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  1. #1
    Salvo's Avatar Maréchal de l'Empire
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    Default Re: Poland - Faction Thread

    In 1772 they captured 30 percent of PLC teritory.
    In 1793 Russia attacked PLC, becouse of big PLC's reforms. Prussia made the same.
    In 1795 ended Kościuszko uprising, the last chance for PLC to survive. Austria, Russia and Prussia conquered all teritory.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    In February, 1772, the agreement of partition was signed in Vienna. Early in August the Russian, Prussian and Austrian troops simultaneously entered the Commonwealth and occupied the provinces agreed upon among themselves. On August 5, 1772, the occupation manifesto was issued; much to the consternation of a country too exhausted by the endeavours of the Confederation of Bar to offer successful resistance;[10] nonetheless several battles and sieges took place, as Polish troops refused to lay down their arms (most noably, in Tyniec, Częstochowa and Kraków).

    The partition treaty was ratified by its signatories on September 22, 1772. Frederick II of Prussia was elated with his success; Prussia took most of the Polish Royal Prussia that stood between its possessions in Kingdom of Prussia and Margraviate of Brandenburg, taking Ermland (Warmia), Royal Prussia without the city of Danzig (Gdańsk) (which in 1773 became a new province called West Prussia), northern areas of Greater Poland along the Noteć River (the Netze District), and parts of Kuyavia, (also the Prussian city of Thorn [Toruń]).[10] Despite token criticism of the partition from Austrian Empress Maria Theresa, Austrian statesman Kaunitz of Austria was proud of wresting as large a share as he did, with the rich salt mines of Bochnia and Wieliczka. To Austria fell Zator and Auschwitz (Oświęcim), part of Little Poland embracing parts of the counties of Kraków and Sandomir and the whole of Galicia, less the City of Kraków.[10] Catherine of Russia was also very satisfied. By this "diplomatic document" Russia came into possession of that section of Livonia which had still remained in Commonwealth control, and of Belarus embracing the counties of Vitebsk, Polotsk and Mstislavl.[10]

    "Rejtan - The Fall of Poland", oil on canvas by Jan Matejko, 1866, 282 x 487 cm, Royal Castle in Warsaw

    By this partition the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth lost about 30% of its territory, with a population of four million people (1/3 of its population).[10] By seizing northwestern Poland, Prussia instantly gained control over 80% of the Commonwealth's total foreign trade. Through levying enormous custom duties, Prussia accelerated the inevitable collapse of the Commonwealth.

    After having occupied their respective territories, the three partitioning powers demanded that King Stanisław and the Sejm approve their action. When no help was forthcoming and the armies of the combined nations occupying Warsaw to compel by force of arms the calling of the assembly, no alternative could be chosen save passive submission to their will. The so-called Partition Sejm, with Russian military forces threatening the opposition, on September 18, 1773, signed the treaty of cession, renouncing all claims of the Commonwealth to the occupied territories.

    [edit]
    Second Partition
    Main article: Second Partition of Poland

    After the Second Partition (1793)

    By 1790, on the political front, the First Polish Republic had deteriorated into such a helpless condition that it was successfully forced into an unnatural and ultimately deadly alliance with its enemy, Prussia. The Polish-Prussian Pact of 1790 was signed. The conditions of the Pact were such that the succeeding and final two partitions of Poland were inevitable. The May Constitution of 1791 enfranchised the bourgeoisie, established the separation of the three branches of government, and eliminated the abuses of Repnin Sejm. Those reforms prompted aggressive actions on the part of its neighbours, wary of the potential renaissance of the Commonwealth. Once again Poland dared to reform and improve itself without Russia's permission, and once again the Empress was angered; arguing that Poland had fallen prey to the radical Jacobinism then at high tide in France, Russian forces invaded the Commonwealth in 1792.

    In the War in Defense of the Constitution, pro-Russian conservative Polish magnates, the Confederation of Targowica, fought against the Polish forces supporting the constitution, believing that Russians would help them restore the Golden Liberty. Abandoned by their Prussian allies, Polish pro-constitution forces, faced with Targowica units and the regular Russian army, were defeated. Prussia signed a treaty with Russia, agreeing that Polish reforms would be revoked and both countries would receive chunks of Commonwealth territory. In 1793, deputies to the Grodno Sejm, last Sejm of the Commonwealth, in the presence of the Russian forces, agreed to Russian territorial demands. In the 2nd partition, Russia and Prussia helped themselves to enough more land so that only one-third of the 1772 population remained in Poland. Prussia named its newly gained province South Prussia, with Warsaw as the capital of the new province.

