Creative Assembly hates the Byzantine Empire and here is the proof.

[GiorgioIII]

Facts that make Byzantine Empire unplayable :

1) Wrong historical color
2) All units use the same kind of armor even if you upgrade them
3) Lack of variety ( Huge inaccuracy as in Byzantium the troops belonged in regiments that had three different colors : Green red and blue
4) Priests look like catholics
5) Total absence of the orthodox patriarch ( the equivalent Pope for orthodoxs )
6) Very limited provinces in campaign ( City of Athens missing, The fortified castle of Mystra near sparta missing and so on..)
7) In the upcoming Kingdoms expansion the lack of variety continues ( Greek firethrower unit resembles dismounted latinkon.Also a two handed swordman introduced that even though is a historically accurate unit, the sword resembles scottish highlanders instead of Greek Spatha)
8) Byzantium's shields and armor is not decorated as other factions
9) Byzantine temples look like catholic ones
10) Absence of the famous Hippodrome of Constantinople ( CA did give though bull fighting games for spain)
11) The province of nicea was the first foothold of Turks and it was recaptured after the first crusade with the help of the crusaders, it was not under byzantine command the date the game beggins
12) Dyrachium however was( it appears as rebel settlement)
13) Byzantine empire traditional borders was the danube river and emperors fought to maintain it, however in M2TW does not

[Kiki52]

I am sure there will be a mod that improves Byzantium to uber levels. There are some now that give them some sort of heavy spearmen, and others with musketeers and other things. Other mods give them new skins.

I think CA did it to make it so Byzantium is easy to destroy because it is historical. In real life, the Turks defeated them so they want to make it somewhat historical in the game. The same with Egypt, they are also to be weak so that the Turks can defeat them too like they did in real life.

CA probably also likes to focus more on Western European factions because they compose the majority of what is popular in Australia, Europe, and America/Canada.

[Empress Meg]

I suppose that they are not being fair, but to say that CA hates a collective group of folks is a bit off the mark. They are just trying to make them uniformed to fit into the scope of the TW game. They could have gone far more realistic that is true, but if they had, then where would the modders be? ;P

Colours, armour, and weapons are made so that they match and look pleasing rather then being historic. This is the right of the developers.

Various units are made up of generals rather then specifics. They might have taken various examples and modelled them into one unit. This is understandable as creating the various unit types sen in the 400 year period would have been emense.

In all fairness, the above points could be said about most of the factions found in M2TW. When you play on such a large scale, the details must fall away to reach a wider audience and place in the most important/popular events and troops.

Devoirs The Empress

[GiorgioIII]

Byzantine Empire fell in 1453 shortly before the game ends. What you say makes no sence and egypt has similar roster to the turks except late era

[Farnan]

Also, the Byzantines have a pretty powerful roster of strong Heavy Infantry, and elite horsearchers who can also function as medium cavalry.

[Mountain_Commander]

Disgruntled Goat has done a re-skin for the Byzantines that looks as good or better. Mostly brown in place of the purple with some fancy chainmail.

One Faction at A Time Project.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...A+Time+Project

[Sher Khan]

Plus they get those absolutely fabulous purple boots. What do those other uncultured factions know of style?


It's nothing to worry about. With the fierce Byzantine love you find around here, you can be sure every other mod will make Byzantium some ultimate faction just as sure everyone will make longbows even stronger.

[crazyj]

Yea the Byz can field both infantry heavy (including many armored dismounted archers) forces and pure cav forces. I just wish they had naptha like in MT1, handgunners, and grand bombards.

[GiorgioIII]

Nice one !!!!! Mybe CA should search here for more talented designers

[Condell]

Giorgioll, i dont know if you are into mods but some of the more popular mods out there add units like pikeman, gunpowder units and etc. to byzantines. They also improve the map by adding more provinces. Stainless Steel mod is one i can think of on top of my head.

[AdmiringtheEnemyeh?]

Man this is a true insult to me. I love their purple! It makes them look so cool, am i alone on this?

[Kalos]

Yes.

