Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 70

Thread: Helios 16 - American Liberty

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1

    Default Helios 16 - American Liberty

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldgamer
    I'm Proud to be an American ...

    These are the days in which all Americans are expected to be ashamed of their country. People from other continents and countries tell us this, all the time. And yet, it is in times like this that I am most proud to be an American.

    Why should I be proud of being an American? As it has been told to me, America is the worst polluter on the planet. America is the worst terrorist nation on the planet. America is an aggressive empire, seeking to extend its hegemony over the planet. America is a racist and genocidal state, having held millions of black Africans in slavery for over four hundred years, and slaughtering the indigenous population without mercy. America is a capitalist state, holding its citizens in virtual slavery to interest and the corporations.

    At least, this is what we're told ...

    From the standpoint of its geography alone, I am proud to be an American. I've been able to travel extensively, in my country, and everywhere I see the grandeur, the beauty, and the pure unadulterated space that attracted our forefathers to this continent. From the Atlantic to the Pacific, from the Rio Grande to the border with Canada, I have traveled the United States and witnessed the power and majesty of the country. Forests, lakes, mighty rivers, vast plains that feed the world, rolling hills, and towering mountain ranges that kiss the sky, I've seen this country. What is there not to be proud of?

    I've gone deep into the back-country of Arkansas, with nothing more to sustain me than my wit, my skills, and my equipment. There are places where you can travel for up to a hundred miles, and never see a human inhabitant. I've encountered deer and bear that obviously have not had contact with people, if their behavior is any indication. I remember sitting up from a long night's sleep, in the midst of twenty deer, some of which were only a few paces away from me, and watching them graze and play for over an hour. They took little notice of me.

    In the north, I've gone into the vast pine forests near Voyageur National Park, and sat close to my campfire, as I listen to the plaintive howl of wolves in the distance.

    Whether the mountains of the west, the deserts of the Southwest, or the thousands of miles of seashore, I've walked and driven this country “from sea to shining sea”, and I'm proud of it. I'm proud to be part of it.

    I'm also proud of our system of government. This country was built by hard-working, hard-fisted, straight-shooting, God-fearing people who escaped the numberless tyrannies and castes of Europe, and carved out an empire of freedom in the wilderness that was America. When Europe objected, they declared themselves to be free, and put their lives on the line, literally, to secure that liberty.

    With their independence won by blood, they could have replicated what their forefathers escaped from on this continent. But they didn't. George Washington did not become King George ... which would have been a great irony, indeed ... but instead, became President Washington, as the head of state and government of a political system which endures to this day. That government was based upon values and beliefs that were codified in our Constitution, and have provided the people of the United States with the liberty to choose their own way of life and worship, in a way that had never happened before in the long, sad, oppressive history of the human race.

    Finally, I'm proud of what America has done with this vast liberty. True it is, our cities are not alabaster, some of our leaders have led us astray ... and some are still trying to do so ... and not everything that America and Americans have done is worthy of pride. But consider what America has done ...

    We have overcome our basest instincts and created a nation of laws and liberties. It is these liberties that have made our nation economically and militarily strong, and it is our laws that have protected the innocent against those who would prey upon the weak. It is the unique balance of law and liberty that has brought untold millions to our shores with hope, and in search their place in the world. They have come here, from Europe, from Africa, from Asia, from Central and South America, and from the multitudinous islands of the Pacific, in search of their dreams of freedom. As Emma Lazarus put it, “the wretched refuse of your teeming shore”.

    What is this thing that they have sought?

    As simply stated as I can put it, what the millions have sought is something that you cannot understand, until you hold it in your hand.

    I'm proud of this nation that overcame itself, and sacrificed six hundred thousand of its sons so that men could be free. I realize that this statement is itself contentious, one hundred forty years after the end of the Civil War. But what was the effect of the War? Men were set free.

    In Ottawa, Illinois, is Washington Park, which was the site of the first debate between Abraham Lincoln and Stephen Douglas, in 1858. Lincoln stated flatly that there was no difference in the humanity of “negroes” and white men, and that the slaves should be free. He based his arguments upon the Declaration of Independence, which stated that all men were created equal, and that all men were endowed by “their Creator with certain inalienable rights, and among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.” He also based his argument upon the Constitution. Stephen Douglas took the position that the States should decide the question of slavery for themselves, and that his position was Constitutional.

