- Discuss IBFD Here -

[Drtad]

I am loving this new version. However, I have been unable to get through one particular CTD as Armenia, my AAR game, at the siege of Pityus. My army compositions is made of Rhamiks, Aspet Cavalry, and Azat Infantry. The Romans have a variety of cavalry and legions (Armeniaca and Macedonica?). When the Romans overrun my peasant levies and take the city (over 70% casualties on their side, 100% on mine), the game CTD's with no error message. I am playing with Sack of Rome scripts (which seem to be the safest).

[Drtad]

Never mind, I got past the CTD! (well, you should be able to tell because I posted Chapter 2 of my AAR)

[Mylae]

hm drtad i guess it was a random ctd ought to some thing still to fix...
no idea by now what causedit. maybe some trait-related question (assumption of a non-existant trait by a leader in the battle?)

[Jimmy Kay]

I have a couple of things I feel I need to add - some sugestions - actually just one :

there is common knoledge that the western roman empire did fell not just because of the barbarian invasion , but from civil strife ...emperors were weak & lost battles , land or did not pay there soldiers - soldiers rissed against them , named their CO emperor & fouth against imperial authourity - till they were either crushed or the old emperor was deposed ...either of wich usually happened with fair ease unless the barbarians made it difficult for the oposing rival emperors & their arimies to confrunt on the battle field -

for example - Constantine the Great was a rebel leader who ultimatelly managed to effectivally take power as the only roman emperor...& the Constantine were faced with in the mod is actually the same kind of rebel , basically ...only he is stuck in gaul & cannot march against Rome as Britain as mutinied against him & he has to face the francs & burgunds

one of the fact that was crucial in the eastern empire's survival was the nature of the emperor's power , whille in the west the emperor had to contend bouth with his military & his Senate - either of with being places were conspirations could form to overthrow the emperor , in the east the main problem was the millitary eficiency & the troops loyalty related to it (mainlly because the local aristocracy didn't have the prestige and tradition of the old republican Senate)


the ideea I have for a more actual recreation of the specific period is to somehow implement the numerous rebelions of the troops ...& just lowering of a certain general does not help really much ...the metod I generally use to get ridd of the problem is to remove him from comand & mach him up with at least 1 other loyal general , in my asault armies

what I think may be done in respect to that : add some kind of traits that really make the general rebel fairlly quiqlly after he aquired his "taste for power"

add some specific trigers for those huge loyalty decreasers...& now that I think of it - even troop morale decreases :
- a huge negative cash balance ( I whent to almost -20 k in my first 10 turns as the western empire - cause I was spend more than I ..had with my millitary - & it all got better when I lost many of the troops I had to crush the visigots & take back Spain from the vandals, who needles to say ...got pretty much wooped as well ...& THERE"S NO WAY IN HELL my troops would of fouth that bravelly if I would of not payd them AT ALL , for SO long )

- having consecutive defeats makes a certain army /general loose moral / loyalty

- losing cities one after another (for example another neat trick to get by as I started playing was to cut my losses & widraw ony to itally & north africa - but abandoning ROMAN lands , from some/ most of my troops might of been recruited , should of decreaseded the loyalty /morale of my troops & generals - as I would of been seen as an INCOMPETENT & a COWARD )

- a cristian emperor should have very unloyal pagan generals, & viceversa - I MUST state that I enjoied the conversion traits - nice touch

- maybe decreasing loyalty not from the distance from a army /province to Rome , but from the distance from that army /province to the emperor
so that , to increase the loyalty of a certain region you should spend some time with your emperor in the neibourhood

-and finally , it would be nice if it wasn't a must that an emperor must have a chosen heir during his reign ...there were cases of great unreast wich were cause by the death of an emperor with no heir ...or losing bouth your emperor & his heir in the same battle for example
( the caesar was an heir asociated to the reign during the life of the emperor , so that he might gain suport & ease the transition )
the only downside of all of this would only be that the weeker would get weeaker ...in a domino kind of effect - wich endeed hapened with the western empire ...emperors gambeled & lost ...& they were replaced by rebel leaders - & in the proces the wholle concept of an empire gott in such a way degreaded that emperors would have more faith in the loyalty of merceneries than in that of native troops - cause mercenaries asked only for money , not glory liek native troops

I would like to add that the decreasing loyalty if you have a negative balance is a thing I experienced playing MTW2 Stainless Steal - if have in one turn - 1400 , your generals start to quiestion your judgement & choose either side - some get a huge increase in loyalty - some get hugelly disloyal
but I could still get away with it cause I used to pair up my generals - or even keep 4-5 in an army ...& used the rebel ones as kamikadze sledgehammer heavy cavalry strike forces against the enemy battlelines - if they would of died I would of just solved a posible rebelion problem ...if they survived ...were then I could always find a new battle to used them in (so it is tehnically posible on a MTW2 engine, maybe it can be done here too)

