Greek historical Researcher

[swhunter]

Gents!
DVK has invited me to partake in this beloveded team as a Greek researcher.
Does he know what hes getting into ?
Maybe not. but anyhow i would like to say howdy!
Iam a greek & Scottish & Apache White mountian White man!
And i love the greeks! Also the romans!
And i will do my best to find all the cra.... oops Historical !
Ideas about greek clothes armour, history, tactics, helmets , ect....
I been playing with RS for allmost as soon as it came out. And love it. Did i go to other modds? Yes... Just
to see what they have in their greek units.
Some are impressive others are not!
I believe RS will out do them all! In all these fine boys ideas here.

A little about myself. if you can put up with it.
Iam 47 married, & two kidds ( which got me invloved )
My wife and i have a Inter. Design business.
I am a Christian loves history and feels history will add to the fun of this Modd. I know some of you like.. tone, aja.. for ticking him off putiing my posts in the wrong place.
Looking forward working with you all,
and your ideas.
once i start posting all opions are helpfull!
In 3 days ill be on vaca. ( hope thats ok DVK ??
i will be back in a week.
thank you guys!
SWHunter

[ARMENIOS]

Oh, another poor guy in this Mod

Welcome & enjoy your stay

[dvk901]

One thing...the new factions are TOP SECRET!!

[Drtad]

One thing...the new factions are TOP SECRET!!

I may have let one slip... As long as nobody looks at the second to last page of the Armenian Preview, its okay.

[swhunter]

Yes sir!
No problem i kinda figured that out what isee stays here!
thank you

[swhunter]

Iam starting with Crete, looking for its history and give details which maybe can help our new RS 2
read below and see what you like.





The army list starts after the Doreans subjugated the Minoans in Crete and continues until Crete was annexed by the
Roman Empire in 68 B.C.

The Doric Cretans organized their city states along very strict lines. It is said the Lykourgos used them as a model to reform Spartan society. The men slept at home but used to eat at common mess halls. The boys lived at home they reached 17 years. Then they entered the "agelae" and they were taught the basics of reading and music At 18 they were "abducted" by older mentors for a period of three months. During that period they were taught to survive in the open, the use of the bow, and light infantry tactics.

On Crete, two rival confederations arose around the cities of Knossos and Lyktos. Just like on the mainland, the Cretan city-states were in a state of constant civil war. According to Diodorus, the eastern Cretan city states were also in conflict with the Phoenicians and later with the Cypriots. The losers and those fed up with the situation frequently migrated to other Greek city states, often renting out their services as mercenary bowmen. Among the most famous exploits of Cretan mercenaries were with Xenophon¹s 10000 that held their own against the Persians.

Initially each of the Successors tried to control the island because of its strategic location. Each of the Cretan cities supported the campaigns of their Successor allies with mercenary contingents. The eastern cities initially put themselves under the protection of the Seleucids and later under Eumenes of Pergamon. Ptolemaic Egypt intervened in 267 and 261 BC, but was unable to unify the Cretan cities. The western states allied themselves with the Aetolian league and then with Phillip 5th of Macedon, who sent an army of pacification in 220 BC. Crete sided with Philip against the Romans in the Macedonian Wars of 214-196 BC.

The worst civil wars occurred during the Hellenistic period. The cities of Knossos, Cydonia and Gortyna struggled to assert their dominance. The Romans sent ambassadors in 184, 180 and 174 BC in unsuccessful attempts to negotiate peace. The decline of Hellenistic authority under pressure of Roman expansion coupled with the constant civil war destroyed the social fabric of the island, which became a notorious refuge for adventurers and outlaws. At that time bad behavior was called "Cretan Way"! Cilician pirates found refuge in the island and the locals soon joined them in plundering even the ships of mighty Rome. With piracy growing to epidemic proportions, Rhodes sent an invading army in 154 BC, which was heavily defeated. Enouraged by Mithradates VI of Pontus, Crete and Cilician pirates pillaged Roman shipping throughout hte Mediterranean.

In 74 BC, the Roman Senate dispatched an army and fleet under Marcus Antonius (father of the famous Mark Antony) to suppress the pirates on Crete. The invasion was poorly managed and Antonius suffered a humilitating defeat, with many Romans captured and sold into slavery. The continuing war with Mithradates and the slave revolt of Spartacus, however, occupied Roman attention and prevented an immediate response.

