The Celtic Factions: Arverni, Boii, Belgae

[cherryfunk]

I've been working on the 3 Celtic factions that are one of the main chunks of work we still have to do for RS 2.0.

One of the problems in creating these factions is that there isn't a great deal of solid information on them, particularly in the 3rd century timeframe. There IS much better info from the 1st century BC, particularly in the writings of Caesar and other Romans. So my idea is to take some of this later information and work backwards from it. I'm also having to use a fair amount of creative license, because we need to make the factions distinct and exciting for players.

I'd like to use this thread to work out some ideas with the team and get feedback on how we want to envision these factions. This information will impact everything from unit creation to temples to the faction previews.

First off, I have some ideas on the overall approach towards each faction I'd like to run by everyone:

The Arverni: The Arverni are the Gallic Celts, and are in many ways the most advanced of all the Celts, with a more centralized government, better developed infrastructure, more established trade routes, etc. They are more likely to live in cities, and more likely to be successful agrarians. They have interacted with the Greeks and Romans for many years, and become a bit more 'civilized' as a result. In military terms, we might postulate that they have better armor and weapons than other Celts, and possibly a greater degree of discipline. They may also be more likely to use missile weapons, and their cavalry will be the best of any Celts.

The Belgae: The Belgae are a throwback in some ways, more primitive than the Arverni. These are the tribes that Caesar noted as the most ferocious Celtic fighters. They were far more difficult to tame, in part because they lacked the urban infrastructure of the Gallic tribes. They are more connected to the ancient Celtic religion, and the Druids still have a powerful hold over them. The Belgae in Britain still rely heavily on chariots, and in battle are more likely to use wild skirmishing tactics, while those in northern Gaul are famed for their almost fanatic heavy infantry. The dense forests and marshes in the Belgic regions give them foresters and other light infantry of very high calibre.

The Boii: The Boii are the proud champions of Celtic heritage, they live in the Celtic homeland at the heart of Europe. In terms of technology, they are midway between the advanded Arverni and the backwards Belgae, but in terms of pride and valor they are second to none. Boii tribes have emigrated all over the Celtic world, which suggests a good agrarian infrastructure, but they are likely much less urbanized than the Arverni. Their religion and culture is likely influenced by both the Germans and the Getai, and no doubt they use their wealth to purchase the favor of various neighboring tribes when battle is imminent. These German and Getic auxiliaries will make the Boii armies unique from the Arverni and Belgae.

[tone]

You mentioned the belgae having more use of painting - we can have some Pict warriors (small round or square rounds - lots of woad). Maybe the Boii can use some of that large plate and scale armour that some of the pics show? - sort of more Eastern/Central European influence. Arverni can have high quality chainmail (more advanced armour)

[cherryfunk]

That makes sense:

Belgae: less armor, body paintings.
Arverni: more chain
Boii: more scale, showing an eastern influence

We might also give the Boii an axemen unit, showing German influence, and possibly archers, showing a Getic influence. The Arverni and Belgae might have archers, but they wouldn't be that good and should have fewer men per unit (but they will have good slingers).

[swhunter]

Hi Cherry i have soom good pics on my post in Dev1
ask tone he liked them.
http://www.man2manalliance.org/hero/keltoi.html

[tone]

Yeah, I'll certainly be using some of that material in the celtic skinning - there's a great shield there with some spirally designs and picts are great reference material (the painted ones - that's what Pict means - with small shields.

I LOVE reference material. Makes life so much easier than having to invent!

[swhunter]

you say the word and ill sreach for it!

[tone]

More Greek stuff would be good - Greek key patterns, Greek symbols, stuff like that for linothoraces, shields, etc.

[swhunter]

You got it!
See on Dev1

[cherryfunk]

Some new information on Wikipedia about the Boii that is helping me understand what this faction is all about:

According to the classical authors, the Boii crossed Poeninus mons (the Great St Bernard Pass) and settled in the Po plain, where they subjugated the local Etruscans. Other Celtic tribes, among them the Insubres, Cenomani, Lingones and Senones had also settled in Northern Italy, some of them, such as the Lepontii, since pre-historic times. The Boii occupied the old Etruscan settlement of Felsina and renamed it Bononia (Bologna).