    I agree with both of them. That's the beauty of the American system. I have the right to agree and disagree, and in this, we see the delicate balancing act in our system of government between law and liberty, once again.

    I am proud of the entrepreneurs who built the economy of this country ... one without which the economy of the world would collapse, overnight. No one sought such power. It was our liberty and law which provided the opportunity to rise above that which a person once was.

    I am proud of a country which came to the defense of millions of people in the 20th Century, including those of every continent. Twice, America rose to defend the liberties and lives of people in Europe, in two world wars. We didn't have to do this. We could have hid our heads in the sand and ignored Europe. Indeed, in the Second World War, we could have used all of our power against those who attacked us, the Japanese. But the blood of over two thousand Americans who died at Omaha Beach, in one horrible day, testify to the decision that our nation made. Yes, I am proud of that.

    I am proud of what I and millions of others did in Vietnam. I don't care what anyone says about the reasons why we were there. I know why I volunteered, and why I was there. This same spirit is alive and well in Iraq and Afghanistan, on this very day. Staying is difficult, but leaving is the wrong thing to do.

    I am proud of my country's history in space. I watched with millions of others , on a July day in 1969, when Americans stepped onto the face of the moon. I watched with bated breath, and very little sleep, when Apollo XIII faced the crisis that threatened the lives of three astronauts. I wept with pride, just the other day, as I watched Endeavor lift off the launchpad at Cape Canaveral, and rocket into space.

    Americans will finish the space station. Americans will go back to the moon. Americans will go to Mars. And Americans will be among those who, someday, will journey to the stars, Albert Einstein's objections aside.

    Yes, I am proud of my country, a nation of immigrants who forged the world's premiere power, and one that is based upon the twin pillars of liberty and law. And I will not decide to hate my country, because others do, and demand the same of me.

    In another time, a great Colossus was created that could be seen for miles into the Mediterranean Sea. Its purpose was to inspire awe and fear in all those who beheld it. The Colossus of Rhodes had one purpose. It said to those looking upon it, “Be afraid of us.”

    Graven on a tablet at the base of the pedestal holding our Statue of Liberty are these words, penned by Emma Lazarus:

    The New Colossus
    Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
    With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
    Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
    A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
    Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
    Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
    Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
    The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
    "Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
    With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


    To that, I say, “Amen”.

    You know, i read Oldgamers article in our staff forum, and i sighed. Its a sentiment I've heard so many times i'm absolutely sick of it... Can they not see the hypocrisy they spout, and how much the rest of us laugh at them every time they come out with it?

    America, the Land of Liberty? What a load of rubbish...
    We're talking about a country where racism isn't only rampant its common in certain states, where one of two major political parties stands on a platform of minority repression - and gets elected! A country where its ok to repress, exclude, demean, torture and ignore the rights of pretty much everyone so long as their not a white middle class (or better) American citizen. A country where constitutionally there is no official religion, but the whole country seems to be governed according to the wishes of right wing christian fanatics who are happy to uphold the separation of Church and State so long as the State does what the Church wants, and that Church is the Christian one (but don't worry, we've got Jews for the money stuff, as the TV show "The West Wing" once proclaimed).

    America's so called liberty seems to be incredibly limited, especially if you happen to be gay, black, latino, non-christian, and to an only marginally lesser extent, female.

    Take a look sometime at the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights, wonder why its not a legal international treaty... Take a look the European Unions Charter of Fundamental Freedoms, or the Councils of Europe's Convention on Human Rights, and try applying them to America, and see if America lives up to a part of the world where People actually are legally equal, equality is supreme, and while liberty may not have been totally achieved, is something actually strived for.

    Now don't get me wrong, America has made great leaps forward. There was a time when America regarded Negro's as only 3/5ths man, at least we're not back in that day and age.

    But America has so much more to do, and is in grave peril of backsliding from the accomplishments she has already made, and all the while Americans stand around and claim that theirs is a land of liberty... i'd laugh if it wasn't so sad.

    America, like Oldgamer says, is a truly beautiful country, with much to recommend it, and much its people and its history have to be applauded for. American people have plenty to be proud of, that's for certain, so why proclaim loudly for all the world to hear, the one thing you definately haven't got?