    Targowica confederates, who did not expect another partition, and the king, Stanisław August Poniatowski, who joined them near the end, both lost much prestige and support. The reformers, on the other hand, were attracting increasing support, and in 1794 the Kościuszko Uprising begun.

    [edit]
    Third Partition
    Main article: Third Partition of Poland

    Three partitions of Poland on one map

    Kosciuszko's ragtag insurgent armies won some initial successes, but they eventually fell before the superior forces of Russian Empire. The partitioning powers, seeing the increasing unrest in the remaining Commonwealth, decided to solve the problem by erasing any independent Polish state from the map. On 24 October 1795 their representatives signed a treaty, dividing the remaining territories of the Commonwealth between their three countries.

    The Russian part included 120,000 km˛ and 1.2 million people with Vilnius (Wilno), the Prussian part (new provinces of New East Prussia and New Silesia) 55,000 km˛ and 1 million people with Warsaw, and the Austrian 47,000km˛ with 1.2 million and Lublin and Kraków.

  2. #2
    Selim Yavuz's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Poland - Faction Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by aarons got funky fresh View Post
    Can someone tell me how the PLC just vanished? I looked at a map of 1700 when it was at large, then one at 1800 to find it's been absorbed by Prussia, Austria and Russia.
    The PLC was basically a helpless giant. It's government was a shambles, it's ridiculous Liberum Veto allowed a single dissenting noble from preventing any laws being passed. Also since the monarchy was elective, the states around it simply bribed the hell out of the electors who elected weak Kings. Around the latter part of the 18th Century the Poles attempted to inact some reforms that would strengthen the country. It's neighbors had no intention of a weak state bordering them to become a strong state, and thus the Russians sent in Aleksandr Suvorov, who crushed the Poles and restored the liberum veto. The new constitution thus failed. Also, the cynical Emperor Joseph II and Frederick the Great wished to paper over tensions with Russia on various points, not least the Ottoman Empire, and decided that carving up Poland would placate Russia and distract her from acting elsewhere

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  3. #3

    Default Re: Poland - Faction Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by aarons got funky fresh View Post
    Can someone tell me how the PLC just vanished?
    Thousands of books and articles were written about this subject. The answer on your question can't be easy, because the fall of a state is always very complex thing. Anyway, if you want very short answer, you should first understand what Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was.

    PLC was a country founded on voluntary agreement of different its parts. Think about present European Union in 16th. PLC was like EU. Its power and its weakness had the same roots - voluntary cooperation of various parts of the state. PLC was strong only if its parts cooperated with each other. When this cooperation began to deficient, PLC began to lose its power and status.
    Selim has written about liberum veto. It existed in PLC, but it wasn't the reason of the fall of the state. It was only a symptom of problems with cooperation of various parts (factions) of the state. Liberum veto wasn't some thoughless right. It had its logic. Look at modern European Union. There exists a liberum veto in EU. A single country can block the rest (like Ireland has blocked Lisbon Treaty). In PLC it wasn't every nobleman who could block the rest. It was a member of Sejm (Polish Parliament), who was a representative of his 'powiat' and 'województwo' (his small fatherland). A voice of single powiat could block the rest. Why? because (like today EU) PLC was founded on fundamental rights of freedom. Stronger powiat/województwo (in EU it is country) couldn't force weaker powiat (country) only because it was stronger. PLC (like today EU) was a country of settlements. The culture of cooperation and unanimous agreement was crucial to existence and a power of PLC.
    Last edited by Radosław Sikora; December 13, 2008 at 09:22 PM.

  4. #4
    Phunkracy's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Poland - Faction Thread

    The PLC was basically a helpless giant. It's government was a shambles, it's ridiculous Liberum Veto allowed a single dissenting noble from preventing any laws being passed. Also since the monarchy was elective, the states around it simply bribed the hell out of the electors who elected weak Kings. Around the latter part of the 18th Century the Poles attempted to inact some reforms that would strengthen the country. It's neighbors had no intention of a weak state bordering them to become a strong state, and thus the Russians sent in Aleksandr Suvorov, who crushed the Poles and restored the liberum veto. The new constitution thus failed. Also, the cynical Emperor Joseph II and Frederick the Great wished to paper over tensions with Russia on various points, not least the Ottoman Empire, and decided that carving up Poland would placate Russia and distract her from acting elsewhere
    Indeed. There were many attempts to reform Poland, all were blocked by bordering states.

