Germania faction - strategy discussion

[Noumenon]

I was looking around for a faction to start playing with which is both challenging and and interesting to play with. I tried a numidian campaign, but several CTD's after my impressive blitzkrieg against carthage just took the eagerness out of me. I know those germans use hell of a lot of javelins as a precursor weapons. They work extremely well against barbaric factions - they actually devastate anything in their way. But since I like some challenge I'd like to know if they will be as much effective against some heavy armored troops like the roman ones or phalanx-based armies. I just don't want it to be a cookie-cutter.

Thanks, Noumenon.

[Delvecchio1975]

There's a few good AARs around on Germania - They do well initially until the Macedons show up, then the situation becomes impossible. Biggest problem is that financially you can't keep the black stacks at a distance - they come faster than you can refill your own...
Unless you wanna do something weird like vacate Germania and sail to Carthage, blitz them and build an empire from there (read that too

[SoleBastard]

As one hailing from Ulpia Noviomagus Batavorum I just had to create a dominant Germanic empire and I can give you some hints on how to achieve this too:

Playing and winning with Germania resolves around two things: money & good AAR units.

In the beginning trade is vital in getting your economy growing. Build roads and trading posts as soon as possible. Next step is to expand your empire along the coast to 'pre-create' a Hanseatic league of your own stretching from Belgica to Locus Aestui (while you're there get the gold mine in Hyperboria too, the Sarmatians seem to ignore it). Britannica is cool to have and will give your naval economy a huge boost, as a bonus your can build AAR heavy chariots over there (I hope this is fixed in 1.9?)!

Indeed, your javelin-hurling war-crying hordes make short work of the barbarians around you, so expanding southwest into Gaul and even Iberia are very viable options and will provide you with much needed gold and some more good AAR troops/mounts.

This is all good and well but the Macedonian phalangial horde *will* oppose you sooner or later. Allying yourself with the Illyrians, Thracians/Dacians and Sarmatians and providing them with money by trading and lump sum gifts perhaps stalls the Macedonian onslaught a bit but in the end they won't stand a chance against the Non-Plague-Black-Death. Dealing with their armies you have to have full stacks of your own including your now battle-hardened javelin troops, good heavy horses (Iberian for example) and your terror troops of Swartas Skelthús. Use the first to pin down the cumbersome phalanxia (your javelins won't do much damage though so you might want to hold them) and the latter two to outflank and charge. Watch them brake in fear of your bodypainted freaks! The biggest problem I had was with the hypapsistai, in RTR: PE 1.7 they still had 2HP and were virtually indestructible, in 1.9 however they are more balanced so they should be easier to defeat.
As barbarians you can go all out barbarian on those so-called civilized peoples : ambush them, raze cities, destroy all their buildings and leave it to riot, spread the plague, etc. etc.

So yes you'll have a hard time facing superior infantry like the Macedonians but beating them is certainly possible ánd lots of fun!

[thebigbossnahhh]

One has to agree, Macedon Stack after Macedon stack just pours into my lands.
The best way I dealt with this is to leave the Southern Rebel lands untouched and use them as a buffer between Germany and Macedon, while I take all of Scandinavia and Britain.
Then I push into Gaul and defeat them.

Currently I have reduced the Iberians to a few regions, Rome has been reduced to one region by Carthage, they are pretty much hoarding me.
I was lucky to be offered Vassalage by the Carthaginian's I accepted to concentrate all my armies on Macedon.
I've managed to push Macedon South.
Were wrestling over the North East Italian/Greek road. I just hope the Thracian's stay quiet. As I push Macedon further south.

[Vates Ignifer]

Hello everybody, I just registered on these boards, since I got RTW Gold last week and installed RTR the day after. I also chose the German tribes (short campaign), mainly because I was curious about their units.

First, I conquered the independent neighbours, which took pretty long, because I rallied all forces into one strong army to sweep across the map. I made peace with Gaul for the time being, and allied with Rome, Macedonia and Sarmatia. Imagine my surprise when Macedon armies started laying siege to Noricum and the Markomannii!
I mustered one full army under the faction leader and his heir, and moved to conquer Pannonia in order to shorten the front line. This worked, and my army is holding its ground there, but shortly thereafter, Macedonia wiped out Thracia, so I have a long border to Macedonia again.

In the West, things are relatively docile for me: when Rome started warring with Gaul (and long before the Macedonian threat), I remembered my duties as ally and sent a small army (mainly mercenaries) to conquer the northern regions. By now, Rome has won most of italy (minus two or three provinces), the Gallic spirit is broken (though they still don't want to make peace), and my western army just has to sweep across the map to pluck all Gallic settlements like ripe fruit.

