Proposal: Merge Discussion and Debate / Games, Activities, and Chat

[Rob_the_Celt]

These two sections are basically describing the same thing, and anything that is under one could be put under the other without being out of place. I feel it would be faster and easier for more people who use the common community to move between the different subforums if these were merged. Is there any other reason to have it like it is other than to avoid having so many topics under one section?

[Arakorn]

Support.

[Silver Guard]

No, no, no no no no!
theres a big difference between the two, on one side is casual chat, on the other reasoned debate. I visit all of the DD reguarily, I only ever visit the GAC to make sigs, which isn't often. Completely against, combining the two would be a bad move.

[Serious Spamurai]

I can't believe people are suggesting this, they don't need to be merged, it's no extra effort to scroll down about 150px. On the other hand, how is the forum looking like this:



Going to affect anything, how is it going to be a bad move?

[Elrond]

The DD is for intelluctual debate -the GAC is tech stuff, games and lighter discussion - it is a clear difference - tech stuff can be very complicated but it is a different sort of complicated to threads in the DD - games, sport and off topic discussion may be occasionaly need a high level of skill to be involved in but it usally doesnt.

I am not trying to insult people who post there (I regurly do) but I am saying that the two sections are differnt. Its very unusal to have more than 6 or 7 forums in any section on any forum and I think that the current split is a good one.

[Thanatos]

Completely support.

[Banned]

When will the Curia stop proposing changes? And for how long has the present structure been assayed to conclude its ineptitude?

[Rob_the_Celt]

When will the Curia stop proposing changes? And for how long has the present structure been assayed to conclude its ineptitude?

Long enough.

No, no, no no no no!
theres a big difference between the two, on one side is casual chat, on the other reasoned debate. I visit all of the DD reguarily, I only ever visit the GAC to make sigs, which isn't often. Completely against, combining the two would be a bad move.

The DD is for intelluctual debate -the GAC is tech stuff, games and lighter discussion - it is a clear difference - tech stuff can be very complicated but it is a different sort of complicated to threads in the DD - games, sport and off topic discussion may be occasionaly need a high level of skill to be involved in but it usally doesnt.

I am not trying to insult people who post there (I regurly do) but I am saying that the two sections are differnt. Its very unusal to have more than 6 or 7 forums in any section on any forum and I think that the current split is a good one.

I think I see the reasoning behind why ye think that, but I dont see how it could be a bad thing to merge them. There's a reason to keep say the RTW and M2TW mods separate, they would appeal to different people who need to be easily able to differenciate between them, but the line between these 2 sections isn't as clear cut. Alot of intellectual debate goes on in the GAC and I've seen more than a few lighter discussions in the DD!
I would say that merging the 2 into one section doesn't change any of the content in any if the subforums. They would still serve their purpose but would be easier to navigate between in my opinion and the content matter would be seen by more people.
If you rarely go to the GAC, spending most of your time in the DD and they were merged you might see a few more threads you would post in, the same goes for someone who spends most of their time in the GAC. People who post in both, myself included, would find having them merged to be alot easier to move between, as it is its plain annoying to have to go back to the index to get into the other section. Alot of people who are more or less exclusive to one or the other would start posting in both, which can only be a good thing. Both sets of forums would benefit from it.

I can't believe people are suggesting this, they don't need to be merged, it's no extra effort to scroll down about 150px. On the other hand, how is the forum looking like this:



Going to affect anything, how is it going to be a bad move?

The only logical reason that seems to be put forward for not merging them is that there will be too many subforums under one section and it won't be obvious which forums are for debate, etc, but that doesn't look overly large to me!
The description under each subforum says more about its contents than the section names they are under will ever convey as well.

[Silver Guard]

I think I see the reasoning behind why ye think that, but I dont see how it could be a bad thing to merge them. There's a reason to keep say the RTW and M2TW mods separate, they would appeal to different people who need to be easily able to differenciate between them, but the line between these 2 sections isn't as clear cut. Alot of intellectual debate goes on in the GAC and I've seen more than a few lighter discussions in the DD!

Actualy it isn't, I presently rely on RTW modding tutorials for M2TW (as there are not enough yet) etc. The difference between DD and GAC is enough that the two should be kept separate to aid new users and make things generally easy, or do you prefer giving people a challenge in board browsing?