    From all nations, only Ottoman Empire did not accept Poland's partition.
    Last edited by Phunkracy; December 13, 2008 at 03:25 PM.




  5. #5
    Selim Yavuz's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Poland - Faction Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Phunkracy View Post
    Indeed. There were many attempts to reform Poland, all were blocked by bordering states.

    From all nations, only Ottoman Empire did not accept Poland's partition.
    And France, though neither could do much for Poland sadly. As for Radoslaw, that is all fine and dandy for ideals, but ideals always fall short of reality. Those Sejm could claim to be acting in the interests of their lands, but more likely they were being payed a hefty sum by the Russian Czars or Prussian Kings. That is also a problem in the EU, as France seems to not want the U.K. in, and various treaties get rejected because one dissenter. That's madness to me, if the treaty is accepted by the majority it should pass, specially since Ireland is a lightweight, Germany must have some 20 times the population of Ireland, it's absurd that Ireland vote could count as much as France or Germany or Italy.

    "My home policy: I wage war; my foreign policy: I wage war. All the time I wage war."- Georges Clemenceau
    "Being born in a stable does not make one a horse." - Arthur Wellesley
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    "A carpet is large enough to accommodate two sufis, but the world is not large enough for two Kings." - Yavuz Sultan Selim
    "Two wars cannot be waged with one army." -Prince Eugene of Savoy
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  6. #6
    MekongFisher's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Poland - Faction Thread

    No, you do not understand. PLC's liberum veto was not a matter of "fine and dandy ideals". It was a matter of a nation's foundation. It is absurd to think that the reason why PLC maintained liberum veto because it had so much respect for a concept like political freedom which either did not exist or was primitive back then.

    Poland-Lithuania Commonwealth was a nation that was founded upon the voluntary union based upon mutual cooperation. Overturning liberum veto which was a symbol of such principle would be similar for a modern day United States to do away with the concept of individual states and just put them all under one authoritative government. Doing away with liberum veto for PLC would have meant the same thing for Russia or Austria to doing away with monarchy or its church: it was a matter of nation's founding principle. You must look at this from a historical perspective, not modern.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Poland - Faction Thread

    2 more notices about liberum veto.

    1. In practice it existed in PLC in years 1669-1764. In that time PLC didn't lose any piece of its territory. Compare it to for example Sweden, which in the same time lost:
    - Bremen, Verden
    - Southern Vorpommern
    - Ingermanland
    - Part of Kexholm and Vyborg Counties
    - Estonia, Livland
    - Part of southeast Finland, foremost large parts of Kymmenegĺrd County.

    2. After 1764 the liberum veto practically went out of use: the principle of unanimity did not bind 'confederated sejms' and so deputies formed a "confederation" (Polish: kofederacja) at the beginning of a session in order to prevent its disruption by liberum veto.
    In 1773 Polish Parliament legalized the first partition of Poland. If liberum veto had existed in that time, it wouldn't happend. Tadeusz Rejtan, Samuel Korsak and Stanisław Bohuszewicz tried to prevent the legalization of the first partition of Poland, but their opposition was ignored by majority. This event strongly supports liberum veto supporters, who were claiming that liberum veto was forbiding an introduction of a detrimetal law.

    p.s
    I don't try to convince you that liberum veto was a good thing. I'd like to show you that everything has better and worse sides. And that there are some false stereotypes about liberum veto.
    Last edited by Radosław Sikora; December 21, 2008 at 02:43 AM. Reason: a

  8. #8
    MekongFisher's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Poland - Faction Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Radosław Sikora View Post
    2 more notices about liberum veto.

