Atheists on TWC

[sephodwyrm]

Just need to find our where you guys are at.
These are the criteria (not very exhaustive, other Atheists can feel free to add to the list).

If you:
1. Believe in the scientific procedure
2. are tired of religious bigotry and its inherent hypocrisies
3. are tired of god inspired wars and god inspired defenses
4. unbeliever in religious supremacy
5. believe that morality comes from our generations that preserved our altruism (which makes us successful as a species)
6. believe that gods are fun to read about but not fun to have a fight over
7. believe that gods may have historical basis in real individuals, but people choose to idolize them anyway
8. are a civilized person not apt to use personal attacks or other vulgarities

Please do sign up and comment on the current situation of atheism, some general stereotypes of it, your personal experiences as an atheist and your general reaction to it.
Yes this is about ethics and morals.
Because surprisingly, atheists are filled to the brims with ethics and morals.

By the way, the catchy advertisements of <<MEET CHRISTIAN SINGLES>> is seducing me. Seriously. THAT GIRL IS SOOOOOO HAWT!

[Chaigidel]

there is another super long thread on this sephod

[VALIS]

ALL ABOARD!!!!
I am on the athiest express.

Let me create you a scenario:

Man 1: There is a flying,fire breathing 20ft goblin in a pink tutu dress doing the ballet outside and at the same time gobbling up several school children for dinner.
Man 2: WHAT?? that ridiculous, its the most absurd thing I've ever heard!
Man 1: AH....go see for yourself!
Man 2: *sigh* I don't see anything!
Man 1: AH HAH! thats because he's invisible!
Man 2: well, I don't believe you.
Man 1: Well, if you don't believe that big monster will come and eat you up!
Man 2: This is nonsense! you can't prove anyone of this......I ask you to prove these ridiculous claims.
Man 1: MUHAH!....you can't disprove it either! henceforth the long debated saga of whether the flying,firebreathing pink tutu wearing balletdancing goblin will never be resolved and you can't prove that it exists or disprove that it exists, therefore its a draw in this argument.


Thats what it comes down to in most religious peoples argument. They made the claim that god exists and now that science has shredded holes in many of religions ideas, it comes down to 'AHH..weeelll, you can't disprove god exists either!"

Well thats true, but you can't disprove the existance of santa,the tooth fairy or the easter bunny but that doesn't mean those claims aren't ludicrous.
The fact that these people put such blind faith in a being that there is absolutley no evidence it exists is what it really terrifying.
Why not believe in santa or the tooth fairy? what makes them any more silly than the existance of god?
There is just as much evidence to support their existence as there is gods ie; zero.

[sephodwyrm]

This thread is meant for atheists to get together and talk about their experience being an atheist, and to serve as a thread that will involve atheists in talking about morals.

I was wondering where all that negative stereotype of atheists come from.
Given that most of the wars in this world were started by religious men, there should be a bigger polemic against the religious and the faithful. And yet atheists get all the flak?

Can some atheist explain?

[Shaun]

Remember, we have the anti-religion thread for things like this.

[sephodwyrm]

But that thread is giant and is rather dated.
And plus, Atheists aren't anti-religion per se.
That thread has too much of an aggressive tone to it.
Here we like to be civil and nice. We like to talk about experiences being an atheist, some technical difficulties, our arguments for ethics and morals etc. It is trying to tell the fact that atheists are also moral and upright individuals.

[IndianPrince]

Agreed ... i am an atheist ... and i am not anti-religious ... i am just an atheist (and a proud one at that ... u lil pesky religious people )

Anyways ... the point being that thought i am an atheist i respect several religions like Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, etc for their plus points & applaud what moral fibre they've constructed in our society yet like all atheists i think religion is stupid

Cheers

Prince

[Slime]

Well, both theists and atheists alike share one thing: there are always the ignorant, arrogant and noisy types that make both sides look bad. As TWC has had it's share of atheist-theist fights, it's always the bad ones that stand out and usually it's these individuals from which stereotypes are made.

