Spears vs Swords

[MattErickson]

Are spears versus swords that bad? I know the Greeks used spears when fighting swords and they worked it out, was that just because of their hoplite formation?

I just sent a unit of Triari to do some housecleaning along with two units of Hastati and a general. Needless to say all went well, the Hastati engaged the warbands and the general charged the peasants with the Triari close behind. After a while my general got outnumbered so I pulled him out and charged my Triari.

So my question is this, why did my unit of Triari get massacred by two units of barbarian peasants? To me it doesn't make sense that the elites of the pre-marian legions get mowed down. Is this just because of the numbers or the swords to spears battle?

Then I lost the battle when I was unable to kill the enemy general with my already routed Triari and he charged my line and routed my forces. I lost.


Arghh

[Roman Clone]

Its harder to move a long spear than a small knife. Truly, the only good spearmen are macedonian phalangites.

[MattErickson]

Really? And where would I get these nano-disassemblers, Arretium or Arminium?

But wern't the Roman Triari trained enough to form a spear wall and hold their own, or do they just wander off and go one on one?

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Really? And where would I get these nano-disassemblers, Arretium or Arminium?

But wern't the Roman Triari trained enough to form a spear wall and hold their own, or do they just wander off and go one on one?

Spearmen get a penalty vs. Infantry and a bonus vs. Cavalry, you know. Triarii should never be used against infantry unless they're fresh and the enemy infantry is exhausted, and that's how it worked with Pre-Marian legions.

But I suppose you're using vanilla, so the Pre-Marian tactic of tiring and wearing down the enemy with hastati might not work right at all, they'll rout too quickly. Best to put the Triarii in your flank and use them against cavalry.

[STReetSamurai]

You lost against peasants with 4 tier infantry.

[MattErickson]

Haha, yah I guess so. I've always been bad at battles, and management, and conquering for that matter. But still,

[_TubbZ_]

nah wat you should have done is just hold with your hastati and then flank with your general and rout them in seconds. If you leave your triarii at the back behind the engaged hastati then when their cavalry tries charging you you can react with the spearmen and beat his general in seconds...

[Lucius Vorenus]

I always wondered why my Hastati was demolishing the opposition while the Triarii were getting slaughtered....

[Saibot]

Well I find that spearmen kind of suck against infantry but spearmen using the Phalanx formation completely destroy swordsmen when used correctly. So I think normal non-phalanx spearmen are good to fight against cavalry and defend the flanks while phalanx units are multi-purposed and can be used in basically every scenario.

[Ummagumma]

"I know the Greeks used spears when fighting swords and they worked it out"
Worked out what? How to lose to Rome? I guess if there are few enough swordsmen against your unflankable phalanx you are in good shape. If not, then..
65cm Gladius blade vs. 6m Sarissa pike. Go figure..

(No, I'm not a historian, and this is a crass generalisation. Either way Spear combat died out for a long time.)

I only ever use spear or pike armed units in a defensive role (for archers to stand behind) in Total War. For anything else you need swords or a good line-breaking double handed axe!

[Roshak]

That is odd for Trarii have all ways done well for me but I mostly used them for cavalry and the occasionally holding or flanking force. I think the other effects like your general's traits or the enemy unit's experience or general stats might of turned the tide of the battle over to him.

[chomskola]

is it true that triarii take a penalty against infantry? i have always known them to kick ass......the german phalanx warbands certainly seem able to demolish enemy infantry....

[Rasui Runihura]

Phalanxes own anything up close. Regular Spearmen should not be used against infantry.

[Octavium]

Regardless of all this, is no-one else still surprised that 2 units of peasants killed triarii?

[MattErickson]

Uh, me! I was still thinking elites would be able to smoke some peasants.

[Ardor]

I always found that spearmen beat everything... Though i never personally used spearmen before, nothing i throw at them seems to work, even infantry just fights them to a standstill. I usually have to resort to spooking nearby cavalry/chariots to have them mow down their own spearmen... Then again, every spearman i met have been in the phalanx formation.

Can any Roman form a phalanx? The Triarii seem massively underpowered in this game while Roman archers and cavalry are too "overpowered".

I've only played one campaign. So maybe i am missing something?

[Roman Clone]

I don't even bother training spear men, unless it's using a Macedonian Phalanx.

[roma victor]

the hoplite formation by itself is effective against light infantry and all cavalry unless hit in the flanks or the rear. even if the spearmen are using swords

[Dr. Croccer]

Triarii are meant as teh ultimate defensive, pre-Marius unit. Against cavalry, they own. Use Hastati and Principes against infantry and hoplites. Triarii are only good against infantry if they are weakend.

[LeonidasOfSparta]

i think sp sux now i started playng online.....it is unreal compared to it. lol start playng online and u see difference



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