    1. In practice it existed in PLC in years 1669-1764. In that time PLC didn't lose any piece of its territory. Compare it to for example Sweden, which in the same time lost:
    - Bremen, Verden
    - Southern Vorpommern
    - Ingermanland
    - Part of Kexholm and Vyborg Counties
    - Estonia, Livland
    - Part of southeast Finland, foremost large parts of Kymmenegĺrd County..
    Now, that can't be true. There were clearly significant territory losses after Treaty of Andrusovo, and many territories lost to Sweden as well.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Poland - Faction Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MekongFisher View Post
    Now, that can't be true. There were clearly significant territory losses after Treaty of Andrusovo, and many territories lost to Sweden as well.
    Andruszów was in 1667 - 2 years before the first use of liberum veto.
    The only one territory lost to Sweden was Livonia, but it happend in 1620's. PLC lost also a couple of Prussian towns and ports in 1629, but only for 6 years. PLC regained them in 1635.
    The next Polish-Swedish war, finished in 1660. Sweden didn't gain any new terittories from Poland.
    Next war and the last one between Poland and Sweden was GNW. Poland didn't lose any territory in this war (while Sweden lost Livonia, Estonia etc. - but not to Poland).
    Last edited by Radosław Sikora; December 21, 2008 at 11:47 AM.

  10. #10
    JoelPalsson's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: Poland - Faction Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Radosław Sikora View Post
    Next war and the last one between Poland and Sweden was GNW. Poland didn't lose any territory in this war (while Sweden lost Livonia, Estonia etc. - but not to Poland).
    Sweden did dethrone Augustus of Saxony though, and put Stanislav in his place as ruler of Poland-Lithuania.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Poland - Faction Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JoelPalsson View Post
    Sweden did dethrone Augustus of Saxony though, and put Stanislav in his place as ruler of Poland-Lithuania.
    Yes, it's true. Sweden had its days of glory during GNW, while Poland had its days of shame. But the final outcome of the war was fatal for Sweden. Poland at least didn't lose any territory. August the Strong recovered Polish throne. GNW was a temporary disaster for Poland. For Sweden this war was a catastrophe.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Poland - Faction Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Radosław Sikora View Post
    2 more notices about liberum veto.

    1. In practice it existed in PLC in years 1669-1764. In that time PLC didn't lose any piece of its territory.
    ??? And what about Podole lost to the ottomans from 1672 to 1699?
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Poland - Faction Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Łukomski View Post
    ??? And what about Podole lost to the ottomans from 1672 to 1699?
    It was regained in the same war.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Poland - Faction Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Radosław Sikora View Post
    It was regained in the same war.
    Yes but it doesn't change the fact that it wasn't polish for nearly 30 years. So your statement isn't 100% true.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Poland - Faction Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Łukomski View Post
    Yes but it doesn't change the fact that it wasn't polish for nearly 30 years. So your statement isn't 100% true.
    I don't count temporary losses. Moreover it's not true that Poland lost Podole for nearly 30 years. Podole was regained in 1680's. Only Kamieniec Podolski was in Ottoman hands until 1699.

    Anyway, Polish borders in 1669 and in 1764 were almost the same. Almost, because in the meantime PLC regained also a couple of fortresses (Wieliż, Siebież, Newel) and their neighbourhood from Russia.

    Let me quote the book "Obszar i granice Polski" by Jacek Ślusarczyk (p.56):

    "W latach 1668-1772 terytorium Rzeczypospolitej nie uległo zmianie. [...] Obszar państwa w tym czasie wynosił ok. 733 tys. km2 (bez lennej Kurlandii i Semigalii - ok. 25 tys. km2) [...]"

  16. #16

    Default Re: Poland - Faction Thread

    Sad how there are no readily available books about Poland in English, it took me months to feth the trilogy and I still cant find God’s Playground

  17. #17
    prince Poniatowski's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Poland - Faction Thread

    Sad how there are no readily available books about Poland in English, it took me months to feth the trilogy and I still cant find God’s Playground
    I saw it in Amazon... ? Anyway, God's Playground and all Davies books about Poland are great. I'm reading Rising '44 now.

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    MekongFisher's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Poland - Faction Thread

    w00t!!! PLC confirmed as a faction!!! Hurrah!



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    Default Re: Poland - Faction Thread

    Poland FREEDOM!!!!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Last edited by jimkatalanos; January 24, 2009 at 06:28 AM.
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  20. #20
    prince Poniatowski's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Poland - Faction Thread

    Norman Davies about Polish history (must see!)



    Elections in PLC



    "Lithuania, my Homeland..." Lithuania in Commonwealth



    The promised land... Jews in Commonwealth (Antisemitism... !)



    Some battle scenes:




    Poles with Napoleon


    and funny accent... :

    Last edited by prince Poniatowski; January 23, 2009 at 04:42 AM.

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