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Thread: Do 'sunbeams' in Kingdoms loading screens show whom CA says are the protagonists? (SPOILERS)

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  1. #1

    Default Do 'sunbeams' in Kingdoms loading screens show whom CA says are the protagonists? (SPOILERS)

    I looked through all four campaigns and the image of sunbeams (like those you see from Christian images of Jesus or any Christian postcard) is portrayed in most loading screens. It seems to be an artistical style, and somewhat similar to how Narnia and the movie 300 is with the art of the loading screens. I just think or know that whomever has the 'sunbeam' on them seems to be the 'good' guy or the protagonist. There does seem to be a contrast between what are deemed as the forces of darkness (bad) and the forces of light (good).

    I noticed the sunbeam almost in every circumstance appears on the right side.

    Americas campaign.
    1. In the loading screens, the Apache have a nice sunset like image, and you can see orange sunbeams shining down on the Apache armies.
    2. Another loading screen shows an Aztec/Mayan temple city screen and the whole image the clouds are dark, but there is a cloud break that shows this ray of sunlight descending upon the temple.
    3. A third image shows a Spanish mounted conquistador killing a Jaguar Warrior, and the Spanish conquistador on the horse is 'in' the sunlight but his face is totally dark and you cannot even see his face (yes, I know if something is silhouetting a bright light source they will be dark, but I think this was intentional) while a sunbeam shines upon the Jaguar Warrior who was just killed.
    4. The forth image shows a bunch of mounted Spanish dragoons shooting, they are located on the left, but the clouds are dark overhead and there is only alittle orange clouds over the Spanish dragoons as if it is trying to say the sunlight cannot reach down and touch the Spanish dragoons. There were no Native Americans present in the image of the Spanish dragoons.
    5. The fifth image shows Aztec spearmen running towards the camera, and the clouds are dark overhead but there is a cloudbreak and the sun is shining at the Aztec spearmen.
    So far the images in general I have seen on the loading screens show the Spanish either block the sunlight and those whom they killed were touched by the sunlight, or the light doesn't shine on them at all. Also, the Native Americans and their temple were touched by sunlight. So the loading screens from what I got were undoubtedly:

    Spanish = bad
    Native Americans = good
    French and English = not shown

    Another worthy note is the screen which shows an enemy general dying. It shows mountains in the background, and it shows some dead horsemen with white colored horses (maybe thats their armor on them) and tattered flag although it didn't resemble anyone flag. There is sun beams shing as usual on the right. I could assume most likely they were Spanish horses (but they could be Apache or Chichimeca but most likely not) but the sun rays seemed to be shining down. At first I thought it was shining down upon the dead Spanish horses (probably a General's bodyguard) but I saw there were 3 hawks flying overhead and the sunrays could have been shining down upon those hawks, somehows giving some subtle messages than this Spaniard's (or Europeans) death was a good thing as the hawks represent death. This seems a more likely scenario as it fits in with the idea that the Spanish dragoons not having light shine on them or the Spanish conquistador with a black face you cannot even see 'covering' the sun while that sun shows a light ray upon a dying Jaguar Warrior.

    Britannica:
    1. One had a village on fire, and there were Norse Huscarls riding. The sun was shining upon the village.
    2. Another one had a bunch of English knights, and the sun was shining upon them in those classic raybeams.
    3. I think there was one where English armies had a town besieged and firing trebuchets, but the sun was shining on neither the army nor the town being attacked.
    4. There is a small town with Scottish pikemen walking towards it, good clouds overhead but no sunrays.

    I forgot if they were any others for Brittanica. But basically I think the English did have one image where they had the sun cast their heavenly light rays upon them. The rest of the images that involved Scots though I don't think they neither had lightrays nor dark clouds with blocked sunlight (or dark faces).
    My opinion although I could be wrong:
    England = good
    Scotland, Wales, Ireland = neutral
    Norway = bad

    Crusader Campaign

    1. One image had pictures of black suited Canons of the Holy Sephuchre on it, and sunbeams were shining down upon them from a cloudy but broken sky.
    2. An image had some type of Knights Templar-like unit on horses, and the sun beams were shining upon them too.
    3. Another shown Byzantine flamethrowers shooting their flame at dismounted knight units, possibly Venetian units, but the sky was like what I said about when it showed Scotland in the Britannica campaign, it wasn't dark but there was no lightbeams shining on either Byzantium or the Venetians/KoJ/Antioch whoever they were.
    4. Another one was confusing, it showed Turkish units I think and they were fighting the KoJ or Antioch Dismounted Knights units, and the light was shining on the right where the Turks were and the Crusaders were on the left. It is hard to tell where where the sun was shining.