In the East, things look much more difficult, since I am also experiencing the "black stacks" mentioned in this thread. An attempt to bribe a Macedon 5-star general was fruitless (although his traits say "20% cheaper to bribe"), he just wouldn't hear any of it. I suppose I should send an assassin or two his way. Now there are probably two or three full Macedonian armies against my single one (which I regularly entrench in forts).

As for the battles themselves, they are challenging but not impossible, at least against Captains or low-star Generals. I dread the day when I have to fight a high-star general. In the last battle (about 2.600 on each side), I killed about half of them including the General, while losing 100 of my own troops.

Is there a thread on german tactics? A forum search came up with about seven thousand hits.
Thanks.

[florin80]

Is there a thread on german tactics? A forum search came up with about seven thousand hits.
Thanks.

If it is it`s pretty old. I don`t remember a recent one. There were a lot of guides on how to play with different factions(both historical guides and advices) at the RTR forums, but they went down and all the guides went down with them.

[Vates Ignifer]

Depressing thought : Frumor Thundaz vs Hastati, the Frumor Thundaz got absolutely owned.

It's true, but iirc the FT cost something like 360 denarii and the Hastati is more like 460. The problem is, Hastati are rather the worst Roman infantry while Thundaz are pretty much the best German infantry (save Semnones). I have some more thoughts about this but I'll post that in the RTR 7.0 thread.

[MavsWorld]

You are Germans, you should be able to field a larger army than the Romans, so just swarm round them. Also remember that Romans have awful Cavalry, so just win the cavarly battle and slaughter their troops. Remember your men are expendable, so tie up their heavy infantry with you light troops then bring 4-5 heavy cav into their back. 5 cav units will send most units running. You win a battle by routing the opponent, not by killing them all. Also each Roman killed is worth a lot more than your men.

[Darkarbiter]

It's true, but iirc the FT cost something like 360 denarii and the Hastati is more like 460. The problem is, Hastati are rather the worst Roman infantry while Thundaz are pretty much the best German infantry (save Semnones). I have some more thoughts about this but I'll post that in the RTR 7.0 thread.

Semnone sanchaz are the berserkers right? They are absolutely crap. Far too small in unit size... they have been gimped since the 2hp was removed.

As germans... pretty much anything but the Sarmatians are easy. Germans v.s. Sarmatian battles are REALLY interesting though.
As said above the romans are a bit more tricky... but theres valid counters for them too. The easiest faction to beat is probably the Gauls.
The gauls are just gimped in RTR gold/platinum... and the AI doesn't know how to handle phalanx v.s. german battles too well either.

Certainly germany is very interesting to play tacticly... where RTR is one of the mods that has such deep strategy that speed is as valid a strength as raw defence.

[El_Saracen]

Been having a lot of fun in custom battle mode playing as the Germans against the Romans.

With the Germans its all about using strength in numbers and speed to overwhelm elite enemy. The problem is that sometimes your entire frontline can be routed very quickly before you have chance to send your units round to the flanks/rear.

Germanic cavalry always beats Roman cavalry.

I love the amount of throwing spears that the German units carry. Its so satisfying having a unit repeatedly pelt the rear of a cohort with spears while another unit holds them up. Then when out of spears, charging into the back of the enemy. Quality.

Chosen Axemen - wtf?? They were cool at the time but now its just silly.

Love this mod. Thanks to all involved.

[GandhiTheHun]

I just today got RTR. I took over the entire map with Germania in the original, and i intend to do it in this version. I don't know what you are all talking about--Macedonians are easy as pie for me. From the start of the game i sent like 4 diplomats out into the world and got trade rights and map info with..everyone. Then macedonia declared war on me for allying with the illyrians. I also allied with gaul, we 3 have a war against macedonia. I have annihilated them in 3 huge battles, one of which was an awesome ambush. I have plenty of troops, im expanding into rebel towns. they can't touch me it seems, yet they are right next to me. I'm still pretty early in the game though, and its only on medium on the campaign map (very hard in battles, though).

My problem is that i am not used to the units: i cannot very well gauge their strength: which one's are the best? how do i get the better units? It almost seems like i have many versions of the same basic kind of unit: lightinfantry with shield, spear, javelins. Also, are the berserkers in this crappy? i honestly cannot tell. They seem.. ok, but not as devastating as the original. Is German cavalry really that good?

[Jamey]

My problem is that i am not used to the units: i cannot very well gauge their strength: which one's are the best? how do i get the better units? It almost seems like i have many versions of the same basic kind of unit: lightinfantry with shield, spear, javelins. Also, are the berserkers in this crappy? i honestly cannot tell. They seem.. ok, but not as devastating as the original. Is German cavalry really that good?

Welcome to the forums.

