Fighting the Romans.

[removeduser_4563362]

I was wondering is there any right way to fight the Romans? I mean it’s just a struggle; every fight with the Romans leaves me griping my chair. With out Poeni infantry I’m left wondering what I’m going to do when I fight the Romans.

[Rasui Runihura]

For some reason the faction that has Poeni infantry eludes me. What faction are you?

Ok, I want to say that's Carthage... It's weird, unit names often get mixed up in my head. Anyway, Roman armies center around infantry. My usual strategy is simply to send my elephants charging through their battle lines and then have my cavalry charge the infantry, causing a mass rout easilly. Just keep making elephants in Carthage (and Thapsus when you can) and send them to where you need them.

[Prince_of_Macedon]

For some reason the faction that has Poeni infantry eludes me. What faction are you?

That's Carthage.

Alexander? Wasn't it Hannibal?

Alexander came before Hannibal.

[Subrosa Florens]

Elephants work best against cavalry (if you look in export_descr_unit.txt you will see that cavalry units have a -8 modifier vs. elephants, while elephants also receive a +4 bonus versus horse) so it is best to use them to destroy your enemy's horse, while you pin their infantry with your own foot-sloggers. Then use your elephants and horse to swing around behind their now-exposed flanks and hit their infantry in the rear. This basic tactic is known as the hammer and anvil.

If you do not have decent infantry yet then you need to fight them nomad-style. Leave your useless Iberian infantry at home, except your missile troops. Use your cavalry to bait individual Roman units out of their formation, let them chase you to tire them out. Lead them past your slingers and javelineers so they can soften up the Romans. Now with them tired and weakened, swarm upon them with all your cavalry. Rinse and repeat with every unit until their army is destroyed. It requires a lot of patience and micro-management, but you can defeat vastly superiour armies this way.

[Archer of Sparta]

Use the Phalanx units. (I think there's more than one not sure). And get them with cavs and eles from behind.

[Nikephoros II Phokas]

the best strategy for fighting against the Romans is the basic hammer and anvil perfected by Alexander. The short, stabbing sword is no match for a wall of spears in phalanx, unless you allow them to attack your flanks. While their front line is engaged you can use archers to thin out the ranks while you smash your cavalry/elephants into their rear and flanks. The Romans never produce any good horsemen, but if they have enough allied cavalry the elephants should take care of them. Also never a bad idea to ambush the general if a decent opportunity presents itself as the Roman back line is usually the slower triarii and pricipes who may not be able to respond quickly enough but it's risky.

[Archer of Sparta]

Alexander? Wasn't it Hannibal?

[Kratos]

Pin them down with phalanxes, charge along their infantry line with elephants and hit them in the back with your cavalry.

[dre123]

kill them with missiles slings, archers etc I say

[Rasui Runihura]

You can't GET phalanxes early in the campaign, you know. That's why I just use my elephants to break apart their infantry then rout them with cavalry. I don't even use infantry except for the occasional merc I hire during a seige. Usually I can start getting the phalanxes about the same time I conquer the Romans, and that's when I change my strategy.

[Lord Romanus III]

For defensive battles, make a half-ring with your libyans and iberians. If you invade Italy, grab Samnites. Always get mercenaries for missile support. Pin them with you half-circle and flank with elephants and cavalry. keep your genral there to rally troops. I normally wait for the enemies lkine to get "winded" before flanking though, so I get a much better result.

Cordially, Lord Romanus III

[removeduser_4563362]

Plz keep in mind that I’m playing the vanilla version.

[Prince_of_Macedon]

Are you playing Campaign or Multiplayer?

If you're doing Multiplayer, then Elephants are a great way to tear apart Roman infantry. However, you have to be very, very careful when using them. Ideally, you want to keep Rome's archers pinned down (or least busy) before you order your elephants to do their thing. Also, the elephant charge should be pulled off in such a way that they can knock down the Roman infantry line in 1-2 passes. After that, Dumbo will fall victim to fatigue.

Be ready to kill your elephants the second they run amok (assuming your troops are in the vicinity which they should).

[removeduser_4563362]

I use Libyan spearmen as the front line and engage the enemy line. Don’t use Iberian infantry; they won’t have the defense to hold off the Romans. Now that you have there front line engaged
Use your superior numbers in Calvary to wipe out there on. Then get behind them and sandwich them. Use your Skirmishers wisely and make good uses of them because they vastly lower the enemies moral. As for the elephants I try to conserve them.