    Crusaders make the most sense to have sunbeam imagery, as it remind me of Jesus and Muhammad, and I like to associate it with heavenly images in the Holy Land. This it reminds me of going to a Christian bookstore and seeing all these sun rays on all their ware.
    Number 4 though was the most confusing.
    Crusaders = mostly good (except possibly one image)
    Byzantium = neutral
    Venetians (maybe) = neutral
    Turks/Egyptians = unknown (it could have been shining on both turks/crusaders at the same time, but they could also be 'good' at the same time as Crusaders it depends on how you look at it)

    Tutonic Knights
    1. One image shows some mounted Tutonic Knights charging straight at the camera. The clouds in the background have a sunrays coming forth, not unto the Tutonics but behind them so it gives the impress as if the Tutonic knights are literally shining sunrays from them rather than being touched by it.
    2. Another shows images of Novgorod and Tutons fighting, and the Novgorod are on the left and the clouds above them are dark. The Tutons are coming in on the right, and the sun is shining upon them, but the sunrays are not shining upon the Novgorodians.
    3. Another shows an image of Lithuanian soldiers, and the sun is shining upon them and there is a city of the background and I suppose it is the Lithuanians own city as they are coming from it. However, the units look to be in heavy metal armor (most of them) so I am assuming these Lithuanian units are already those who are converted to Christianity.

    I forgot the rest for Tutons if there were any more.

    Tutonic Knights = good
    Novgorod = bad
    Lithuania = good but only if they are Chrisitianized, otherwise unknown
    The other factions = I don't remember what their alignment is or I don't think they were shown in any of the loading screen images.

    Even though some may say this seems like a waste of time to look into Kingdom's loading screen artwork, I enjoyed typing up all 20 minutes of it putting depth into it. It is just something that I had on my mind and hoped to promote good discussion. Artwork can reveal a lot of symbolism you know.
    Last edited by Kiki52; August 30, 2007 at 02:15 AM.

  2. #2
    edders's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Do 'sunbeams' in Kingdoms loading screens show whom CA says are the protagonists? (SPOILERS)

    Overanalysing a bit, especially when you're working off 5 screens per campaign.

  3. #3
    Magic Man's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Do 'sunbeams' in Kingdoms loading screens show whom CA says are the protagonists? (SPOILERS)

    Someone thinks too much.

    Faaaar too much.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Do 'sunbeams' in Kingdoms loading screens show whom CA says are the protagonists? (SPOILERS)

    Ok here are some images to prove my point.

    You can see images the Native Americans have light shining on them, but the Spanish in the forth image you do not.









  5. #5

    Default Re: Do 'sunbeams' in Kingdoms loading screens show whom CA says are the protagonists? (SPOILERS)

    If anything I'd think that'd be a vague reference to the Sun God and the "golden" motif of the Americas.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Do 'sunbeams' in Kingdoms loading screens show whom CA says are the protagonists? (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lionel-Richie View Post
    If anything I'd think that'd be a vague reference to the Sun God and the "golden" motif of the Americas.
    Later if I have time I might show the Crusader images, where they also show sunbeams similar to the Americas one above. It shows the Crusaders having sunrays shine down upon them as if the Lord God himself was shining upon them.

    Anyways I am not sure who fixed up these images over at CA. It could have been possible they could have outsourced this artwork to another professional artist to do for them, who doesn't necessarily have the same ideas as many other employees at CA does on things.

    Anyways irregardless of what it means, I still do think it looks quite nice and a nice change from the vanilla MTW2 loading screens.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Do 'sunbeams' in Kingdoms loading screens show whom CA says are the protagonists? (SPOILERS)

    No, it's just the way the composition of the images worked itself out.

    You really are reading too much into nothing.

  8. #8
    The Mongol's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Do 'sunbeams' in Kingdoms loading screens show whom CA says are the protagonists? (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sher Khan View Post
    No, it's just the way the composition of the images worked itself out.

    You really are reading too much into nothing.
    Agreed.

    It's just a filter effect, calm down O_O

  9. #9
    edders's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Do 'sunbeams' in Kingdoms loading screens show whom CA says are the protagonists? (SPOILERS)

    Here's a possibilty: maybe they have rays of light shining down on them because

    IT LOOKS AWESOME

    'nuff said.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Do 'sunbeams' in Kingdoms loading screens show whom CA says are the protagonists? (SPOILERS)

    yeah i dont think ca was secretly trying to tell us all spain is bad, it just makes the picture look nice lol
    we shall never surrender! - Churchill

    A disorderly mob is no more an army than a heap of building materials is a house - Socrates

  11. #11

    Default Re: Do 'sunbeams' in Kingdoms loading screens show whom CA says are the protagonists? (SPOILERS)

    Yea, methinks you are digging too deep. I think the images are simply awesome, and properly convey the "epic grandeur" of the wars and civilizations.