    Welcome to America, the Land of Liberty, Home of the Brave!*


    *Offer subject to religious status, terms and conditions apply, offer excludes gays, blacks, latinos, women, immigrants.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Helios 16 - American Liberty

    To that, I say, “Amen”.
    CHECK ME OUT ON YOUTUBE
    for Total War Tips, Tricks and Tutorials!


  3. #3

    Default Re: Helios 16 - American Liberty

    I genuinely will read this and give it the time and attention it deserves... but until then, may I ask, how many times does the word 'liberal' come up?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Helios 16 - American Liberty

    America, the Land of Liberty? What a load of rubbish...
    At least we elect our leaders.
    The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be used until they try and take it away.
    Staff Officer of Corporal_Hicks in the Legion of Rahl
    Commanding Katrina, Crimson Scythe, drak10687 and Leonidas the Lion

  5. #5
    Giorgos's Avatar Deus Ex Machina
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Larissa/Skiathos Hellas(Greece)
    Posts
    5,557

    Default Re: Helios 16 - American Liberty

    Quote Originally Posted by Sétanta View Post
    At least we elect our leaders.
    Yeah, and you have to choose among *vastly* different ideologies...just like the rest of the world...

    I agree with the Black Prince.
    Anybody can spout patriotic drivel about one's own country. Beeing a patriotic American is in no way different than beeing a patriotic Iraqi, or a patriotic Afghani. The last thing we need is for the whole of the forum to go "the patriot" on every "opposing" country and ideology, or even that forgotten value "common sense".


  6. #6
    Oldgamer's Avatar My President ...
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Illinois, and I DID obtain my concealed carry permit! I'm packin'!
    Posts
    7,520

    Default Re: Helios 16 - American Liberty

    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgos View Post
    Yeah, and you have to choose among *vastly* different ideologies...just like the rest of the world...

    I agree with the Black Prince.
    Anybody can spout patriotic drivel about one's own country. Beeing a patriotic American is in no way different than beeing a patriotic Iraqi, or a patriotic Afghani. The last thing we need is for the whole of the forum to go "the patriot" on every "opposing" country and ideology, or even that forgotten value "common sense".
    I often "spout", and I'm always patriotic, but drivel never comes out of my mouth ...

    I love my country, and I'm proud of its accomplishments. I've spent much of my life fighting for the liberty that we enjoy. That's it, concisely stated.

    tBP is a fellow who is totally dedicated to his lifestyle. That's all right. Only once have I yielded to the temptation to respond to one of his "Queer Concern" articles, and then, my response had to do with the notion of "hate crimes". I wrote that a person who commits a crime should be punished for the crime, if convicted (his "hatred" should bear no influence on the prosecution, except for establishing a motivation for the crime).

    Note that I disagree with homosexuals on practically everything, but I generally keep that to myself. I also disagree with Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, but publicly stating our differences accomplishes very little except stirring the pot, and causing anger and hurt feelings.

    So, my friend on the other side of the pond can rest assured that there is at least one American who has fought ... and very-nearly died ... for the liberty of which I spoke in my editorial. I don't like homosexualism, but I was willing to put my life on the line for the right to be want any person wants to be.

    By the way, to everyone else, you can always tell a argument that has run its course, when the word "nazi" appears ....

  7. #7

    Default Re: Helios 16 - American Liberty

    Quote Originally Posted by Sétanta View Post
    At least we elect our leaders.
    Like in 2000?

  8. #8
    Dayman's Avatar Romesick
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Philadephia, PA
    Posts
    12,431

    Default Re: Helios 16 - American Liberty

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    Like in 2000?
    the supreme court decided that US citizens could take a break in electing our president that year.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Helios 16 - American Liberty

    I think its great that someone is optimistic about his country and is proud of his country and its achievements.

    We have too many whiners who just hate everything about where they come from, they don't realise how good they've got it!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Helios 16 - American Liberty

    how many countries don't eect their leaders? [serious question, not sarcastic]
    CHECK ME OUT ON YOUTUBE
    for Total War Tips, Tricks and Tutorials!