[ostrich egg]

fighting the romans si rpetty tough what you want to do is kill em so bad beacuse if you dont they'll kill you

so bad

[removeduser_4563362]

Yeah, you see that’s going to be a problem since you can only get Poeni infantry after the 3rd level of advancement in a city.

I’m asking if there is a way to defeat the Romans without using Poeni infantry.

I just hope I can hold out until I get Poeni infantry.

[Whiskeyjack]

Yeah, you see that’s going to be a problem since you can only get Poeni infantry after the 3rd level of advancement in a city.

I’m asking if there is a way to defeat the Romans without using Poeni infantry.

Without poeni the best way is to use a small amount of libyans just to pin the romans, and use as much cavalry as you can afford(at least 6 units imo). You will need to be quick with the cav charges because even hastati totally outclass libyans so dont expect them to hold the line for very long. Leave the iberians at home and if you can afford elephants get them as the fear effect they provide makes routing the romans easy.

[Elrond]

I agree with the hammer and anvil tactic - use infantry to pin there army and hit them hard in the flanks with calvalry.

[Muagan_ra]

Ah yes - my favourite part of any Carthaginian game is having a show-down with the Roman factions (after that it's all pretty boring.)

I find that proper use of cavalry is absolutely vital to beating them. I've mentioned it before a few times, but I just love the Long Shield Cavalry - they're just brilliant all-round units, that you'll need to steamroll Equites, hunt down and overpower Roman Generals, and rout and destroy their infantry columns.

Iberian Infantry are a much maligned unit, but I'm actually pretty fond of them - if you put them in an army with a high ranking General, you'd be surprised at how long they can resist routing. They don't look like a lot, but they have no real weakness as such, so you shouldn't be afraid to engage the Hastati with them (you just need to be a bit clever with your line tactics.) You can bolster them with Libyan Spearmen when you have the oppertunity.

Your infantry will be able to give them a good fight while your cavalry rout out their generals, and then fall on their bloodied infantry. Best thing is, the Iberians will gain more and more experience as they fight these horrendous odds, and with a few chevron's become fantastic line-infantry during those protracted wars with Rome.

I've also had great ease in steamrolling the Romans with all-cavalry Carthaginian forces - it's great fun, but somehow isn't quite as satisfying. If you need results, it's a good way to go, but it's not really authentic.

[NobleNick]

HannibalOfCarthage, I assume you are playing vanilla 1.5 in campaign mode. There are several ways to prevail against the Romans.

Blitzkrieg works: I remember a "trade-off" Carthage game we played about 2 years ago. I believe the settings were H/H. The first player went straight for the Roman jugular, and they were soon gone. I have done the same thing playing as Gaul (VH/VH). Severous and I did the same in a two man trade-off game as Greece (H/H or VH/VH, I forget). We expanded in Sicily straight-off. Topple the Roman machine before it gets going. Never let them get to the Marius Reforms: If you manage your battles correctly (more on that later in this post), blitzkrieg works beautifully.

Use naval action. It is very cost effective, when you sink a 2-ship enemy fleet with your 4 ship fleet, and send a full Roman stack to Davy Jones' Locker. As an earlier poster said, this is especially effective against the Brutii; because if they are coming after you in Sicily, there is only one way they can come.

O.K., with all of that out of the way, here is the part you were waiting for: how to beat the Romans on land. Again, remember it is much easier to beat Hastati and even Principe, than it is to beat Post-reform troops. The various flavors of post-reform Cohort are king of the infantry. Only the spendy and limited availability Spartans are better on a unit-to-unit comparison.

1.) Use the strategic map for terrain advantage. Always try to make the enemy attack uphill. It shortens their ranged weapon range and effectiveness, induces fatigue, and units suffere negative combat modifiers when their opponents are uphill.

2.) Get attacked. The attacker must clear the field in order to win, whereas the defender need only hold the field. Thus the defender has the option to stand or run; but the attacker must always press the battle if he is to win. In addition to other benefits, this allows for the use of some dirty tricks as the defender.

3.) Dirty defender trick 1 --> Hide all units except the captain/general (assumes a mounted unit). Make the enemy chase the leader until the attackers are exhausted. Then engage with your fresh forces.

4.) Dirty defender trick 2 --> Hide all units except the captain/general. Make the enemy chase the leader until the attackers are strung out along an ambush point. Then engage with your fresh forces.

5.) Dirty defender trick 3 -->

I've also had great ease in steamrolling the Romans with all-cavalry Carthaginian forces - it's great fun, but somehow isn't quite as satisfying. If you need results, it's a good way to go, but it's not really authentic.