With the death of Mithradates in 68 BC, the Senate ordered Crete to release its Roman prisoners and submit its leaders to Roman justice. Crete rejected the demand and the Senate dispatched the Proconsul Quintus Caecilius Metellus with three legions to enforce their edict. The Cretans under Lasthenes and Panares fought unsuccessfully against Metellus, who attacked the Cretan towns and cities, razing Lyktos to the ground, and conducting a harsh campaign against the Cretan populace. Unable to stand up to the Romans in open battle, the Cretans dispersed to fight as partisans. Metellus responded to the guerrilla war with unparallel savagery. Only the pro-Roman city of Gortyn was spared devastation. Meanwhile, Pompey had arrived on the scene with a Senate imperium to fight piracy throughout the eastern Mediterraean. The Cretans saw their opportunity and negotiated a surrender to Pompey to obtain more favorable treatment. Metellus was dismissed by Pompey, but later returned to complete the pacification of Crete, for which he earned the cognomen "Creticus."

Aggression
Aggression 2. When fighting Cypriot or Cyrenaician Greeks, Cretans should be the Invader.

Allies and Enemies
Enemies: Geometric Greek, Cretan Greek, Libyan, Early & later Hoplite Greek, Cypriot and Phoenician , Cyrenean Greek, Hellenistic Greek, Successors Armies, Polybian Roman. Hellenistic armies attacking Cretans must fight without Elephants

Allies: Early & Later Hoplite Greek, Hellenistic Greek, Ptolemaic, Pergamen, Later Macedonian. Hellenistic allied elements cannot include Elephantry.

The Variant List
The Cretan Greek list differs from Greek mainland hoplite lists, which employ Cretan archers as psiloi. On Crete, archers fought in the line of battle instead of as skirmishers, and hence are classed as bow elements.

Early List 800-200 BC Later List 200-68 BC Description
1x 2Lh or 4Sp (Gen) 1x 2Lh or 3Cv (Gen) General on horse or with hoplite phalanx. With appearance of the hoplite phalanx, cavalry fell from grace and Cretan ponies were not suitable for heavy horse formations. But in later years, better horses would have been imported and/or mercenary horsemen hired hence the Cv upgrade
2x 3Bw 2x 3Bw Cretan archers with bow. Some carry javelins and small shields and others wear Greek-style armor. In the later list, Cretan archers are armed with bows, javelins, small shields and helmets
6x 4Sp 4x 4Sp or 4Pk Civic or Mercenary hoplites. Pike in the later list represent converted civic hoplites or allies.
2x 2Ps 2x 2Ps Javeliners or Slingers supporting the ranks as skirmishers or used for setting ambushes.
1x 3Bw or 3Ax 2x 3Bw or 3Ax More Cretan archers or Cretan/mercenary peltasts.
1x 3Wb Cilician Pirates

References
Encyclopedia "Papyros La Roux"
Osprey Books "The Ancient Greeks" and "The Spartan Army"
Polybios "Histories"
Plutarch "Parallel Lives"

Fanatici Feedback
Forthcoming.


Next----------------------


Knossos, Crete: The Palace of Minos For building modders if you think it might work
From K. Kris Hirst,
Your Guide to Archaeology.
FREE Newsletter. Sign Up Now!
The Labyrinth of Minoan Culture
Knossos Palace is the legendary site of Theseus fighting the Minotaur, Ariadne and her ball of string, Daedalus the architect and doomed Icarus of the wax wings: how many of us dream Minoan dreams and never realize it?

The Aegean culture known as Minoan is the Bronze Age civilization that flourished on the island of Crete during the second and third millennia B.C. The city of Knossos was one of its main cities--and it contained its largest palace after the shattering earthquake that marks the beginning of the New Palace period in Greek archaeology, ca. 1700 BC.




Sorry gents this is the only picture i can find on this temple.



heres some more




heres a few more




From what i have found that the common armour for a hopelite was lite from cloth and leather armour
to scale to mail, And of course musle armour ofr generals. Which i am sure this isnt new to you gents.
The helmet of the day for all greeks around the known world seems to be the attic helmet.
Which gives you full vision and leaves the ears open for commands.
its not as pretty as the Corth . helmets that the spartans have and our other new elites.
but it is more historical. If we want to have varity of these units should we work on shields ?
Which we have, also armour of the different types i spoke about.
matbe different colors of clothes? Since these hopelites would come from different backgrounds and locations.
But its up to DVK and you modders iam just giveing ideas which may or may not have been delt with.
thanks

[pseudocaesar]

awesome as! another greek lover! im studying greek and roman history at uni, but im still a novice, i find my particular favourite is in macedonian and successor peoples. i got a fair few books on them, so together i think we can whip up a pretty awesome greek roster!