  11. #11

    Default Re: Helios 16 - American Liberty

    Quote Originally Posted by the Black Prince
    Welcome to America, the Land of Liberty, Home of the Brave!*


    *Offer subject to religious status, terms and conditions apply, offer excludes gays, blacks, latinos, women, immigrants.
    Gays can get married, its up to the individual states to decide. I'm not entirely sure how blacks, latinos, women and immigrants arent free. Theyre free, the playing field may not be entirely level but show me a country where it is. Show me a country where racism and sexism don't exist.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Helios 16 - American Liberty

    @ferrets, not once, if i recall correctly...

    @Setanta, whats so great about an elected leader..? Though i seem to recall Gordon Brown being elected... this big event in 2005, what was it called now..? oh yes, The General Election

  13. #13

    Default Re: Helios 16 - American Liberty

    The New Colossus
    Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
    With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
    Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
    A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
    Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
    Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
    Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
    The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
    "Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
    With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
    The motto seems to have changed over time ...

  14. #14

    Default Re: Helios 16 - American Liberty

    At least we elect our leaders.
    at least the party who gets into office won the election in our country
    Sired by Niccolo Machiavelli
    Adopted by Ferrets54
    Father of secret basement children Boeing and Shyam Popat

  15. #15

    Default Re: Helios 16 - American Liberty

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary88 View Post
    at least the party who gets into office won the election in our country
    Well let's see. It is called separation of powers. The Republicans control the executive branch, because they were chosen to do so. The Democrats control the legislative branch, because they were chosen to do so.
    The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be used until they try and take it away.
    Staff Officer of Corporal_Hicks in the Legion of Rahl
    Commanding Katrina, Crimson Scythe, drak10687 and Leonidas the Lion

  16. #16

    Default Re: Helios 16 - American Liberty

    I have to sigh every time a self righteous brit wants to come down on a man expressing patriotic sentiment--- Do you not have pride in England? in the United Kingdom? despite its faults are you not proud to be a citizen of that land?-- do you not sport the union jack in your avatar? then to speak about oldgamers sense of patriotism seems a tad ridiculous.-- especially considering that britian is basically responsible for every war going on in the world right now, indirectly.( due to colonialism and the old british empire)

    perhaps think about yourself more, and less about oldgamer prince.
    Last edited by Chaigidel; August 15, 2007 at 01:59 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Helios 16 - American Liberty

    That does it, KILL THE REDCOATS!

    for the republic!

  18. #18

    Default Re: Helios 16 - American Liberty

    of course i'm proud of Britain.... but i don't go round lauding her faults to the world as if they too were something to be proud of. britain has problems, the one of the moment being our culture of alcoholism and binge drinking, but thats not something we're proud of.

    I'm not saying oldgamer shouldn't be proud, or patriotic. Indeed, my OP states that there is much Americans have to be proud of, and there is

  19. #19

    Default Re: Helios 16 - American Liberty

    Quote Originally Posted by the Black Prince View Post
    the one of the moment being our culture of alcoholism and binge drinking, but thats not something we're proud of.
    WHAT!?

    Thats our national pastime.

  20. #20
    Dayman's Avatar Romesick
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Philadephia, PA
    Posts
    12,431

    Default Re: Helios 16 - American Liberty

    I have trouble with a few of these paragraphs.

    This country was built by hard-working, hard-fisted, straight-shooting, God-fearing people who escaped the numberless tyrannies and castes of Europe, and carved out an empire of freedom in the wilderness that was America. When Europe objected, they declared themselves to be free, and put their lives on the line, literally, to secure that liberty.
    If this is referring the the people during the Revolution, then they were all, for the most part, Brits. And "Europe" didn't object, the U.K. did. And not every revolutionary was some workaholic, brunt Christian, as suggested by said paragraph.


    I have trouble with the writer's depiction of Lincoln

    In Ottawa, Illinois, is Washington Park, which was the site of the first debate between Abraham Lincoln and Stephen Douglas, in 1858. Lincoln stated flatly that there was no difference in the humanity of “negroes” and white men, and that the slaves should be free.
    While he was against slavery, he wasn't for equality. In another debate Lincoln also said,

    I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And in as much as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race,

    and

    I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people ... I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied every thing. I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. My understanding is that I can just let her alone.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •