whatever axes against their padded
    armor rating and then you're annihilated.
    Last edited by Daergar; September 02, 2007 at 06:51 AM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: A SS 4.1 Scottish Army

    I like that late army. I just got Noble pikes and swords. I think Ill do a modified half-hexagon, heavy on the archers and a few trebs/cannons. I can use the Archers stakes to cover the extreme flank against cavalry.

  10. #10

    Default Re: A SS 4.1 Scottish Army

    Quote Originally Posted by Akkaid View Post
    I like that late army. I just got Noble pikes and swords. I think Ill do a modified half-hexagon, heavy on the archers and a few trebs/cannons. I can use the Archers stakes to cover the extreme flank against cavalry.
    Yeah, I do a full "circle" to prevent any sort of flanking attacks, be it cavalry or infantry. Also, be very, very careful when running friendly cavalry over the stakes. I lost my faction leader once to them when I sent him running to chase down routers. Splat, violated 90% of his guard plus himself.

    Never did like siege equipment. Maybe if I modified the movement on them it'd be more fun, though I just find myself doing without. Would make more sense to view a trebuchet unit as the work crew skilled enough to construct said engine on site. No one pushes a trebuchet anywhere, perhaps a few hundred yards. Definately not on a boat across a body of water...

  11. #11
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: A SS 4.1 Scottish Army

    You should WALK them over the stakes. Not run. When they walk, they are safe.

  12. #12

    Default Re: A SS 4.1 Scottish Army

    Quote Originally Posted by delra View Post
    You should WALK them over the stakes. Not run. When they walk, they are safe.
    "...when running friendly cavalry..." "...sent him running to chase..."

    Yeah. I know that. The cautionary advice was meant to imply that. Guess that failed and I got "Idiot" stamped on me instead. Thanks?

  13. #13

    Default Re: A SS 4.1 Scottish Army

    Bring back power of Noble Swordsman ffs, seriously

    My by faar favorite nation to play if i got bored of horses.


    I never formed special lines of pikeman/swordsman.
    I always deployed units

    S - sword
    P - pike
    A - Archers
    C - cavalry

    ___AAAAA___
    C PSPSPSP C

    Each inf. unit forming a square. I never fought in line, because when you drag line alot, it's hard to bring help, if needed, also square, if surrounded, form beautiful self-made shiltrom.

    Just try elite infantry unit in custom battle vs 4 units of very experienced peasants. Best result would be in square formation. Best - i mean best, you may even win that beasts with daggers


    Combining pike after sword after pike is simple - i move up pike to intercept cavalry, or sword to intercept infantry.

    Pike is awfull in intercepting good melee units charge. Just run trial battle - they can lose 15-20% at start. Spear wall, as well stakes, useless vs melee, it's seems.

    I tested various combos various inf vs inf for HOURS. Both SS and Vanilla.
    And, funny stuff - best way to charge as infantry - always SINGLE click.
    They do not break formartion and charge is devastating.

    Deploying:
    Ctrl+I - selecting all infantry and deploy it, using shift+drag using shift+2 formation, thus, forming squares. Or even columns! Trust me, it's not that important. Your main goal is to achieve very thick front.
    Even if effectively lowering your charge potential - you also lowering casualties versus charge.
    Main purpose of thick formation - whenever your unit force enemy unit route - another enemy in several paces, not miles away.

    Place archers in front of your units in loose formation. Never bring many archers - scotts have uber awful archers. Their purpose - to plant stakes at your flanks, and for make some salvos, then cowardly retreat.

    Cavalry, beside general - lightest one, to chasing routers and flank charges

    Battle

    Force them advance. It's main task. If they have trebi's - drag one archer unit in thiniest line and loose formation - let trebis to waste all shots.

    If they advance their archers - use cavalry in loose formation.
    If they advance with cavalry archers - use cavalry AND general.
    Never use flaming arrows if you advancing cavalry - it's asking for ff casualties.

    And now they advance.

    Push up pike whenever you see cavalry, sword vs everything else.
    After charge exchanges, bring nearby units to help, so it's like several charges in one unit. Whenever you see enemy routs, check fast which your unit started to move - immediately change his target to nearest.

    Once you forced them to attack your infantry core - you won.
    Scotland pretty much destroys everything in infantry division, having best pikes and swords available.
    Also, you always can fill ranks with various types of infantry, because you really have many.

    Obduchaers (sp?) destroy French Lance, and trust me, i dont know another infantry unit, able to do this.
    Noble swordsman best heavy infantry in game (alas, in SS with rc1.3 Imperial Knights seem to own them )

    I dont mentioned their great morale aswell
    Last edited by gogis; September 03, 2007 at 11:58 AM.

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