[swhunter]

awesome as! another greek lover! im studying greek and roman history at uni, but im still a novice, i find my particular favourite is in macedonian and successor peoples. i got a fair few books on them, so together i think we can whip up a pretty awesome greek roster!

Thank s Guys !! That means alot! Also pseudocaesar
Well my education goes as the highest prefection level that earthly man can reach the level of completeness! Highschool !
looking forward working with you also PSE. and anyothers.
My next adventure will be looking into rodes.
I must say there isnt much on the the history in pictures in the year 200 b.c. and the first century. I guess its because of the roman influence
and the Empire takeing over everything.
I must also give credit to EB modd they have soom cool stuff.
But i believe we have better modders and skinners.
But i dont mean to bash them since were all from this RTW world.
thnaks again gents!
SW

[dvk901]

Now that is great stuff!! I enjoyed reading it...particularly since Crete is one of our proposed 'Batch-File' swap factions. They sound like a really nasty bunch in a state of constant warfare. Perfect! I also really like the descriptions of the units. I'm sure Tone will have a field day with this!

[♔Jean-Luc Picard♔]

hurrah! now we can get the greeks (my favorites) right. thanks hunter. that made for some interesting reading.

Skan

[spirit_of_rob]

Generals will NOT change majorly regardless of accuracy they took me bloomin ages

[dvk901]

Don't worry bud......I have no intention of doing anything that would be detrimental to your work. My hope would be to 'enhance' it, if anything. And make them even better. I love the work that you guys have done, and I want to make the absolute best and extensive use\exposure of it. That's why I said I hoped to even make your Generals the strat characters as well, because they're so good! I've already made the new 'Scythian' general the strat general, and it looks really cool.

Furthermore, you have the final say anyway. You don't like anything I do...it will be undone!!

[swhunter]

http://ancientcoinscatalog.narod.ru/page5/page5.htm

Hi i found this way back on the google list
it might be something you can use . coins


Rodes Colossus Working on Rodes now.
http://unmuseum.mus.pa.us/colrhode.htm

This is Rhodes/Ancient Kameiros
http://www.simplyterry.net/rhodes_ancient_kameiros.htm

This is when rhodes was almost destoryed by the Mace. roman saved them!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lade_(201_BC)

CHRONOLOGY OF ANCIENT GREECE

(all dates B.C.) I found this answered alot of my questions why greece didnt have a whole lot more of a independant army!


http://www.e-classics.com/chronology.htm

[swhunter]

Hi gents i was looking into the ruins of troy and found it near Perg.
Would it be kinda fun haveing it in the citys building box?
Iam not saying building it. but useing it for happyness for the city?
Also also haveing it on the battlemap?

And since we have pagan temples everywhere you can carry a goat to.
Why not in jeruaslem? Can we have building there?

thanks

[pseudocaesar]

hehe i rebuttled your comment pretty harshly lol! gotta quell the dissent before it grows haha

[swhunter]

hi i am back from vaca for awhile.
While i was out. I was thinking about useing somehow the carth. roman
skins for greek romans ? Since in history rome was friendy with greece for a while. so what do you think of haveing roman influenced greeks?
when rome takes a city or a AOR ?
tell me what you think.

thks.

heres a site that speaks for mace. and greek city states when rome was invadeing!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenistic_Greece

This is also very interesting!
Please read it all and look everything over! some very good maps!
And also battle tactics!

Romes conquests of greece. And the Mace wars!
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~klio/rr/09-mac_wars.htm

[dvk901]

Good stuff, I particularly liked (and had never seen) that second site. A wealth of info there.

[swhunter]

This is another site i found.
Its a boardgame online. but some of their units are pretty cool!
take a look.

http://www.ancient-online.com/home.php



This is a time line of battles from BC to AD its good info.
since it deals with carth. and rome and greece.
http://www.fincher.org/History/WorldBC.shtml

[swhunter]

http://www.4hoplites.com/Hoplites.htm

Look at this site. Shows hopelites shield and Ect...

This has armour i know the helmets are Corth. but the rest is very cool.
http://www.4hoplites.com/Hoplites.htm

Take a look at these. they are models of different types of factions.
very good for seeing style of clothes and armour of different factions.


http://www.irregularminiatures.co.uk...mmAncients.htm

[swhunter]

http://www.ancientbattles.com/merc_h...erc_greeks.htm

These are Greek hopelites, good color in the models

This is the Greek hoplite page very good pictures!
http://www.larp.com/hoplite/

I do like the Eye in the center of the shield. i have seen those alot through this search.
Do you think we could add them? They are on a blue shield with the eye in the center.