This is my personal favorite: the all-cav force. A defending half-stack of virtually any kind of cav can take down virtually any attacking full-stack in virtually any terrain (though open hilly terrain is best). See some of my posts on this subject for details. IF you want the details: Go here. The short story: Stay away and make the enemy units chase until they puke. Gang up on any fast enemy units which leave the protection of the slower units. Finish up by picking off slow units one at a time with simultaneous charges from all directions by 3 to 4 of your fresh mounted units. This takes patience, practice, micromanagement and a lot of time on the pause button; but the results are nothing short of spectacular. Every battle is a Heroic victory. Your generals gets stars and EVERYONE gets lots and lots of chevrons. In the beginning, battle losses are 5% to 10% per battle, but if you keep reinforcements coming, your troops will soon be sporting multiple silver and gold chevrons, and will be (in your pratciced hands) all but unstoppable

On to more conventional advice...

6.) Use ranged units. Now Carthage is at a disadvantage, having only those hard-to-use slingers, and no conventional bowmen. But if you remember to park the slingers out to your left (the enemy's right) stay uphill of your opponent, and do not stand in front of them --> they will suffice. Remember that the better elephant units have archers. I like to park these guys up on a hill and wreak havoc on the advancing enemy. Also, you can hire merc archers.

7.) Practice scorched-earth warfare, if needed. This means: Go in; take a city; sack it (gives you money and reduces population); sell off every building (more money for you and leaves less for the city's economy and for building quality troops) then move ALL your stack on to repeat at the next enemy city. You lose nothing, the enmy loses a city, and you get to rinse and repeat... Yes, these cities will rebel and will likely be taken back by the enemy; but eventually the enemy is weakened by having to spend money on inferior troops to take back cities and rebuild infrastructure instead of spending that money to fight you. This strategy is especially effective against the economically tough Egyptians, but I see no reason why it cannot be use against Rome. In fact, it is so effective, it should be outlawed. (I have never used it against Rome, as I have never had to.)

8.) Exterminate your opponent. Plan and execute such that partial enemy units are not able to flee. The AI gets lots of cash; so a partially killed unit can come back at you at full strength in 2 turns. Make sure to kill off every fleeing unit down to less than five men. Make sure to kill off the war dog HANDLERS, not just the dogs.

9.) My final bit of wisdom: Use elephants... carefully.

Someone said that elephants are highly effective against horses. That is mostly true. But it does not necessarily follow that the best use for ellies is chasing superior stamina horses about the map. Carthage has several tools to use against cav (e.g. spears, other cav and elephants); but Carthage has only one trump card to play against the superior Roman heavy infantry: Elephants. Elephants are highly effective against any non-spear H.I.

Be careful to minimize the chances of running amok. Do this by eliminating enemy archers before they can use flame arrows on your ellies, and try to keep your elephants from becoming tired (or worse). Make the enemy advance to your elephants (instead of running your elephants half way across the map to engage). Try to use the War elephants and Armored elephants, when you can get them.

I like to pin enemy infantry with spears and run ellies into the backs or flanks; but you can do a full frontal attack with ellies vs the best Roman swords with impunity. Just remember to have another unit available to mop up the mess, so that the ellies do not get bogged down and can move on to the next challenge.

Hopefully you listened to previous advice: and have set up your position on a high knoll and the enemy has been forced into the role of attacker and has had to schlog uphill against missile fire to fight you. Wear down enemy numbers and (more importantly) morale as best you can, then engage with your spears. Before your own line has a chance to turn tail, run you ellies in from the back or side. What you are attempting to do is break up the ranks and hopefully start a domino effect of enemy morale failure and rout. The combined effect of having a neighboring unit rout and also simultaneously facing elephants and spears should do the trick.

If the enemy general offers the opportunity, attack him with ellies; but do not chase cavalry around the map and thereby abuse your elephants' fragile stamina.

If your ellies do run amok, don't panic! And for pity sake, do -NOT- spike this extremely valuable asset! Your mounted units should be able to keep their distance. If your ellies kill off an infantry unit or two, so be it. If you planned correctly you should be near the end of the battle. Keep your forces away from the amok unit and finish off the enemy for the win. You will get your elephants back.

Note also, that a blitzkrieg all-cav stack which includes elephants can travel very fast on the campaign map, and can attack non-stone walls on the same turn due to the elephant's ability to push down wooden gates. I typically hire mercs at the gate and attack the same turn. An all-cav force with 1 or 2 elephant units can be a devastating conventional or scorched-earth tool, something to be highly feared by your AI opponents.

I hope this helps.