I would say that merging the 2 into one section doesn't change any of the content in any if the subforums. They would still serve their purpose but would be easier to navigate between in my opinion and the content matter would be seen by more people.

Not at all, it makes it far harder to navigate, as it is i can see the forums im interested in very easily, the two placed together just makes it a pain.

If you rarely go to the GAC, spending most of your time in the DD and they were merged you might see a few more threads you would post in, the same goes for someone who spends most of their time in the GAC.

Actualy no, I wouldnt, I have nothing to contribute in the circus maximus or basement, I know very little about sport and the TD is a spam house, so I couldn't give a damn about the place. The two being merged would just make things irritating, not make me post more in different forums.

People who post in both, myself included, would find having them merged to be alot easier to move between, as it is its plain annoying to have to go back to the index to get into the other section. Alot of people who are more or less exclusive to one or the other would start posting in both, which can only be a good thing. Both sets of forums would benefit from it.

Wait... to get back to the index rather then back to the over-forum is not difficult... it requires pressing a different button... and no, people exclusive to one would not post in two, changing the forum layout does not magically change a person's interests, its not phycho-therapy. And personally I could do without some of the TD posters in the ethos and politics.

[Banned]

Long enough.

That surely isn't the kind of sagacious answer I was expecting.

I don't see any point in having ten sub-forums in a single section. The two categories make more sense in their current solitary state, as they are for utterly dissimilar subjects.

I oppose this proposal.

[Rob_the_Celt]

Actualy it isn't, I presently rely on RTW modding tutorials for M2TW (as there are not enough yet) etc. The difference between DD and GAC is enough that the two should be kept separate to aid new users and make things generally easy, or do you prefer giving people a challenge in board browsing?

I was reffering to the hosted mods, but anyway. Using RTW modding techniques to mod M2TW wouldn't be a great reason to merge those threads, but I do think that these could be merged. I don't see how it would be a challenge to new users to navigate then if they were merged. In fact I'd think the opposite, it could potentially be confusing to see the amount of sections available and they may not encounter one or the other for a while. How long did it take some people to find the Mafia game after it was moved, they would be experienced users familiar with the site!

Not at all, it makes it far harder to navigate, as it is i can see the forums im interested in very easily, the two placed together just makes it a pain.

The forums you are interested would be the forums at the top going by how they would potentially be merged above, it would make no difference to how you navigate to them as they would be in the same place with a few more forums below them.

Actualy no, I wouldnt, I have nothing to contribute in the circus maximus or basement, I know very little about sport and the TD is a spam house, so I couldn't give a damn about the place. The two being merged would just make things irritating, not make me post more in different forums.

Thats you, 1 person. Can the same be said for all users here? The TD is a spamhouse, but the political mudpit has an element of that too, if they're in the same section where do you think the spams number 1 destination will be?

Wait... to get back to the index rather then back to the over-forum is not difficult... it requires pressing a different button... and no, people exclusive to one would not post in two, changing the forum layout does not magically change a person's interests, its not phycho-therapy. And personally I could do without some of the TD posters in the ethos and politics.

What makes you so sure that every TD poster will go to those forums you mentioned? Like you said, you wouldn't go to their threads if they were merged so why would they be any different? There is bound to be a topic at some time that would interest people from one side or the other that would cause them to at least investigate it, if not post a reply. Does that have any chance of happening with the current setup?

That surely isn't the kind of sagacious answer I was expecting.

I don't see any point in having ten sub-forums in a single section. The two categories make more sense in their current solitary state, as they are for utterly dissimilar subjects.

I oppose this proposal.

What does sagacious mean?
Thats the only reason I can see as to why they are separate, having so many subforums in one section. It is a valid point but I don't see it as an issue however. The subjects in the DD are all completely dissimilar to each other, ethos, the mudpit and the athenaeum for example all have completely different content that is hardly relate. If you dropped the basement into the DD would it look out of place in relation to the subforums already there? Or if the ethos was put into the GAC?

[Silver Guard]

I was reffering to the hosted mods, but anyway. Using RTW modding techniques to mod M2TW wouldn't be a great reason to merge those threads, but I do think that these could be merged. I don't see how it would be a challenge to new users to navigate then if they were merged. In fact I'd think the opposite, it could potentially be confusing to see the amount of sections available and they may not encounter one or the other for a while. How long did it take some people to find the Mafia game after it was moved, they would be experienced users familiar with the site!

