Great blow on the mongols

[Xenomorph]

I was wondering how i would get some mongol territory to weaken them a bit, and there are so many armies around, i was almost cut in my way everywhere. So i tried something and it just worked out amazingly

the rebels were holding antioch, and the mongols aleppo. there was a full army in aleppo, with an extra full army as reinforcements, and an army laying siege to antioch.
how they fell:
i moved 2 full armies to antioch, under siege by the mongols, one to lay siege to damascus, and left one in standby by the shore. being overwhelmed in antioch, they broke the siege and moved both armies to damascus for the rescue, so i moved my extra army and attacked aleppo, which didnt have any reinforcements anymore, and took it. fierce one, their army was almost missile units, with the exception of 2 light cavalries.
then i took antioch, with only minor scratches. 2 in a row.

i then lifted the siege to damascus and moved my army to the north, and they sent one army to lay siege in aleppo, which i had no time to reinforce; i guess i was not expecting such result, when i only tried to kill some units and ended up like this:

first thing i did was dragging that 3 men bombard for some shots: first shot killed the enemy general
after wasted all cannon ammo, brought my remaining 30 camel gunners outside for some luring, and oh, they alone almost wiped 2 units of archer cavalry they absolutely rock. wish i had them sooner. things were looking so good. then i brought out the crossbow cavalry, and they fell like little birds; the crossbows in the walls wiped them all. when i last charged my heavy infantry towards their 4 full units os spearmen, they instantly routed the results speak for themselves.
still, facing them in the open is suicide... and the best trick to beat them in siege is being dirty and leaving a unit close to a wall, and let them waste their ammo. then destroy the towers, punch some holes in the wall, climb on it and shoot them all. if maintaining siege to get some ladders or towers they always seem to bring reinforcements...
but no, theyre not invincible at all.

[Kracker Jack'D]

that was some good generaling. but you CAN face them in the open. but only with england. i've done it many of time. what you need is about 8 units of retinue longbowmen. at least 4 calvery. 4 gunmen. and 2 cannon. you line your bowmen a few feet in your arty and gunmen and place spikes. whe the battle starts you hurry up and move your bowmen behind guns. the mongols will do one of two things if they are full stacked. 1: they'll rush right into your spikes. or 2: advance slowly at the walk so they don't die on the spikes, if they do that they with get overwelmed by missile fire sure enough.

[Xenomorph]

cant wait to try that. for now i managed to recruit one unit of elephant artillery, and that thingy has some anti-inf serious firepower. and with the adding of camel gunners, their cav advantage is seriously reduced . adding to that, a couple rocket launcher volleys onto their incoming cav has a chance of making them rout on contact with my line.
atm they only have one castle and one city left, and are severely crippled, even if theres still a good number of armies wondering around. using guerilla tactics (go in, kill some, retreat) with mercenary archer cav weakened those armies, tho, as i cant afford to loose too many troops if i want to be prepared for their offmap reinforcements. mongol AI proven to be the best, most agressive of all factions, with those fully experienced units. i saw them killing most men of one of my heavy cav units a few times, with 3 volleys of arrows , when i tried to run them over through a hole in the wall during a siege.

they only have 2 settlements left now, and you can see the number of armies still available. even if they blocked my way to edessa, that left baghdad unprotected , and if they reinforce it with any of those armies, edessa will be easier to take. my armies you see to the north are one attack army (the one a bit to the south, one full stack of spearmen and h. inf, one full stack on artillery (mostly bombards, 2 rock.l. and a couple ballistas, one full of cav and arch cav, one full crossbows. if they attack, its a battle i cant control, so i hope the ai is nice to me . i just hope they move that reinforcement from edessa, so i can flank and attack edessa with my stack in aleppo; that would be beautiful. i have 2 ships completely full of fresh gunners and camel gunners arriving in antioch in 1 turn, and some veteran armies will arrive from the northern campaign soon.
to the south, the egyptians dont offer any resistance, its like taking candy from a baby. they became mongolian vassals and have no military power, the mongolians wont help them, and theres a horde of herectics plaguing the region, they just keep coming.
i suppose the time frame may be a bit too delayed in this mod (i know that settlement growing is slower), or i did a lightning campaign: theres no better artillery then great bombards, no ships better then lanternas, and the only cities where i can recruit gunners are so far away (the ones closer are underdeveloped) that i have to disband the whole unit if it suffers casualties. if i was fully developed by now, facing the mongols would be a completely different issue.
i havent tried any other yet, but i recommend the Portvcale v3 mod for those who have no rush to conquer. the year is 1285, turn 143, holding 109 cities, turns remaining 245, and within no more then 10 turns, the world will be mine. i was responsible for the extermination of all other factions

[Monsieur Alphonse]

@Kracker Jack

There are many ways to beat them in the open:
With the Turks. Their janissary archers have the stake ability. Or with a heavy cavalry army (half HAs and half Quapukulu / generals). With Egypt you can do a cavalry army. Actually most factions have the ability to beat them in the open.

@Xenomorph

With the Moors you should make use of the Africa corps. Half a stack of camel gunners supported by heavy cavalry will be unstoppable. Use the camel gunners to wipe out the Mongol HAs and weaken their cavalry. Charge the Mongol infantry with your heavy cavalry.

[Kracker Jack'D]

@Kracker Jack

There are many ways to beat them in the open:
With the Turks. Their janissary archers have the stake ability. Or with a heavy cavalry army (half HAs and half Quapukulu / generals). With Egypt you can do a cavalry army. Actually most factions have the ability to beat them in the open.