One side just sometimes happens to be the less-respected one, mostly due to the unfortunate stereotypes. I have to admit that many atheist can be quite aggressive in defending their ideas, and they are a minority compared to religions. But with a minor effort, most of us can get along pretty nicely, no?

Some thing I don't get is some christians who don't seem to comprehend where atheists get their morals from (without the Bible, that is). The ten commandments, for example, are very basic social rules. There are many societies based on practically identical ideas, with or without religion. Some credit has to be given to the humankind too. Pre-biblical humans hardly killed each others in hypercannibalistic orgies while stealing their neighbours' belongings at the same time over and over again, or did they?

I respect everyone's believes, but will they respect mine?

[Feliks]

I range from staunch atheist to deist depending on my mood. Usually, however, I settle somewhere around agnostic humanist.

Kind of like the wheel of fortune.

[sephodwyrm]

The ten commandments, for example, are very basic social rules.

Let us go over the list of the 10 commandments.

1. "I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before Me..."
Excuse me.
But just because YOU supposedly rescued the Jews from Egypt (which has little archaeological proof anyway) why am I supposed to worship you and no one else?
How am I so sure that you are right while Nuwa, Yuhuang, Apollo, Odin, Thor or Iduna is wrong?

2. "Do not make an image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."
Something that people are very good at doing.
In the Modern Film Industry.

3. "Do not swear falsely by the name of the LORD..."
Yeah yeah.
God told me to strike, and I did so.
George W Bush
I am VERY SURE that HE DID NOT hear anything from God.
So heck, no one takes this one seriously either.

4. "Remember [zachor] the Sabbath day and keep it holy" (the version in Deuteronomy reads shamor, "observe")
Observe the Sabbath?
Gimme a break.
People sin most on Saturdays and Sundays. The reason being its the weekend. You have spare time to sin.

5. "Honor your father and your mother..."
I have yet to see this in the Bible.
Reuben slept with his own "mother" (I believe it was the handmaiden of his father's other wife, whom his father also slept with).
How honorable can you get?
Even Jesus said some stupid things about his Mom in the Bible.

6. "Do not murder"
LMAO.
Half a million and counting in Iraq.
Plus, the Bible tells you what type of people you should eks-a-cute.
So deliberate contradiction there. Within the same text.

7. "Do not commit adultery."
Bill Clinton?
Nuff said.
He's still a cool guy.

8. "Do not steal."
But we do it anyway. Some examples being Australia getting a good chunk of the territorial waters of East Timor, and the US provisional occupation government pilfering 23 billion from the rebuilding funds (paid for by Iraqi oil)

9. "Do not bear false witness against your neighbor"
US lied about Iraq having WMDs, using it as an excuse to invade her.
Invalid.

10. "Do not covet your neighbor's wife"
Given that adultery rates are on the rise, no this is not doing much.

Anyway, the commandments dealing with worship is definitely not common sense, and those regarding common social behavior are being glossed over and ignored when the opportunity arises. If anything, I find atheists to be superior in morals. At least they aren't hypocrites.

if your basing your choices on logic and fact.

Something that we all await, patiently, from this particular forum user.

[IndianPrince]

Let us go over the list of the 10 commandments.

1. "I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before Me..."
Excuse me.
But just because YOU supposedly rescued the Jews from Egypt (which has little archaeological proof anyway) why am I supposed to worship you and no one else?
How am I so sure that you are right while Nuwa, Yuhuang, Apollo, Odin, Thor or Iduna is wrong?

2. "Do not make an image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."
Something that people are very good at doing.
In the Modern Film Industry.

3. "Do not swear falsely by the name of the LORD..."
Yeah yeah.
God told me to strike, and I did so.
George W Bush
I am VERY SURE that HE DID NOT hear anything from God.
So heck, no one takes this one seriously either.

4. "Remember [zachor] the Sabbath day and keep it holy" (the version in Deuteronomy reads shamor, "observe")
Observe the Sabbath?
Gimme a break.
People sin most on Saturdays and Sundays. The reason being its the weekend. You have spare time to sin.