Germany is my favorite faction. I've had some truly epic games with it. Macedon grows over time. If you don't deal with it early, it has a tendency to take over pretty much all of eastern Europe. If you do deal with them early (I often build a network of alliances in that area just for the purpose of slowing or stopping Macedon), it isn't a big deal. If course, you always have the option of ignoring them and letting them grow. That will result in a truly epic war later in the game.

With respect to your units, the first thing you should know is that Germany has a lot of unique units which it can recruit in other parts of the world. Make sure you take a look at what units you could build in each settlement in the building browser when deciding what buildings to buy.

Here are my comments on the various units:

• Franka Gathesaz - Your basic infantry. It moves quickly and throws 120 javelins in a volley. Do not underestimate it; I use these as the bulk of my armies. They make a very nice battle line and are phenomenal at running down routers.
• Furmas Thundaz - Your elite spear infantry. I normally use them for flanking attacks. They have a high attack, cause fear in infantry, and throw volleys of javelins. Their spears mean that they demolish any cavalry foolish enough to charge them.
• Swartas Skelthús - The blackshields. They can be built south and west of Germany's start position (I normally build up Viberi to construct them). They are armed with sword and javelin. They inspire fear in enemy infantry. They are useful for many purposes, but they are not heavy enough to go toe to toe with opposing elite troops unsupported.
• Semnone Sachsaz - Elite berserkers. I don't care for them much. The unit's small size combined with the inability to control them once they start fighting makes them more a novelty than a generally useful unit.
• Wudumánnōz - Archers. They're useful, but you should head east for Sarmatian merc archers instead because of their longer range.
• Aujō Wrakjôz - Clubmen (club and javelin). They are your cheapest garrison unit. They can be built east of your starting location. I generally don't bother with them.
• Thunoraz Húsaz - Your heavy cavalry. These are nice cavalry; the javelin volley before a charge is quite damaging. I generally find the maintenance on them too high and use Gallic Noble Cavalry mercenary/AOR units.

Beyond that, I don't use the other German units much. I like to use Gallic Slingers and Gallic Noble Cavalry in support of my German armies for much of the game. I'll substitute Sarmatian mercenary archers and cavalry when I can. Once I get down into 'civilized' lands, I tend to support my Germans with whatever local cavalry/ranged units are the best in that area.

In general, it's best to remember that the Germans with by numbers, mobility, flanking, and breaking enemy morale. Several of the better German infantry units inspire fear in enemy infantry.

Finally, remember that your playing a barbarian faction. As such, you should be chasing down and exterminating the enemy with no mercy! When playing Germany, I consider it a failure if any enemy units leave the field of battle or if my general is not involved in fighting unbroken units. I also consider it a failure if any of my combat leaders die in bed rather than having heroic deaths on the battlefield.

[LeoDowner]

The Macedonians are tough for any faction obviously but they can certainly be beaten by the Germans! I only ever play VH/VH for every single game I start and I usually manage to handle to Macs. I like to get at them early and expand in their direction as quickly as possible, even wait for the plague to arrive in Macedonia and use a large network of spies to ensure their whole empire suffers from the plague. Macedonia are only able to field massive armies of expensive units because their cities are rich trading cities on the Aegean, plaguing these cities massively affects their income aswell as hurting their stacks and hopefully killing a few strong family members too.

When you get into their lands I find it useful to use the small mountain ranges to the north, near the Thracian lands. Position your armies in the mountains and let them come to you. When you come to the battlefield you should be able to sit your whole army atop a steep hill. The Macs will be exhausted before they even reach you, you can pelt them with your javelins as they run up the mountain and when they get to you their morale will be so low that some of them break before even making contact with you. Also if you position yourself on a high enough point you can actually charge headfirst into a phalanx and get right through them, either breaking the unit or getting into a fight without the huge spears. Fighting this way means I can send one full stack army of otherwise weak infantry units and decimate upto 10 stacks on Macs on VH/VH before having to send reinforcements, works well for all kinds of units but better with the Germans because of the amount of spears they can throw.

Basically:

- Try to cripple their economy by plaguing their Cities, alliances are obviously important too.

- Expand southwards ASAP.

- Position your army in the mountains and let them come to you! Keep spies around their lands so you know who, where and how many are coming for you.

Hope that helps, I love the Germans but I get bored of using the same tactics all the time.

[GandhiTheHun]

thanks to both of you very much, i have been too defensive i think--thats about to change.

[LeoDowner]

If you use the 'defending in the mountains' tactic there is one spot inparticular that you should use on the campaign map. Just south of the Thracian city Ratiaria there's a narrow passage between two very steep mountains, almost looks like a gateway on the map. Plonk your army inbetween those peaks and wait for the attack. When they do attack shift your army as high up the NEAR VERTICAL slope as possible. You're almost guaranteed to win because of the massive advantage in your positioning. Some may call it cheating I just call it using the terrain to my advantage.