[Војвода Драгутин Кесеровић]

Giorgio has a point. For example, here's a historically correct coat of arms for ByzantAttachment 4814

And here's how the insignia on their shields and armour should actually look
(if we're gonna stick to the history)Attachment 4814

Please refrain from posting copyrighted material.

Attachment 4818

[ProneStar!]

seen this thread about a couple dozen times. Always gets the same responses from people that are greatly uninformed. We all know that the turks finally defeated the byz in 1453, but how many people realize that the byz had the only professional armies in the world until the renaissance(which only happened because of the sheer amount of artwork, writing, and general culture stolen by the italians, mainly venice, after the 4th crusade). The notion that the byz were pushovers couldnt be farther from the truth, they were in a state of almost constant warfare from the time of Justinian till their final defeat in 1453. They kept the east at bay for over a THOUSAND years and were the sole reason that western europe could even get past petty barbarian tribes and become solidified countries. The tiny little kingdoms in the west were having their petty squabbles with a few thousand troops being a large army, while armies of 50,000+ were fighting to keep the east from invading europe. One of the biggest factors in the fall of the rhomanoi was simply having to fight not only the persians, turks, egyptians, various barbarian tribes, and then later being stabbed in the back constantly by the italians and western europeans.


Yes CA doesnt really care about the eastern factions in this game. Then again if they actually developed the greek romans like they should the game would be almost no contest for the player, considering that they had the best heavy cavalry, horse archers, and infantry who were mostly professional soldiers not levies or vassals. True they did use mercenaries quite a bit, but the actual soldiers of the empire were the best in the time period bar none.

[Tony83]

In many ways CA have done the memory of Byzantium a great favour!

If you read through the Med II forums, for every posting on a Western or Islamic faction there must be at least ten singing the praises of the true Roman Empire. People who are normally docile and quiet have sprung to the defence of the double headed eagle.

Whether intended or not they have raised its public profile and interest in its history incredibly, and I bet Amazon sales of Byzy books has gone up quite a bit since Med II was released.

[One_man_warrior]

Hey whats the matter with you!!!!
Who doesn't hate the Byzantines

[daffyff]

Then again if they actually developed the greek romans like they should the game would be almost no contest for the player, considering that they had the best heavy cavalry, horse archers, and infantry who were mostly professional soldiers not levies or vassals. True they did use mercenaries quite a bit, but the actual soldiers of the empire were the best in the time period bar none.

One thing that the game developer's need to think about is balance in a strategy game. Historically, the byzantine empire had more problems in it's infrastructure and leadership which prohibited them from re-conquering the world, despite their more elite (and expensive) military. In M2TW, such things aren't a factor so much, being that the leader is a single human. What fun would the game be if you would get your ass kicked by the Byzantine Empire every time you tried another faction? Or if everyone played the Byz in online battles?

Which causes me to wonder...is there a way to increase or decrease a faction's efficiency or corruption stats? Or maybe a way to give the french a negative morale stat so they capitulate more often?

[Teodosio]

Yes CA doesnt really care about the eastern factions in this game. Then again if they actually developed the greek romans like they should the game would be almost no contest for the player.

If CA portrayed the eastern romans as they really were, then at game start it would be already 500+ year that they were repulsing Goths, Bulgarians, Franks, Slavs, etc... by paying them. They hided under the names of "gifts" and "subsidies" what were really tributes.
Of course they had many strong units and CA didn't do a good work with them, but they had many problems as well, I think the main was corruption, as in the late western empire.
The eastern empire survived so long only because of bribes everywhere (strong trade, silk etc., provided good money) and because Constantinople was impregnable before gunpowder.

The eastern empire lacks in vanilla more heavy infantry and horse archers. Colours are ridiculous too.

[Funnage]

You and that polish fellow should get together and talk to figure out who CA hates more.

[Sher Khan]

Excellent. Good to see we have a fanboyism that's just as healthy as any other.

Now we just need a counter fanboydom to make things even more interesting.

Too bad us Turk faction fans are above such fanworship.

>:3