Economy

[Dooz]

Hey everyone. First of all I'm peeing myself in anticipation of this mod, but that goes without saying. My question is about how you fine modders have tweaked the campaign in terms of economy and pacing. Basically, is it anything like The Long Road, which I find to be absolutely perfect in terms of balance and challenge? Or will there be gold-a-flowin' and stacks-a-spammin'? What other considerations have gone into the campaign aspect of the mod? Thanks for any info, and I can't wait until that final 2% is completed.

[AdmiringtheEnemyeh?]

Well most of the faction's economies will be based upon gaining cities along the silk road where you can build specific silk road trade buildings. Other than that and many other small/medium changes it's somewhat similar to vanilla.

[Miraj]

Hi Wonderland,

Thanks for the kind words.

One of the first things that AD has worked hard on is setting up a effective cost system. Units are now more expensive, though not prohibitively so to the point of being game-breaking. But you can be assured that forming up a large stack will make a serious impact on your treasury - even after you've established a strong kingdom. And the differences between units (elite vs mediums vs lights) makes choosing which units to recruit quite important. You will see the financial difference between having a cavalry heavy stack of medium/elites vs a more balanced stack made up of weaker units.

Also there are, as AdmiringtheEnemy mentioned, new "buildings" that significantly boost certain regions. The most important being the 3-level "silk road" trade building which turns key cities into economic powerhouses. I recall in a Ghaznavid campaign that one silk road city (herat) was really thriving after i built the silkroad. Then it was attacked by another faction and besieged, next turn my finances dropped massively due to the closure of trade there. So vying over key economic regions will be a very important aspect of the game. Other "buildings" include Indian ocean sea trade, mediteranean sea trade & slave markets.

While I have not had long campaign, so far most of my campaign require me to really look at my cash flow and have prevented me from "stacks-a-spamming".

[Dooz]

Ah, sounds pretty great! I'm hoping it'll be significant enough that losing a battle or even worse, losing an army will be a decisive matter indeed.

Also, I was thinking about how to make armies matter even more and make them more valuable and one way might be to make the replenishing rates for recruitment a lot longer than they currently are, and not have a large maximum available unit pool either. That way you'll have to wait a while to resupply armies and so on and you'll want to conserve as many soldiers as you can. Would you guys give any thought to this sort of recruitment mechanic?

Oh and one more question (sorry!). What's the time scale for turns in the campaign? I'm hoping for at least 4 turns per year as building up characters and having an attachment to them is important I feel. Since the mod aims at a more limited scale, it seems feasible.

[Miraj]

Ah, sounds pretty great! I'm hoping it'll be significant enough that losing a battle or even worse, losing an army will be a decisive matter indeed.

Also, I was thinking about how to make armies matter even more and make them more valuable and one way might be to make the replenishing rates for recruitment a lot longer than they currently are, and not have a large maximum available unit pool either. That way you'll have to wait a while to resupply armies and so on and you'll want to conserve as many soldiers as you can. Would you guys give any thought to this sort of recruitment mechanic?

Oh and one more question (sorry!). What's the time scale for turns in the campaign? I'm hoping for at least 4 turns per year as building up characters and having an attachment to them is important I feel. Since the mod aims at a more limited scale, it seems feasible.

Currently I feel the replenishment rates are just right after coding the EDB. The problem is that the AI sometimes really sends those stacks at you (depending how big he is) and its important that the players can really recruit an army in time. Of course remember that there are some units that are super plentiful and other quite rare. Varying from faction to faction.

Currently the campaign is set to 2 turns per year. I feel that's perfect for now. Since it take a while for 1220 and the mongols to arrive. 2TPY would be around 470 turns. Which I think is just right.

[Aerrol]

I'm hoping for at least 4 turns per year as building up characters and having an attachment to them is important I feel. Since the mod aims at a more limited scale, it seems feasible.

Regardless of what BC is doing, I have to point out that while I feel very much the same way, character aging is hard coded (as far as I know). They age 1 year every two turns. Thus, 2 turns per year makes the most sense, and it is impossible to keep characters alive for more turns, as far as I'm aware. I know this, as I've looked into the same thing. Just a fyi.

[karo]

Regardless of what BC is doing, I have to point out that while I feel very much the same way, character aging is hard coded (as far as I know). They age 1 year every two turns. Thus, 2 turns per year makes the most sense, and it is impossible to keep characters alive for more turns, as far as I'm aware. I know this, as I've looked into the same thing. Just a fyi.

could it be that charcters age evrey winter, and in MTWII one turn it's winter and one turn summer so the charcter age in the evrey winter. I could be wrong

[karo]

I hope it will be not easy like in some mods or vanilla but more in the way of the economie in Eb where you have to use evrey denari right or els you're screwd

[AdmiringtheEnemyeh?]

One of the first things that AD has worked hard on is setting up a effective cost system. Units are now more expensive, though not prohibitively so to the point of being game-breaking. But you can be assured that forming up a large stack will make a serious impact on your treasury - even after you've established a strong kingdom. And the differences between units (elite vs mediums vs lights) makes choosing which units to recruit quite important. You will see the financial difference between having a cavalry heavy stack of medium/elites vs a more balanced stack made up of weaker units.

Great! Stack spamming just makes the game repetitive, so only making a limited amount of troops available in a given amount of time will lead to more use of a variety of units.

[Hissing Fauna]

Whatever happened to the idea of pilgramage income?

[Ahiga]

Whatever happened to the idea of pilgramage income?

It sounds like an interesting one. I guess I forgot about it. It makes sense - such religious monuments would attract pilgrims, and historically their wealth was often fought over for that reason. If it can't be implemented for 1.0, maybe it can be considered at a later point and time. Sounds good to me.

[Dooz]

I see, fair enough. Well, there's always minimods I suppose.

[GrandViZ]

The BC EDB recruitment system makes sure, that the AI will recruit a mixture of units, that fit its cultural background, and that increase in quality with the progress of a campaign.

Experience shows that cutting off the manpower pool and growth hurts the AI much more than the human player, so it is better to balance the power of the human players army through the economical aspect.

[Dooz]

Experience shows that cutting off the manpower pool and growth hurts the AI much more than the human player, so it is better to balance the power of the human players army through the economical aspect.

That's what I'd been wondering. I knew there had to be some drawback to the idea, I just hadn't heard anyone say so. So all right! Sounds like BC has it's stuff together and it ought to be a great campaign!

[Ermeni]

i love mods who has a economic challenge.....(like EB)......to go from nothing and then build up slowly until the treasures are full is just lovely

about the silk road stuff....where will we be able to take advantage of the silk roads?......(obviously where the silk road lies but i mean more specifically)

[Rex Armeniae]

hmm, I actually dont know this and I dont know where to look for the answer. Will BC have a 2 turns/ year system or will we have the same 2years/turn

[Miraj]

2 Turns Per Year. It matches the character aging perfectly.

[Rex Armeniae]

Great! Just as in RTW, Summer/Spring - Winter/autumn

[Hounf of Culan]

I don't believe character aging is hardcoded, because in Stainless Steel 4.0 it is 1.5 years per turn and the characters age accordingly.

[Miraj]

I don't believe character aging is hardcoded, because in Stainless Steel 4.0 it is 1.5 years per turn and the characters age accordingly.

Oh really? Funky stuff. I'll check it out. Because I had done 2tpy because of the notion that aging is hardcoded.