Also I think losing the western empire rebel faction might be a mistake ...why ? because there was no other faction in that era to have so many dinastic problems ..I'm not sure of the numbers but I think they got to the point they a rebelion like every year or so ...a fact that helped a lot the invading tribes

so , maybe it would be a nice thing to have besides the constintine empire & the romano - british a roman faction that would apear each time a dicontented roman general wishes to take his army from a border province , to visit the Coloseum - in Rome ....and as a wise thing I read in the loading screens in my 4 year time of playing Rome: "nothing hurts an enemy more than desertion"...just imagine being on campaign & trying to reconquer a city /figth some vandals, francs ...& the army ,you barelly managed to raise against your foes, rebels & marches back to Rome ..very chalanging

maybe if you get to choose between the new rebel faction & the old loyalist one - that would be damn cool , & after the rebel faction wold win & distroy the former faction , it could clame as she is the true one...but those last things ..I think there so hard coded there's no way in hell I can get them ...but just throwing an ideea around..who knows ...stranger things have happened

I don't know in what measure you will be able to implement what I wish...but I thouth my ideeas could inspire improve in some way the mod ...so I gave it a shot ...but I am hopefull you would manage to do something to make me grine my teeth whille I because I loose troops /battles /land PLEASE MAKE ME play more historically acurate...as long as it is at real as it gets - I'll be there fighting

PS those german axethrowers ...nasty bite if ..you let them
I found out they don't enjoi that much cavalery charges & my hunnic feoederaty with their arrows (gues the no armor thingi can be a dragg )

PS 2 why do we need 3 tipes of recruitable cilibetarii (I sure about the wrong spelling, sorry, need to edit ) in the same city ? is that historicle acurate ?

sorry for the long post and any posible spelling mistakes ...english is not my native language & I did get a little hotheaded & excided while disecting the problem /s

[Jimmy Kay]

you've clicked twice - double posting

Jimmy's edit : sorry , mate ...net lagging & my fault 4 not being extra carefull ...I will try to keep my nb of posts to a minimum , as I do tend to make them large

[Mylae]

your ideas are interesting. will see how ot implement something soon...

[PSEUDO ROMANUS]

Do you guys have any idea what the scale of the IBFD map is? Just curious.

[Beetlecat]

My horse archers aren't circling!

I've started up a new RB campaign, and have noticed that my two units of horse archers (Alan Cav) are no longer circling when the Cantabrian Circle function is enabled. What's up with that?

I can't say for sure if this is an 'as of 7.04' thing, but I do remember being able to do it before.

Can anyone else test this to see? There are some other oddities that I'll post in the main forum.

[SeniorBatavianHorse]

Yes, they performed a cantabrian circle on my 'Romano-British' AAR - I have pics to prove it!

[Beetlecat]

But that was back using 7.03 or before, no? I'll have to dig back and install IB again and not patch up to 7.04 to verify.

[SeniorBatavianHorse]

oh, of course. You're right. Doh.

[Beetlecat]

But I've noticed they have lovely lances now! Maybe it's hard to ride in a circle with that damn thing.

[SeniorBatavianHorse]

Those Alans are so devious - who knows what they will do next?

[Ijontichy Watanabe]

Hi, the file in Filefront is 143MB instead of the reported 77, sth wrong?
Some questions while I download and install:
Imperium Constantini had only paved roads and no available upgrades in 7.03, hs this been changed?
What is the difference between legio lanciari, palatine guard, auxilia palatina, etc. The unit descriptions are strange. I don know if they actually fight with lances, or if they have any noticeable anti-cav bonus like Comitatenses supposedly have.
I seem to be able to recruit plumbatarii only in Hispania, right?
Game crashes all the time, but only in battles or right after battles. I believe in older versions you could activate or deactivate each script separately, but in 7.03 you have much fewer options. Has this been changed?
For stability purposes, which options should I deactivate (vegetation, skies, etc.)?

Thank you for this great mod!

[FFJean]

Dear all,

I am currently playing IBFD 7.04 as the ERE and I have a number of questions and remarks, as I do not understand some of the features of the mod, although, as I already highlighted, I really love it and enjoy very much playing it. These questions / remarks are really aimed at enhancing an already great mod.

My questions are very much centered around the recruitment rationale and the discrepancies between the same barracks level (4 levels: Training Ground, Militia Barracks, Comites Barracks, Palatinae Barracks) output depending on the cities:
- bowmen: there are a large number of cities that can train bowmen (Sagitarii / Sagitarii Graves) until Barracks level 2 included (Militia Barracks) but this ability disappear at Level 3 (Comites Barracks), which seems very strange.
- legions type: depending on cities, they can train different seemingly similar legion types, without a clear rationale for it (at least, neither obvious to me nor explained in the units description). These units are those described as linked to the old Legio system, namely: Auxilia Cohors & Legio Vexillatio; while, those described as part of the the "late system" (Legio Comitatenses, Legio Lanciarii & Legio Palatina, which are noted as being "Eastern" and Legio Palatinae) are not available everywhere, which looks equally strange. This goes very much against the standardisation of troops that IMHO was one of the advantages of the Roman Empire, even at the end, at least inside the ERE. Moreover, the different Legio types are not region-specific. I wonder if this is meant on purpose, and if yes, what would be the rationale. On an even stranger (but maybe made on purpose) side, I can't seem to be able to complement some of the Legio Comitatenses units in cities which do possess the ability to train Legio Comitatenses!!!
- The 3 Clibanirii units which "look" different but appear the same "stat-wise".