So the Boii capital in the Po was actually an Etruscan city that they occupied.

Archeological remains of their culture have been found at various sites, among others at Felsina, but also at Monte Bibele. Settlement forms as well as grave goods indicate a peaceful coexistence and probably intermarriage of Celtic and Etruscan populations.

This is interesting because it shows a powerful Celtic people defeating a powerful Italian people, occupying their city, and living peacefully with them. This suggests cultural exchange and adoption. So we must similarly assume that the Boii could have taken over Rome and adopted its culture to some degree. In game terms, it means that a Celtic faction should able to occupy 'western civilized' regions and establish a prosperous reign.

In the second half of the 3rd century BC, the Boii allied with the other Cisalpine Gauls and the Etruscans against Rome.

Showing the shifting alliances. I think the game's use of concrete 'factions' makes it harder for us to grasp the truth -- peoples of wildly differing cultures often allied with each other and even formed very strong bonds.

When Caesar conquered Gaul, it was not Rome vs. Gaul in black and white. Many Gallic tribes allied with Caesar and provided him with men -- his allied contingent was enormous, in the tens of thousands. His cavalry were entirely allied or mercenary -- and he trusted them more than his own men at times. When the Huns conquered Europe they had many allied tribes with them, both Asians and Germans.

Having a wide variety of mercenaries will help RS2.0 recreate this effect. Due to the mod's limited recruitment, it can be difficult to retrain your faction's native troops while invading an enemy -- so hiring AOR-appropriate mercenaries will represent the importance of allied forces.

They also fought alongside Hannibal, killing the Roman general L. Postumius Albinus, whose skull was then turned into a sacrificial bowl (Liv. XXIII, 24). A short time thereafter, they were defeated at Telamon in 224 BC and eventually in 193 BC near Mutina (modern Modena). After the loss of their capital, a large portion of the Boii left Italy. Having migrated to Italy from north of the Alps, some of the defeated Celts simply moved back to their kinsfolk.

This suggests that a strong connection between the central European Boii and the Po valley Boii (let's call them the Western and Eastern branches of the tribe). As is typical of Celts, they weren't unified in the Roman way, but more in the Greek sense -- they maintained commerce and other exchanges, and maintained a sense of kinship between motherland and colony.

This might suggest that the Boii faction in RS2.0 control both the eastern and western territories of the Boii.

The Pannonian Boii are mentioned again in the late 2nd century BC when they repelled the Cimbri and Teutones (Strabo VII, 2, 2). Later on, they attacked the city of Noreia (in modern Austria) shortly before a group of Boii (32,000 according to Julius Caesar - the number is probably an exaggeration) joined the Helvetii in their attempt to settle in western Gaul. After the Helvetian defeat at Bibracte, the influential Aedui tribe allowed the Boii survivors to settle on their territory, where they occupied the oppidum of Gorgobina. Although attacked by Vercingetorix during one phase of the war, they supported him with 2.000 troops at the battle of Alesia (Caes. Bell. Gall., VII, 75).

This is confirmation that the Boii really do deserve to be a faction. They were a powerful people, sending large forces into the Po and colonizing it despite Etruscan resistance. Sending a large force into Gaul, and displaying such valor in battle vs. Caesar that they were asked to settle and ally with the locals.

Not to mention repelling the invading Cimbri and Teutones, who inflicted one Rome's worst defeats at Arausio, where 80,000 Romans died -- a defeat as terrible to Rome as Cannae.

That bears repeating: the Cimbri and Teutones, who wiped out a Roman army of nearly 100,000, were stopped cold by the Boii.

The Boii must have been a powerful confederation. They must have had real political cohesion to field a force capable of doing what even Rome could not, and a martial spirit and effectiveness as capable as any people or nation in Europe.

In short, the Boii were some tough hairy b@stards.

[pseudocaesar]

Belgae should be able to recruit chariots, but only in Britain, as they were obsolete on the mainland Europe, and we want the people to imagine they are building two separate empires, one in Britain and one in Europe.

