Sooo...how is the AI?

[Zendjir]

The title sums up my question; how is the battle/campaign AI in the expansion? Is is basically the same MTWII AI that we all know or has it improved significantly? Is it still possible to steamroll the enemy with one 20 stack army that defeats all in it's path or have you guys actually lost significant battles? How is the diplomacy, the siege AI, etc.?

If there have not been major changes in the AI i'm not buying the expansion. I find MTWII waaay too easy, even with the use of various AI mods and handicapping myself by giving my generals -2 command and the enemy +5 line of sight. The game quickly turns into a chore after the first few critical turns, I just can't lose.

So post your AI evaluation here!

[edders]

I havn't got it yet, but according to reviews are other user's posts"

Battle Map:

Charge still doesn't work right
Pathfinding a bit off
General still runs in on his own and gets splatted
Battle AI in general MAY be improved - not conclusive yet

Campaign Map:

Better AI unit composition (i.e. less of the old full-stack archer/catapult armies in vanilla M2)
AI still splits its forces poorly - cities often left virtually undefended, tiny stacks of troops wandering about instead or merging, though forts are apparantly oftten filled with troops.


That's all I remember. I'll see when I get the game myself.

[Zendjir]

Thanks. It doesn't sound too good. I'll be sure to watch user reviews on AI performance. Can anyone who has the game comment on the AI's performance?

[surprisedbyjoy]

I have to report, unfortunately, that the campaign AI is a little disappointing. I am playing on E/E (which I always do when I start playing a game because I really, really, really hate to lose a lot when I first buy a game), but in my Ireland campaign, Norway has invaded the islands around scotland, and there's a stack and a half sitting on one of the islands between Eire and Britain that's been enjoying the scenery for about ten years. Wales just sent about a quarter stack to that same Island, and they also seemed enchanted by the beautiful hills or something, because nobody's fighting.

On the battle AI, however, I have to say they've made an improvement. I've already had to counter-flank during several different battles. I almost got pwnd on the first one, but I was quick on my feet (I gotta stop using triple speed!). Took so many losses that I had to put off sacking Dublin for about two years, but those lousy rebels who refused to recognize the justly elected King Brian O'Conner go theirs in the end.

surprisedbyjoy

[Tucker Dan]

I honestly can't remember vanilla battle AI as I really did not play too much until some mods started coming out, but one thing from vanilla M2 that is still here are the stacks consisting of 4 horse archers, 4 peasant archers, a general and the rest ballistas and catapults. Its not as bad as i remember M2 was because they send well balanced stacks sometimes, but other times its a ton of siege equipment.

[DavidtheDuke]

Ugh. Well I was pretty sure this is how it would turn out. Looks like the mods will fix it etc. Well unless they have a pretty good hardcode reason for switching to Kingdoms, I'm not going to buy it just for pretty helmets and faction leaders with superpowers. The whole "they jump to another game to make money" point is moot if they only "make money" by advancing the color and polygons of the screen, and not the actual game. Controlling multiple armies would be nice if I could handle over 4k troops, anyway.

[crazyj]

I dunno Dave. I'm playing on Hard/VH and the AI has so far been terrific at charging my weakest units, trying to flank me, exploiting mismatches, and keeping me damn frustrated in trying to get to their missile units behind the melee ones.

So far this has been true of both my limited Americas campaigns and my more extensive Norway campaign in Britain. Not only that, but the enemy (specifically the Scots) keep throwing good armies at me, laying ambushes, invading poorly defended towns (by sea if need be) and in general causing me to always be in need of another few thousands bucks for soldiers as they really are spreading me thin.

There are still some issues (for instance, when attacking with the bodyguard, the general seems to run ahead of the main body of cavalry again) but in general its pretty solid.

Some battles have been really long for their size, especially sieges. Not because of lag, but because the enemy is doing a good job protecting their walls and town squares and in general getting you at the chokepoints.

[Prof]

I noticed in the campaign that the AI supports their allies and almost instantly takes revenge for captured settlements...either by getting them back by diplomacy (not bribery) or by force.

I once captured nowgorod and they sent a messenger offering me 2000 money-things ^^ in order to get the city back, I accepted it and the next turn we were already allies, but I was at war with the guys who have been allied with them before I attacked them...those dudes start to piss me off right now

and another time I captured hannover from the HRE, killed their king and 3 turns later a full stack army of feudal knights, dismounted feudal knights, sergeants and mailed knights stood before my gates and I only had enough time to recruit 2 units of spear militia...

[hellheaven1987]

Depends... Generally the AI in my game tend to store a large garrison in their city, make me unwilling to siege them... (well, my style is not fielding a large army...). On the other hand, they keep sending priests/whatever agents to disrupte my regions rather than army, left me little time to conquer new land...

[CartmantheLame]

Well, the AI did something that was smart in one way, but dumb in another.

Playing as Ireland on the Brittania campaign. I was marching towards the English fortress on the east coast with a full stack under my King's command, and another half stack in reinforcement. Along the path to the fortress there was a British fort with a full stack and an army with about a little less than half a stack.