Would it not make sense to do the following:
- on a city per city basis, to allow the training of units that can be trained at Training Ground, Militia Barracks and Comites Barracks up Palatinae Barracks? Eg, if a city can train Sagitarii at Militia Barracks, to ensure that it can still do it at Comites and Palatinae Barracks level?
- not to allow the training of old system "Legio Vexillatio" units, but only to have some of these units as part of the original set up of ERE forces?
- maybe to allow at Militia Barracks level, everywhere, if necessary, the training of Auxilia Cohors? And maybe these Auxilia Cohors should look a bit less attractive, stat-wise? They are almost equivalent to Legio Comitatenses and Legio Palatinae but there maintenance cost is only 2/3.
- to allow in the "European" part of the ERE the training of Legio Comitatenses units only, starting at Comites Barracks level, while the "Asian" part of the ERE Comites Barracks would only allow Legio Palatinae? With in some cities the allowance to train Legio Lanciarii?
- to allow only in some "Imperial" cities (a first list could be maybe Constantinople, Corinth, Alexandria and Antiocha only) the training of Legio Palatinae as well as Scholae Palatinae?
- what about the 3 Clibanarii units?

Just a few thoughts, what do you think about it?

FFJean

[FFJean]

Just adding a few thoughts on the bowmen side, an option may be to have Sagitarii in each city, with Sagitarii Graves only available in some true ERE cities and other types (eg Desert Archers) in specific recruiting areas?

Just another question, still on the bowmen, it is said in many bowmen descriptions that "eastern archers are equipped with composite bows while western ones are equipped with simpler bows" while I do not see this reflected in any stat. Would it not make sense to have "eastern archers" with a longer range & higher kill stats but their bows useless in Damped conditions, while there would be available other, "western" types, with normal range and kill stats but useable in all weather conditions?

Yours sincerely,

Jean

[FFJean]

Just an additional comment: I have not yet been able to train Plumbatarii units, and I wonder whether this Legio or Legio Comitatenses would better be the Western one (as per my comment above).

To clarify what my idea regarding Imperial cities only training Legio Palatinae as well as Scholae Palatinae, I mean in fact to limit the 4th barrack level (Palatinae) to these cities.

Dear Ramon, dear Mylae, dear all, sorry to post many messages, I am new to this and want to help but fear that my English may not be very clear to you (I am French).

[Mylae]

@FFJean
do not worry - your english is pretty good
i think the english motherlanguage are not soo much on this forum...

[FFJean]

Thank you Mylae. I am always fearing to be misunderstood!

[Ramon Gonzales y Garcia]

I have delayed answering here as this will take a lot of time...

Dear Ramon, dear Mylae, dear all, sorry to post many messages, I am new to this and want to help but fear that my English may not be very clear to you (I am French).

actually, as Mylae said, your English is pretty good, so no worries there

Just adding a few thoughts on the bowmen side, an option may be to have Sagitarii in each city, with Sagitarii Graves only available in some true ERE cities and other types (eg Desert Archers) in specific recruiting areas?

they shouldn't disappear from the recruiting roster, this is an rror on my part. my initial idea is to make them Romanized in higher level buildings, but probably limiting further the Armoured Archers and using region specific archers might be a good idea.

Just another question, still on the bowmen, it is said in many bowmen descriptions that "eastern archers are equipped with composite bows..., "western" types, with normal range and kill stats but useable in all weather conditions?

:hmmm: now that you pointed this out it is a very good idea, it may not really come out what we hope it will be but maybe tweak the ground bonuses a bit...

re:Legionary units
Legio Lanciarii/ Legio Plumbatarii are simply designations for Comitatenses units, they do not have specialized roles. Late Roman Army legiones were armed w/ spatha, thrown weapon(plumbata (possibly thrown with the aid of a sling, not by hand)/veruta/spicula) and (this is not sure) lancea (some maintain the lancea is a javelin). It would be ridiculous to be able to recruit a Lanciarii unit and a Comitatenses unit together as they are exactly the same. In modern terms it'd be like recruiting 101st airborne 'screaming eagles' and 82nd airborne in one city since one unit screams like eagles.

the reason why there are several comitatenses units is that a more realistic recruitment scheme would be like this:
milites (auxiliaries)
pseudocomitatenses - usually milites that have been attached to field army
comitatenses

that's it. in my personal opinion it leaves the Romans a bit bland.
making a separate comitatenses model for each legio would also be too much (the ND has enough data to be able to make unique shield for each legio so this is actually possible), would take up too much DMB space, and would be hell on recruitment. so I settled for something in between. if ur interested, try the simplified recruitment scheme option, that one as only one clibinarii model and one comitatenses model used all throughout the empire.

re: Clibinarii, I'll be following jh's idea in IJ and rename them to something more unique, but still its like the Comitateses units,they all serve the same purpose, they simply look different.

allin all though, thanks for the suggestions, please keep them coming, maybe we'll be able to find a middle ground somewhere

re:JimmyKay
interesting ideas, we'll see what we can do but some are probably impossible to do