[tone]

Were chariots obsolete?
I thought we were going to depict the heavier reliance on chariots by giving them a heavier chariot unit?
I'm not the historian though....one less chariot means it'll get finished sooner!

[rory o'kane]

chariots were obsolete on the continent and had been for centuries by the time caesar had reached britain, and so when the romans saw them they were a bit shocked - they'd not really had to fight many chariots before!

[cherryfunk]

Yeah, but Caesar is around 50BC, almost 200 years after our campaign start...

[tone]

I'll be getting to work on these guys next....let's get an exact list of units together...here's one for starters:

Arverni:
1) Slingers (sling, dagger)
2) Archer (bow, dagger or ?spear)
3) Round shield skirmishers (jav, dagger)
4) Longshield skirmishers (jav, spear, bare chest))
5) Light spearmen (spear, bare chest)
6) Armoured spearmen (spear, chainmail, Montefortino type helmet)
7) Swordsmen (sword, trousers, bare chest)
8) Armoured skirmisher warband?? (jav, armour, montefortino helmet, spear?)
9) Armoured swordsmen (jav, chainmail, gallic helmet, sword)
10) Gaesatae (massive attack, little armour, small numbers?)
11) Light cavalry (same as scythian light cav - throw two javs then attack with spear)
12) Medium cavalry?
13) Noble cavalry (two javs then spear - same model as Galatians)
14) Light chariots??

Belgae:
1) Slingers (sling, dagger)
2) Round shield skirmishers (jav, dagger)
3) Longshield skirmishers (jav, spear, bare chest))
4) Light spearmen (spear, bare chest)
5) Armoured spearmen (spear, chainmail, Montefortino type helmet)
6) Swordsmen (sword, trousers, bare chest)
7) Picts = "painted ones" (loads of woad)
8) Belgian Milnha
9) Naked warriors (massive attack, little armour, small numbers, loads of woad?)
10) Light cavalry (same as scythian light cav - throw two javs then attack with spear)
11) Medium cavalry?
12) Noble cavalry (two javs then spear - same model as Galatians)
13) Light chariots
14) Heavy chariots (armoured guys with horned helmets)

Boii:
1) Slingers (sling, dagger)
2) Archer (bow, dagger or ?spear)
3) Round shield skirmishers (jav, dagger)
4) Longshield skirmishers (jav, spear, bare chest))
5) Light spearmen (spear, bare chest)
6) Armoured spearmen (spear, scale, Montefortino type helmet)
7) Swordsmen (sword, trousers, bare chest)
8) Armoured swordsmen (jav, scale, crested/spined helmet similar to general, sword)
9) Another elite unit with interesting helmet!
10) Gaesatae (massive attack, little armour, small numbers?)
11) Light cavalry (same as scythian light cav - throw two javs then attack with spear)
12) Medium cavalry?
13) Noble cavalry (two javs then spear - same model as Galatians)
14) Light chariots??

i.e. a core of shared units, two or three unique models per faction, no archers for Belgae but they have heavy chariots.
In terms of armour, should any of their units have any?

Thoughts welcome.

[cherryfunk]

I think the Belgae should have 2 types of slingers, a levy slinger and a more elite version (like a Cretan Archer but for slingers), since they don't have archers.

[tone]

Any other thoughts? - it'd be good to nail down the look of each one as well as far as possible from osprey and other pics. I'll start adding pics where poss.

[cherryfunk]

Yes, I'll work on this today, I've got lots of notes to look through.

[tone]

Ideas for medium cavalry unit - like middle guy:
Captured Greek /Roman style helmet, no armour, round shield with spine, jav, sword/spear


naked warriors:


Elite Arverni infantry? - Gallic nobles


Picts, Belgae slinger:

[mdg1125]

Ideas for medium cavalry unit - like middle guy:
Captured Greek /Roman style helmet, no armour, round shield with spine, jav, sword/spear



Elite Arverni infantry? - Gallic nobles

Tone. Im working on the cavalryman with the triarii helmet. Also I think I made a unit just like this gallic noble let me chack my folders and mess with this.

[tone]

Ineresting, the Gaesatae should be spearmen according to Osprey....not swordsmen.