    My favorite part of the OP was
    "Spanish = bad
    Native Americans = good
    French and English = not shown"

    LOL, now what to make of that eh?


    A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow.
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    --Sgt. Schultz

  12. #12

    CA Developer Icon Re: Do 'sunbeams' in Kingdoms loading screens show whom CA says are the protagonists? (SPOILERS)

    Conspiracy of the year!

    -wikiman

  13. #13

    Default Re: Do 'sunbeams' in Kingdoms loading screens show whom CA says are the protagonists? (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by wikiman View Post
    Conspiracy of the year!

    -wikiman
    Haha, CA should make subtle references to this in games from now on.


  14. #14

    Default Re: Do 'sunbeams' in Kingdoms loading screens show whom CA says are the protagonists? (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalos View Post
    Haha, CA should make subtle references to this in games from now on.
    It seems like alot of media these days seem to plagiarize off of the 300 style artwork, which that movie plagiarized off of Narnia and Kingdom of Heaven to some extent. Now the movie Beowulf and Stardust and the Golden Compass seem to plagiarize off of that too. Not that it is bad to copy off an artwork style for things like this.

    @bungus

    What surprises me is this artist whoever did this artwork has a different view of what those who wrote CA's unit descriptions and the intro movies, which portray Native Americans in a bad light. The Native Americans are the good guys in this artwork, but the Crusaders in the Crusade campaign and the Tutons and English (in Britannica) are also good guys.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Do 'sunbeams' in Kingdoms loading screens show whom CA says are the protagonists? (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by wikiman View Post
    Conspiracy of the year!

    -wikiman
    Yeah...And if you look closer at one of the clouds in the americas campaign, you can see aliens from Roswell...

  16. #16
    The Mongol's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Do 'sunbeams' in Kingdoms loading screens show whom CA says are the protagonists? (SPOILERS)

    Ahem, it's just a weather balloon folks. Nothing to see here.

  17. #17
    The Border Reiver's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Do 'sunbeams' in Kingdoms loading screens show whom CA says are the protagonists? (SPOILERS)

    Originally Posted by wikiman
    Conspiracy of the year!

    -wikiman
    Quote Originally Posted by Generals_Bodyguard View Post
    Yeah...And if you look closer at one of the clouds in the americas campaign, you can see aliens from Roswell...
    You beat me to it....that is exactly what I was going to say..........you're not reading my thoughts now are you?

    If you are....you'd know I am extremely jealous that I don't have Kingdoms for another week!!!

    @Kiki52........please don't study philosophy at university anymore, you see things that aren't really there after a while ....Really though.....thanks for posting those screens...I think the current loading screens by CA are their best job ever!!!

  18. #18

    Default Re: Do 'sunbeams' in Kingdoms loading screens show whom CA says are the protagonists? (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Border Reiver View Post
    You beat me to it....that is exactly what I was going to say..........you're not reading my thoughts now are you?

    If you are....you'd know I am extremely jealous that I don't have Kingdoms for another week!!!

    @Kiki52........please don't study philosophy at university anymore, you see things that aren't really there after a while ....Really though.....thanks for posting those screens...I think the current loading screens by CA are their best job ever!!!
    You're Australian aren't ya? I'm in the same boat...got to wait about a week too...

    But its kinda cool looking at the positive vibe Kingdoms is getting from forumers...I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised...Never epected it to get such hugh praise especially from people who were ranting on about M2TW...

  19. #19

    Default Re: Do 'sunbeams' in Kingdoms loading screens show whom CA says are the protagonists? (SPOILERS)

    Look, its obvious whoever wrote the entries for M2TW has a dirty hard-on for the muslims and everybody else didn't care. And aztecs are basically arabs that live in the jungle

    And it's true you should never trust a Latino with a knife or horse. They're just waiting to claim your yard

  20. #20

    Default Re: Do 'sunbeams' in Kingdoms loading screens show whom CA says are the protagonists? (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by bungus View Post
    Look, its obvious whoever wrote the entries for M2TW has a dirty hard-on for the muslims and everybody else didn't care. And aztecs are basically arabs that live in the jungle
    What the hell

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