5. "Honor your father and your mother..."
I have yet to see this in the Bible.
Reuben slept with his own "mother" (I believe it was the handmaiden of his father's other wife, whom his father also slept with).
How honorable can you get?
Even Jesus said some stupid things about his Mom in the Bible.

6. "Do not murder"
LMAO.
Half a million and counting in Iraq.
Plus, the Bible tells you what type of people you should eks-a-cute.
So deliberate contradiction there. Within the same text.

7. "Do not commit adultery."
Bill Clinton?
Nuff said.
He's still a cool guy.

8. "Do not steal."
But we do it anyway. Some examples being Australia getting a good chunk of the territorial waters of East Timor, and the US provisional occupation government pilfering 23 billion from the rebuilding funds (paid for by Iraqi oil)

9. "Do not bear false witness against your neighbor"
US lied about Iraq having WMDs, using it as an excuse to invade her.
Invalid.

10. "Do not covet your neighbor's wife"
Given that adultery rates are on the rise, no this is not doing much.

Anyway, the commandments dealing with worship is definitely not common sense, and those regarding common social behavior are being glossed over and ignored when the opportunity arises. If anything, I find atheists to be superior in morals. At least they aren't hypocrites.

Good stuff there ...

Especially the Bill Clinton thingy ... lolz ... But yeah he is a pretty cool guy though

Prince

[Chaigidel]

just remind yourself that atheism is illogical as theism--- and that agnosticism is the only truly reasoned and logical choice.--- if your basing your choices on logic and fact.

[rathelios]

just remind yourself that atheism is illogical as theism--- and that agnosticism is the only truly reasoned and logical choice.--- if your basing your choices on logic and fact.

How is atheism illogical, Chai? It is not illogical to say something is so unlikely that it is all but impossible. It is impossible to live without applying probability in this way constantly. Please explain why it is illogical to do so with regard to the existence of gods.

[LegionnaireX]

How is atheism illogical, Chai? It is not illogical to say something is so unlikely that it is all but impossible. It is impossible to live without applying probability in this way constantly. Please explain why it is illogical to do so with regard to the existence of gods.

My question to you is, how do you know it is unlikely? What basis do you have to judge the likelihood of their being a higher power? Because you can't disprove or prove the existence of God, the only stance using pure logic is agnosticism. There have been millions of people through time that have personally testified to witnessing the work of a higher power in their lives. You seem to disreguard this testimonial evidence and its claimants as kooks while forming you own assumptions reguarding the likelihood of existence of a higher power.

[Serious Spamurai]

There have been millions of people through time that have personally testified to witnessing the work of a higher power in their lives. You seem to disreguard this testimonial evidence and its claimants as kooks while forming you own assumptions reguarding the likelihood of existence of a higher power.

There are also millions of people who claim that Jews are evil, does that mean that they're evil?

[LegionnaireX]

There are also millions of people who claim that Jews are evil, does that mean that they're evil?

I didn't say claim or think, I said testify. There have been millions of have testified to having bared witness to acts of God. But of course you think such people are schizophrenic and need to see a doctor.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

just remind yourself that atheism is illogical as theism--- and that agnosticism is the only truly reasoned and logical choice.--- if your basing your choices on logic and fact.

Chaigidel - who do you keep making this pronouncement when we've been over this about three times already. Do I have to go over the meanings of "atheism" and "agnosticism" with you AGAIN?! Didn't we do this only a few weeks ago?

basically to be an atheist or a theist means you have taken some sort of stand on a subject that you will never be involved in nor will it ever be involved with you.

Which is the case for just about all philosophical questions. So what you're saying is that if we can't know for certain we shouldn't even bother thinking about it or taking a provisional position based on what we do know at this stage?

it is far more logical to simply say "I dont know"

Agnosticism isn't saying "I don't know", it's saying "We can't possibly know in any way at all." Big difference. I quite happily say "I don't know" if there is a God or not for certain, but I disagree with the agnostic on whether this being, if he did exist, would be utterly unknowable.

