Are pikeman in the game realistic?

**jo the greek** · August 21, 2007, 04:09 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3cFFL8EW9U
I think pikeman should work more like this with the spears down offcourse.

**antaeus** · August 21, 2007, 04:25 AM

its called a push of pike... when the two sides get inside the length of each others pikes..

it was a messy situation where swords and knives become handy, and people die on their feet..

it was not ideal tho, as the point of the pike is to get the other person on the end of your pike.. not let them come close enough to actually touch you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_of_pike

**Evolution** · August 21, 2007, 04:37 AM

that would look really cool if that was in game

But Pikemen were never really designed to fight infantry. But the pike would make the enemy think twice about charging in their infantry.

**Roshak** · August 21, 2007, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by |MeMw|Obi-Wan

But Pikemen were never really designed to fight infantry.

Tell that to the Swiss Pikemen. For they successfully developed a way to use the pike formation offensively used a new type of spear-head that allowed them to both slash and stab at a distance making them effective against a variety of enemies not just cavalry.

**sumaznguy** · August 22, 2007, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by Roshak

Tell that to the Swiss Pikemen. For they successfully developed a way to use the pike formation offensively used a new type of spear-head that allowed them to both slash and stab at a distance making them effective against a variety of enemies not just cavalry.

Only they and I believe one other country was able to pull that off. Most other countries just used it as defense against cavalry.

**delra** · August 21, 2007, 07:10 AM

Pikemen were never really designed to fight infantry

They weren't???

**sumaznguy** · August 21, 2007, 08:15 AM

Pikes were used to defeat Cavalry. But they would get slaughtered by anything really. WIth the exception of a few countries/kingdoms, most pikemen were just local militia who couldn't afford to be equipped with real armor.

**Khassaki** · August 21, 2007, 08:15 AM

The whole point to the 15 foot long spear was to kill the other guy, that video is just some more clueless re-enactors.

**Dogman** · August 21, 2007, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by Khassaki

The whole point to the 15 foot long spear was to kill the other guy, that video is just some more clueless re-enactors.

Actually, two formations of pikemen going at with pikes down would just lead to a shoving match at a distance. Any person impaled upon a pike would probably stay there or force the pikemen to abandon his weapon on account of it being forced to the ground with the impaled. However, each formation approaching each other with pikes up allows for a 'push of pikes'. A tactic in which the two formations would interlock their pikes in the air and attempt to push the opposing formation to the ground, where they could then, often times, absolutely butcher the collapsed formation with short swords or daggers, thus leaving their pikes free for use against cavalry later.

**antaeus** · August 21, 2007, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by Dogman

Actually, two formations of pikemen going at with pikes down would just lead to a shoving match at a distance. Any person impaled upon a pike would probably stay there or force the pikemen to abandon his weapon on account of it being forced to the ground with the impaled. However, each formation approaching each other with pikes up allows for a 'push of pikes'. A tactic in which the two formations would interlock their pikes in the air and attempt to push the opposing formation to the ground, where they could then, often times, absolutely butcher the collapsed formation with short swords or daggers, thus leaving their pikes free for use against cavalry later.

push of pike was not a desirable tactic, it was an accidental by-product of close engagement and generally avoided, as it renders the pike useless, and many of the lesser pike formations simply couldn't handle themselves in close contact.

**PooFoo** · August 21, 2007, 11:16 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je-c81wwrpA
^^^^
Waaaaay better pusk of pike scene in that vid.

EDIT: Certainly not a place I'd like to be...so messy, and too many pointy objects for my taste

.

**antaeus** · August 21, 2007, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by PooFoo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je-c81wwrpA
^^^^
Waaaaay better pusk of pike scene in that vid.

EDIT: Certainly not a place I'd like to be...so messy, and too many pointy objects for my taste

.

and plenty of cheeky b**tards creeping under the pikes in the empty space between the two sides with daggers...

**sumaznguy** · August 21, 2007, 08:28 AM

well I doubt they wanted to kill each other.

**Condottiere SOG** · August 21, 2007, 12:54 PM

Pikemen were effective against any formation in its day and was used as such. It's usage against cavalry was its premier fashion, not its only one. In the game, I have no problems with pikemen. They work just fine and with their swords, near historically perfect. I will post some replays to prove it.

http://files.filefront.com//;8369317;;/
http://files.filefront.com//;8369318;;/
http://files.filefront.com//;8369315;;/

**nameless** · August 21, 2007, 01:48 PM

In the game when it comes to dealing with infantry it's best to take off their guard mode in which they'll lower the pikes and fight likewise.

**D.B. Cooper** · August 21, 2007, 02:37 PM

That look really cool in the game, but in real life it looks useless. It pretty much nullifies the power of the pikes.

**antaeus** · August 21, 2007, 04:40 PM

pikes could be used against virtually any opponent.. in some of the most famous pike battles they were used against infantry... and were devastating when used right.. they were a good battlefield utility when used right... people considered bringing them back right up until the american civil war when general lee considered forming confederate pike units as an aggressive unit to counter a bayonet charge.

however my favourite example of pikes in battle was where they were horribly defeated... and cost the life of a king... james IV of scotland at flodden field.

the scotish pikes were trained to work in landsknecht style. however had only had a few months training... they outnumbered and outgunned the english, but the english eventually destroyed them by lopping the ends of the pikes off with their poleaxes, then getting inside the blunt ends and going to work on the pikemen... the scottish king was int he front row and probably one of the first to die at the hands of a nasty poleaxe.

in the game the poleaxe should have a +2 attack against pikes!