Its quite simple. Those interested in debate will see a section titled "Discussion and debate" those interested in games and chat will look under that section, even a dunce would understand that.

The forums you are interested would be the forums at the top going by how they would potentially be merged above, it would make no difference to how you navigate to them as they would be in the same place with a few more forums below them.

See above, the sectioning is useful, it helps people navigate, why would you remove a system which obviously works. No one, for example, puts any sporting threads in the discussion and debate forum, they don't even need to be moved. People can find what they're interested in more easily.

Thats you, 1 person. Can the same be said for all users here? The TD is a spamhouse, but the political mudpit has an element of that too, if they're in the same section where do you think the spams number 1 destination will be?

The TD... its the chat zone, so its where most people go to, you know, chat. Otherwise known to me as off topic, which in any other forum would be spam. I notice how you asking me for my opinion and asking whether I would do certain things, so I answered as myself... being not schizophrenic I am one person.

What makes you so sure that every TD poster will go to those forums you mentioned? Like you said, you wouldn't go to their threads if they were merged so why would they be any different? There is bound to be a topic at some time that would interest people from one side or the other that would cause them to at least investigate it, if not post a reply. Does that have any chance of happening with the current setup?

Yes... unless they're mentally impaired or find physical difficulty in scrolling they can quite easily move from one section to the other... as I remember it was you who suggested they would do, and I'm saying that thats not something I care about, and doubt many do.

[Banned]

The forums are arranged in such a way that topics pertaining to similar type of discussion are arranged together. Let's say, ethos, mores et monastica falls under the debate category as does political mudpit because both these areas involve remorseless argumentation. While on the other hand, Basement is a questioning place where people put their queries related to computers and similar stuff. Their conjunction into one single category is nonsensical, in my honest opinion.

[Rob_the_Celt]

I would agree that the general attitude in each section follows that general trend, but the sports forum has plenty of arguments over who is the best player, best team, etc for a given sport, the games one is the same for game systems as well as games, types of games, etc.
The VV could be seen as a place where people put their queries related to history, with the exception of the never ending "what if" threads that always turn into an argument. Basically in a given context they could all fit nicely under the other sections name, they're all discussion and chats at the end of it all.
Every subforum in each has "discuss" in the description as its all non TW related stuff! Those sections are basically the common community too, which is why I think they might be more convenient to use under one section. Would the type of threads that are currently in the subforums change if these sections were merged? Probably not. Going by the layout up there somewhere there probably wouldn't be too many subforums in the section to make it confusing either.

[Thanatos]

What I just don't understand is why we can't just have it the way it was before - You have the Themia Devia, and everything else as subcategories within it.

Before, I could teleport with ease. Now, I have to do a bunch of tedious scrolling. It gets tiring, let me tell you!

[Silver Guard]

Well lets take this further, we can have one section called "TW", one called "CC" and the last called "Admin and support". We then make it very easy to navigate for the lazy and physically impaired. Or, we can leave out sectioning completely, people will still be able to know where to go right?

[Thanatos]

Don't be like that.

I'm not lazy, it's just that having to keep scrolling eventually gets to be a big pain in the butt.

[Rob_the_Celt]

Don't be like that.

I'm not lazy, it's just that having to keep scrolling eventually gets to be a big pain in the butt.

My sentiments exactly, personally it detracts from my experiences on this site having to continuously scroll to move between 2 subforums that could quite easily be accommodated in the same section with no significant issues, as it used to be. The overall efficiency of the CC could only benefit from merging these!

[Silver Guard]

But under the same logic please explain why the more extreme steps outlined in my post are bad ideas? If you can figure it out you have produced the argument against your own bill.

[Rob_the_Celt]

That kind of is the way that the site is structured, so I don't see your point! You've got Administrative Forums, separate sections for M2TW and TW:E topics in their own sections which makes sense (people find all information relevant to the game they play), the modding community section is basically a CC for modders while the CC for non-TW topics is split into two sections for no apparent reason other than there's too many topics for 1 section (is there?)!

By your logic tell to me why we shouldn't split the M2TW section in two; with something akin to GAC having "Medieval II: Total War General Discussion" and "Medieval II: Total War Technical Help" in one section with "Hosted Modifications", "Mod Threads" and "Mod Workshop" (by your definition basically DD) in another section? The same goes for TW:E or the Modding community sections?