Conscripted Parliament

**Muagan_ra** · August 11, 2007, 07:08 PM

Been having a wee think today - imagine that - but just suppose that the representatives in local governments, national governments, and other organs of state where randomly "conscripted" in the way that a Jury is.

You have a pretty random selection of every eligible citizen being liable to get the call to serve - some compensatory arrangment made with their employers, sort of liking taking leave from your job. Terms of two years, one time only.

I'm thinking that the criteria to be 'eligible' couldn't really be universal emancipation - you would need to be nominated and 'elected' by small local communties, so that a region would have a vast pool of potential conscriptees of which only a handfull would be called. I'm thinking that this way, a small community could provide a garrantee of good character, good education - so that you could bypass problems like vested interests, political parties, corruption, if all these people had to gain the trust of small pockets of people who would be able to bring their common sense to bear.

It sounds a bit crazy, and I'm not at this point advocating such a system, but I'm just giving a hypothetical in the hope of some resonse. Would it work at all, or just as well as anything else on offer? Maybe it would work much better in local government than it would on a national level?

**Justice and Mercy** · August 11, 2007, 08:13 PM

Well, at first I was going to burn this thread in flames, but now that I think about it, I like it.

Maybe the idea of the "professional politician" is bad?

AS LONG AS the government is bound by a Constitution, of course.

**MaximiIian** · August 12, 2007, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by Justice and Mercy

Well, at first I was going to burn this thread in flames, but now that I think about it, I like it.

Maybe the idea of the "professional politician" is bad?

AS LONG AS the government is bound by a Constitution, of course.

It's a good idea, in theory.

The only problem is, inexperienced and uneducated people. There's lots of them.
But, the system could work. If schools made Civics a required course, and made sure it was well-taught, they'd at least have a modicum of knowledge in how to run an economy or local government.

**Muagan_ra** · August 12, 2007, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by MaximiIian

It's a good idea, in theory.

The only problem is, inexperienced and uneducated people. There's lots of them.

Well, yes, that's why I floated the idea of having a large roster of people "elected" to eligibility, from very small communities (I'm talking townships, suburbs, universities, colleges). I think that, assuming people are going to seek out of the best candidates, you could garrantee some kind of expertise - people aren't going to vote for the village idiot. The 'random' selection would be from this vast pool of elected people. The cashier at the local supermarket could well be elected, if he or she was seen to have a good character, or had alot of respect.

Besides, I don't think the inexperience problem would be any worse than in the status quo - nepotism and party politics control everything as it is. Democratically, it would work - reflect well on the state of the nation, if it has a bad education system it won't have alot of stellar leaders, and that's incentive to make reforms.

NB Although, I'm wondering now if this system might create an even more powerful civil service. If politicians where only temporary, the professional civil service wouldn't be transparent or even accountable.

**Chaigidel** · August 11, 2007, 08:17 PM

I have professed this before I think it would be a solution to all corruption

plus include the fact that a politician can own nor transfer any funds or property for the duration of his service, nor can he communicate with friends or family to avoid nepotism--it should be something done with a sense of duty rather than a greed for power.

this is a great Idea that must be taken to the extreme, our politicians must be made to live entirely away from the temptations of money and power, yet still be open to the voice of the people.

**Justice and Mercy** · August 11, 2007, 08:24 PM

However, I don't think it should be forced.

There's gotta be some way around it being forced.

**Medicus** · August 12, 2007, 01:24 AM

I don't think it'd work.

What kind of people would get conscripted?

The wealthy, the educated, the middle and upper class.

Essentially the people in power already.

**Justice and Mercy** · August 12, 2007, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by Bernard L Black

I don't think it'd work.

What kind of people would get conscripted?

The wealthy, the educated, the middle and upper class.

Essentially the people in power already.

Umm...

What?

The masses would get conscripted. Note that it's random...

**Medicus** · August 12, 2007, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by Justice and Mercy

Umm...

What?

The masses would get conscripted. Note that it's random...

So you mean Johnny K-Mart's gonna run the country?

Be great to see a supermarket checkout women in her 30's deciding whether or not to raise interest rates.

Seriously, there's a reason most politicians are doctors, lawyers, etc. They've got to have the brains to get the job done. It's not perfect, but it's all we have, next to instituting a dictatorship.

