Religion: The Great Divide

[King of Axum]

I was reading alot about the factions and the provinces in this mod, and when i got to religion i noticed it was very basic. Christian, Muslim, Pagan, and Heteric. There should be four types of christianity. Coptic christianity for Ethiopia and the Sudan empire. Orthodox christianity for the infamous Byzantine empire in Greece. Then the Apostolic church practiced in Georgia and Armenia. Lastly however Roman Catholicism . For the Crusader states. I would love to get some feed back

[Miraj]

Can you by any chance tell me what this mod is called?

[John I Tzimisces]

Apostolic Christianity is not practiced in Georgia, it is Armenian Christianity, and it is in communion with the Coptic/Ethiopian Christianity.

If you want to get real technical there should be three sorts of Christianity, Oriental/Apostolic, Orthodox, and Catholic. All three were pretty heated rivals (even though the Apostolic/Oriental and Orthodox are somewhat close in terms of beliefs, their geographic and political placements inflamed these few-ish differences into huge issues...). However 2 is enough for BC, the game doesn't need to get any more complicated.

[karo]

It would be realy great if that was possible but that would make the game more complacated. and there are also limits on how many kinds of religion you can have. And two cristianity is enough, if there are more there will be too much unrest in a province.

EDIt Shiite muslims would be cool, it would give muslim factions what cristians have in the game

[King of Axum]

This is not a new mod but an suggestion for an more indepth historic religion intergration in Broken Crescent

[Ahiga]

There's a limit of 7 religions in the coding. Any more and the game crashes, and refuses to work.

Catholic
East Orthodox
Muslim (Sunni)
Hindu
Pagan
Heretic

We have no current plans to add any new religions. If and only If we were to in the future (With no plans to do so right now), it would without a doubt be Shiite Islam.

[Ermeni]

We have no current plans to add any new religions. If and only If we were to in the future (With no plans to do so right now), it would without a doubt be Shiite Islam.

which faction would be shiite?

[Ahiga]

which faction would be shiite?

None of our current factions would be, but potential new ones would be, along with the population of certain muslim regions (You'd probably have Shiites in Syria, Egypt, Iran).

The Sindhi, possibly the Nabhanids (I seem to recall Oman being a somewhat unique brand of Islam. Whether that can fit as Shi'ite or not remains to be seen), and a few others. This was not the period of Shi'ite Dominion - that had come to pass from the years prior to our starting date, where you had the Shi'ites on the rise (The Buyids, the fatimids).

Hence, it would require adding those factions, which currently is not part of our plans, nor is being discussed right now, nor is planned for the future (But is being kept open as an option).

The two chief reasons for a Shia Islam as I see it are:

• Making unrest occur for Muslims in the heartlands of the Middle East. Without it, it would be kind of peaceful and calm for them in firmly Muslim Lands.
• Diplomacy - It's a generalization, but the impression I've gathered is that Shi'ite kingdoms seemed more capable of being friendly with their neighbors than Sunni Kingdoms of this period, and seemed to gain the ire of their Sunni Brethren.
  • See the Sindh's cosmopolitan society, where their society was apparently close to being secular, and where Hindus could hold rather important offices. Contrast that with Mahmud, and Muhammad of Ghors, and the Sultanate of Delhi's somewhat..rougher behavior.
  • See the Nizari Sect of Syria being somewhat friendly with the KoJ, even being willing apparently to convert to Christianity (Though that may just be a myth).

But the only way I could support it would be if at least 2 Shi'ite factions were added. And right now, no Shi'ite factions - in fact no new factions at all, have been discussed, or are being planned on.

[Babur]

(I seem to recall Oman being a somewhat unique brand of Islam. Whether that can fit as Shi'ite or not

In Oman the dominant strand of Islam is Ibadhi which is the only surviving branch of the otherwise defunct Kharijite movement.They elect a chief of the community (in secret) called an Imam.Although they constitute their own madhab,or school of law,they are often confused with the Maliki school (one of the four schools strands of Islam within the Sunni branch of Islam) since they pray with their hands at their sides(as do the Shiah) while the Sunnis(except for the Malikis) clasp their hands in front of them in prayer.The Ibadites are also found in Zanzibar,Libya,the island of Jerba in Tunisia and the region of M'zab in Algeria.

[King of Axum]

I must disagree to get a true historic game worth playing complications are inevitable.

However i respect your Opinion

[karo]

KIng of axum like Ahiga told there are limitsions to what can be moded. And there is no need for more cristianties than the two that are in the game. I'm a armenian and I don't complaine.

[Miraj]

For a mod that was created to portray the mideast world we already have two subdivisions within Christianity while Islam has none (no shiites). The likelihood of me giving each christian faction its own religious slot is, to be perfectly honest, zero.

Currently the religions are:
Islam
Catholic
Orthodox
Hinduism
Paganism
Heresy

And I think that the max number of religions allowed anyways. So even if we could go more indepth for religion it would be by subdividing Islam into Sunni and Shiite branches or adding another religion like Buddhism.

I must disagree to get a true historic game worth playing complications are inevitable.

Broken Crescent is not a true historic game and never intended to be. We take history when it suits us and is available and we dump it when its prohibitive. History is a kind of like a raw resource of ideas we mine, not a dogma that we follow to the letter. And don't forget that this is above all a wargame.

[Tucker Dan]

A Shiite branch would be nice, after all, its a mod about the middle east, and we already got two Christian denominations. Also, seeing as most factions are Muslim, this will help to split them up and distinguish them more.

[karo]

Mirage I've got a question. Where there any Shiite factions around those days because as I know most of them were Sunni. But I don't know much about the history of Islam so can you tell me

[Miraj]

Since we're on the topic, anyone know what the max religions allowed are? I know there is a limit, just not sure the exact number.

[Miraj]

There had been a few shiites/dynasties states prior to our mod's time period. There were the Fatimids of Egypt, the Buyids of Iran and a few smaller shiite emirates in what is now modern day Pakistan.

However by 1174 the Sunnis had successfully made a come back and had crushed a majority of the various shiite groups. The Seljuks and Ghazni had adopted orthodox sunni Islam to gain favor with the Caliph - so the shiites were definitely not a major power players by 1174. They were still there, just now pretty much 'underground'. Hence the reason why I didn't include a shiite faction.

[karo]

cool, thanks for the information Mirage.
It's good to learn something new

[King of Axum]

what if you get rid of the pagan slot and instead replace it as heresy then u can then add the shia islamic sect. Pulse by that time in that part of the world nobody was really a full pagan. However instead a strong mixture of many which is what heresy really is (add ons to a more established religion)

[Miraj]

Mongols and Kypchaks are both pagan. So removing the pagan slot isn't an option. There was still a lot of paganism at this time. Just like how Europe still had east european pagan enclaves. Many parts of Afghanistan, Iran, Central Asia and Pakistan had many pagan groups that were yet to be subjugated by Muslims. Not to mention the fact that some of the Muslim factions (like Ghorids) were only recent converts and hence have large Pagan percentages in their surrounding lands.

[King of Axum]

The Ghorids Sultanute of Afghanistan would be Shia muslems