If you don't disagree with agnostics on that key point then fine. But don't tell me that I should agree with them and that, therefore, their position is more "logical". It's only more "logical" if they are right on that issue. I think they are wrong. So most other atheists and all theists.

[Chaigidel]

basically to be an atheist or a theist means you have taken some sort of stand on a subject that you will never be involved in nor will it ever be involved with you.--- so to say it doesnt matter whether or not god exists so to claim a position in either respect is at best illogical.

it is far more logical to simply say "I dont know" and then move on to more useful subjects.-- because you arent discussing a baseball or a nail your not discussing things that are apparent--- your discussing what cannot be known, ever--- no matter how much science there is it will never ask is there a god--- because it is not a question---when you ask and make a decision you become like any theist, your personal distastes for religion being more a motivation for atheism than any genuine belief-- because you dont know you cant know.

so to say you even Have an idea is pretty silly in my eyes

sephod Im still waiting for you to present any point at all--- instead of ranting about the idiocy you see in this or that religion, why not actually discuss it?

I freely admit im on the silly side and Im a monotheist-- I recognize this mentally as being irrational just as I recognize atheism as being irrational.

so please if your an atheist do not pride yourself on logic and reason for you do not employ either. despite your claims.

[Gwendylyn]

8. are a civilized person not apt to use personal attacks or other vulgarities

Why does this matter? It has nothing to do with one's religious beliefs.

basically to be an atheist or a theist means you have taken some sort of stand on a subject that you will never be involved in nor will it ever be involved with you.--- so to say it doesnt matter whether or not god exists so to claim a position in either respect is at best illogical.

it is far more logical to simply say "I dont know" and then move on to more useful subjects.-- because you arent discussing a baseball or a nail your not discussing things that are apparent--- your discussing what cannot be known, ever--- no matter how much science there is it will never ask is there a god--- because it is not a question---when you ask and make a decision you become like any theist, your personal distastes for religion being more a motivation for atheism than any genuine belief-- because you dont know you cant know.

so to say you even Have an idea is pretty silly in my eyes

sephod Im still waiting for you to present any point at all--- instead of ranting about the idiocy you see in this or that religion, why not actually discuss it?

I freely admit im on the silly side and Im a monotheist-- I recognize this mentally as being irrational just as I recognize atheism as being irrational.

so please if your an atheist do not pride yourself on logic and reason for you do not employ either. despite your claims.

Actually, at the risk of turning this into another debate on agnosticism vs. atheism... atheism is the more logical state. This is according to the rules of logic itself, not a "I'm better than you nanananana!" mentality.

If you refuse to hold a position on the existence of an unproven God because of lack of evidence either way, then you accept the possibility of a god. You also have to accept the possibility of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, great Xenu, Zues, Thor, and the invisible pink unicorn I have in my garage. None of them have evidence of existence, and you can't find evidence they don't exist. Therefore, according to your logic, you have to accept that there is a possibility they exist and take the middle road.

Or just go with the simplest explanation and Occam's razor and all that jazz.

Although it is very difficult to find an atheist girl around where I live unless they are emo/goth/punk.

Move to a city.

[sephodwyrm]

sephod Im still waiting for you to present any point at all--- instead of ranting about the idiocy you see in this or that religion, why not actually discuss it?

This poster wants me to present a point.
The point is here.
The Biblical texts hold DETAILED ACCOUNT of MALE CHAUVINISM, HYPOCRISY, SEXUAL DEVIANCY, EVIL and GENOCIDE.
It is not idiocy I see in religion.
It is EVIL.
I never said religion was retarded.
I said that religion was evil.
And that people choosing this specific religion as their "moral support and example" are the retarded ones.

So yes. You want me to discuss it. Why not actually say how the stories of Samson, Jephthah, Judah and Tamar, Isaac and his 4 wives, David and his rebellious son Absalom and how David obtained his wife Bathsheba supposed to be stories of moral example?

I have Biblical evidence on my hand.
The only thing on my mind that can actually save you is that Biblical records hold no archaeological water and henceforth, largely fictitious. So yes, these stories, describing immoral behavior in the Bible, are perhaps largely fiction.