**Justice and Mercy** · August 12, 2007, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by Bernard L Black

So you mean Johnny K-Mart's gonna run the country?

No. A whole bunch of Johhny K-Marts are gonna run one part of the government.

They'd be just as smart as the *******s we have now, except they'd be more honest.

Be great to see a supermarket checkout women in her 30's deciding whether or not to raise interest rates.

Err... again... I'd only support it if it was within the bounds of libertarianism.

Seriously, there's a reason most politicians are doctors, lawyers, etc. They've got to have the brains to get the job done. It's not perfect, but it's all we have, next to instituting a dictatorship.

No... you'll note that pretty much everyone except me is retarded.

Seriously guys. I should be king. Really.

**RusskiSoldat** · August 12, 2007, 04:09 AM

The congress is already such a model of efficiency, staffing it with people who are most likely apathetic and include a fair share of extremists can only make it better.

**Justice and Mercy** · August 12, 2007, 04:15 AM

Originally Posted by RusskiSoldat

The congress is already such a model of efficiency, staffing it with people who are most likely apathetic and include a fair share of extremists can only make it better.

Give them lots of publicity.

Tons.

**RusskiSoldat** · August 12, 2007, 05:11 AM

How will that help in any way?
If you think publicity somehow makes people more competent, then our governments would all be the models of efficiency.

**Justice and Mercy** · August 12, 2007, 05:13 AM

Originally Posted by RusskiSoldat

How will that help in any way?
If you think publicity somehow makes people more competent, then our governments would all be the models of efficiency.

It would make them less apathetic...

**Tiwaz** · August 12, 2007, 08:42 AM

Well, while it might sound nice at first...

It would still suck.
If it was made totally random out of whole population it would bring too many idiots on board. It's why whole idea of jury being around to decide upon my guilt on some matter makes me shake my head. (for record, no juries here though)

If people were elected from small communities... We would still have same guys trying to get in power. They would lie, bribe and sweettalk their way into position of representation in their community and hope they score the big one and get in power.

**~~removeduser_487563287433~~** · August 12, 2007, 12:08 PM

The OP is essentially describing the Athenian democratic system. The council of Athens, which wasn't the equivelent to a modern Parliament but **** it, was selected entirely by lot.

**Muagan_ra** · August 12, 2007, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by Ferrets54

The OP is essentially describing the Athenian democratic system.

What could possibly be at fault in a system where you bind random people in fishing ropes, and drag them to the town square to be the government?

Your point not withstanding, I didn't actually have that in mind. I think mine is a bit different from the Athenian model.

**Mathius** · August 13, 2007, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Muagan_ra

What could possibly be at fault in a system where you bind random people in fishing ropes, and drag them to the town square

Most UK politicians pay £200 an hour in Bayswater to be treated like that.

We discussed this at work today. Professional politicians are the bane of modern democracy but we had two world wars where they were all gifted amateurs so can't see it being any better.

**~~removeduser_487563287433~~** · August 13, 2007, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Muagan_ra

What could possibly be at fault in a system where you bind random people in fishing ropes, and drag them to the town square to be the government?

Your point not withstanding, I didn't actually have that in mind. I think mine is a bit different from the Athenian model.

You're thinking of the Ekklesia, I'm talking about the Boule.

**Radulf Heimiric** · August 13, 2007, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Muagan_ra

You have a pretty random selection of every eligible citizen being liable to get the call to serve ... Terms of two years, one time only.

This system would be short on both consistency and accountability.

Consistency is vital in politics. Without it you have chaos, with changes being reverted almost as soon as they are put in place. Lengthening the suggested terms to 4 or 5 years would go a long way towards adding consistency.

The suggestion also results in a permanently hung parliament (British term, I don't know how other countries would describe it). Significantly reducing the number of politicians would help to rectify the inertia this creates.

The main problem though is accountability. Democracy creates accountability because you must please the voters to get re-elected. In the proposed system there is no way to provide this. There are no simple modifications which can be made to the suggestion either. This means that you have to rely on the randomly selected people trying to help the country. Some may, but expecting them all to do so is ridiculous. Because of this, the system would create all the problems portrayed in Animal Farm.