@Xenomorph

With the Moors you should make use of the Africa corps. Half a stack of camel gunners supported by heavy cavalry will be unstoppable. Use the camel gunners to wipe out the Mongol HAs and weaken their cavalry. Charge the Mongol infantry with your heavy cavalry.

i'm quite sure any faction can beat them in the open. i've done it with others. but the tactic i use with england allows low casualties to my side which i can then go on to fight another stack or siege.
havn't used the turks yet though. have to give your method a shot w/ them

[Gabriel A]

Own the entire map almost and still can't face the Mongols in the open.

Just build giant stacks and auto-calc.

[Xenomorph]

Own the entire map almost and still can't face the Mongols in the open.

Just build giant stacks and auto-calc.

i had to do that at the end. it would be impossible to fight batlles of such magnitude.
somehow it seems that a mix of strong melee units to act as decoy and lots of powerful heavy cavalry seem to work. who can win the mongols without casualties anyway?

[magicmann]

i need help

can an expierenced player please help me?

someone i need advice contact magicmann

[Saibot]

I hate the Mongols, because they can take each city they want. I was playing as egypt and they besieged Jerusalem. I had 5 Naffatun units in there + 11 Tabardariyya units and a 7 star general. But they just besieged it with one full stack army + 4 reinforcing full stack armies. I killed a lot of them but once their rams reach the gates you're doomed.

[gogis]

Mongols are really overrated. Only thing, they have - it's generals and experience.
Their forces - russian army replica, with same units, alsmost all archers.

Playing for Egypt, i waited them with great expectations, but result was total dissapointment, they took with ligting speed Antioch, Aleppo and Damascus (check screenies of OP) wiping defenders with ease, but after 10-15 turns there was no Golden Horde, whatsoever.

While i was somewhat thrilled by them after all that rumors and forum posts, infact, they AI, and it's and answer for everything.

Their first loss was, when they sieged my Antioch with my 4 star general. My army was just militia and 4 tabardariya units, which that city just started to produce. No elite armies, nor any upgrades.

They besieged me with 3 full stacks. Of course they won. But what was a price? I used my general to fuss alot about thier ram infantry, to prolonge thier march to my gates, granted, i lost most troops in stack, but it gave time to burn first ram to my archers and towers. They lost about 20% of army (of 3 stacks!) just before they put second ram to my gates.

In final result they lost 700 men, which is great result, if you know, that one full army of mongols consist of ~850.
So, in cost of full militia stack i wiped one full army AND one 10 star general, which is was faction leader.

Second nail in mongol coffin was a "luring bridge". One of my elite troops army with my best general left Byzantie field to aid empire. Army consisted of tabardariyas, couple of dismounted bla-bla spearmen, two mamluk archers, 2 naffa, and 4 desert archers. Most had atleast 1 silver chevron.

It's wasnt even full army, i reduced rows to force them eat my lure.
In one turn they wiped 3.5 armies of mongols (well, you know how bridge fight works)
First two battles was classic, with full stack at another side of bridge.
They lost 2 generals. Which was great.
Third battle was - full army at my back, and about 4-5 stacks at another side.
I just rushed thru bridge, wiped that little reinforcment. No general - easy win.
Then standard fight vs full army WITHOUT general. It's was great help, because i had many holes in my ranks.

And last nail was Damascus battle, where i fought with my second "elite" army versus full mongolian with general and i had 2 not full stacks of pure militia reinforcement on AI guidance. I was unable to autoreslove that battle, even if i had 2500+ men and they just 850, it's was even and autoresloving was disastrous defeat, so i went in battle with my rookie 3 star General and in really tough and tricky battle (i had severe routing problems) i won.
I packed my infantry in one tough formation and went to zone, where they kept their general and heavy lancers.
I dont really care their archery, archery is heavily overrated in general, because they can't kill fast, they just annoy.
Primary target is always general and heavy cavalry units, so my plan was simple and brutal, i send my infantry to their archery infantry, that was nearby their heavy cavalry and general fist.
Accurately i send my naffatunians to back of my forces and started slowly aiding, waiting patiently to their lancers advance. They did, i helped with my cavalry to stuck them and then slaughtered with napalm. In that second their general charged to my general, but i was ready, i dropped their infantry entirely and send all my troops, even mamluk archers in melee to general. That bugger fighted tremendously, slaughtered and routed several spearmen units, wiped my light lancers, but finally died. That was a key kill and rest was a plain and simple.

When i am saying, that i had "elite" army, it's not really meant elite. I still had not high end infantry and cavalry, nor any real experience. I builded economy and such and had just 3 castles and like 12 cities.

But even with that "paper" army, that route, once enemy make one step forward from another side of continent, you CAN face mongols in open field.
I have stainless steel mod, and it have improved battle AI, mongolians very carefully hide their generals, and that generals is pure beasts, but mongolians have general weaknesses. They have no heavy infantry. Their morale relies on general. Bring more and better ARMORED (armor+shield = anti arrows) infantry. Kill general. Profit.

[humvee2800]

Is russia Pretty much ****ed when the mongols come?

Any way for Russia to defend itself..?

[Saibot]

I think the russians will be in trouble since they don't have good anti-cavalry units. But I think you should rely on beating them in the open with the russians. The russians cavalry is (in my eyes) better then the mongol cavalry. I always try to lure their cavalry with some cheap, weak infantry units. While your infantry gets owned harrass the mongol army with Dvors or other good horse archers. Then circle your heavy cavalry (Tsars guard preferably) to their flank and crush them. After this their next stack will attack you and own you