So, I tried attack the half stack and the fort twice and was absolutely owned. The fort full stack and the half stack with superior units was just more than I could take and they knew it.

So I retreated and rebuilt. When I returned, I went around the fort full stack and half stack and took the fortress that had about 1/4 a stack.

This was the last British territory in Ireland so they took their full stack and last general, put him on a boat and left. I thought that was interesting. That full stack went and conquered a Norwegian island. I haven't played much past that.

[crazyj]

Well, the AI did something that was smart in one way, but dumb in another.

Playing as Ireland on the Brittania campaign. I was marching towards the English fortress on the east coast with a full stack under my King's command, and another half stack in reinforcement. Along the path to the fortress there was a British fort with a full stack and an army with about a little less than half a stack.

So, I tried attack the half stack and the fort twice and was absolutely owned. The fort full stack and the half stack with superior units was just more than I could take and they knew it.

So I retreated and rebuilt. When I returned, I went around the fort full stack and half stack and took the fortress that had about 1/4 a stack.

This was the last British territory in Ireland so they took their full stack and last general, put him on a boat and left. I thought that was interesting. That full stack went and conquered a Norwegian island. I haven't played much past that.

That's freaking awesome. They abandoned Ireland to your ravages and went and grabbed some compensation from the Norwegians. Recalled by the King hehe.

The AI continues to do a good job in my campaign as well, striking at weak points on the campaign map as well as in battle.

[Juggernaut]

Frankly I really don't care much about the AI improvements.
No matte what CA do, mods like Ultimate AI is going to be better.

[bungus]

No, CA made the game and has access to the source code. But they seem more interested in graphics and gimmicks. Lousy the way they didn't even touch the vanilla game

[Sol Invictus]

I've only played several turns of the Teutonic Campaign on H/H, but the AI seems fairly good so far. I really need to play more though, before I would swear by it.

[Kaelic]

I used the Retrofit mod to continue playing a GC vanilla game of Venice I had started on Hard/VH. Since I was currently in wars (was playing it earlier today before installing Kingdoms), I immediately found the enemy stacks to be far better organised with spearmen, heavy infantry, ranged and siege weapons. I also found the enemy in battle taking far more advantage of my "mistakes". By mistakes I actually mean doing things the AI never use to respond to from my previous view, such as flanking far more, horses ignoring spearmen, losing waves of heavy infantry to horses, hammering my lines with catapults etc.

I also found they used their stacks far more effectively, immediately I was facing retreating multiple stacks who would in a turn or two return and strike me from multiple sides together. Alternatively, I've now seen armies I am chasing buy up loads of mercs and turn to face me. Now either I am very naive, or these are new improvements over pre-Kingdoms.

[gs00z21]

Well I have dipped into each campaign atleast a little simply because I can't control myself lol but this is what I have experienced from least to most as far as how much I experienced (how long i played that campaign)
All on H/VH



SPOILER ALERT!!







Brittania: Me and my buddy played hotseat for a few hours because he came with me to get the game ect ect. Ireland (my friend) has a good amount of money to start with and the English did go back and forth with them but England did not seem to do a good job of holding Ireland off. I played as Norway and it was pretty hard due to lack of funds. Scotland really suprised me attacking numerous islands i owned and suceeded, I was impressed by the stacks of units scotland was sending at me and it really was a challenge. I didn't get too far into this campaign.

Holy Lands: I played as Antioch because their infantry looks cool and it really was a free for all. I just kept taking rebel cities and then even some turkish ones with no problems at all. But then 4 armies including 1 general with a full stack surrounded and attacked my french hero and i took down every army except the last one..if you think heros are invincible...they ain't..don't make the same mistake I made lol. Other than that 1 battle the turks or any1 for that matter didn't seem to mess with me much.

Teutonic: I played as the Teutonic Order and it feels like I played as this campaign for a while simply because of how many things were going on in each turn but at turn 13 I killed Lithuania's King and Prince whiping out Lithuania because that was all they had left. If was difficult...not going to lie. Lithuania seemed to surround me constantly on the campaign map out of nowhere and their armies of cavalry skirmishers and archers are a real pain..make sure you always have cavalry. I was in debt for a while but this was definately the most challenging campaign for me dispite lithuania's stupidity in killing off all of their family members so quickly.

Americas: I'm playing as the Apaches and really loving the campaign. I was going through all of america with spys trying to conquer all of north america and as soon as i got to florida the french showed up. As soon as they took as city I declared a warpath on them and hit them with about 80% of my army. This left my western part of north america wide open for invasion and sure enough the chimichecas (spelling??) sweeped through but now with my new founded technology with horses and guns I am beating them back...not easy considering they have full stacks just about roaming everywhere. Surprisingly...beating the french was very easy compared to fighting these guys.

[hammi]

Is there more AI parameters for modders to play around with ?

For me, this is the only reason to buy the expansion. CA's design goals are so far from what I find enjoyable, but if it adds more parameters and switches for modders to play around with.. It will be worth purchasing, as Grandviz has stated that the continued improvement of AI modding needs more accessible parameters.