Proposals for Opifex

[Silver Guard]

I propose each of these people separately, please post to indicate which you support. You may also add others to the list. Limited to CC only. I will put forward this proposal when i feel fit, and only those with 3+ supporters will be included.

ThiudareiksGunthigg 6
Zenith Darksea 5
Seneca 5
Siblesz 8
Garbarsardar 7
Ozymandias 6
Tostig 4
Oldgamer 5

[Serious Spamurai]

Hmmm... I'll support the following as I feel their contribution to the CC is exemplary:

MasterAdnin
jankren
Zenith Darksea
Seneca
Siblesz
Garbarsardar
Ozymandias
Oldgamer

Optifex applies to the CC so we might as well use it for CC contributers

[Scorch]

I support the following:
ThiudareiksGunthigg
Seneca
Siblesz
Garbarsardar
Ozymandias
Tostig
Oldgamer

[Thanatos]

I support:

Oldgamer
Zenith Darksea

[AngryTitusPullo]

MasterAdnin
jankren

[Scorch]

MasterAdnin
jankren

Please, outline their contributions? The contribution of these two pale ridiculously in comparison to those of Thiud, Ozy, Seneca, Garb and a few others.

Please, outline how Jankren and MasterAdnin have served the Total War Community by giving "exceptional input" into the Common Community?

They haven't.

ThiudareiksGunthigg:

Voted "Best Historical Poster 2006" and nominated for "Best Debater 2006"

Awarded the Philosopher's Robe "for dispelling numerous myths about most everything time and time and time and time and time again" - June 07, 2007

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...46#post1303646

Ozy:
30,000+ posts, for god's sake! If that's not exceptional input, I don't know what is. To quote Bel:

one need only go through the posts of Ozymandias and take into consideration the sheer volume of information and participation to note the outstanding contributions he has made to the Common community throughout his time within the community.

Garb:
Well, Garb is an amazing debater, and has earned the philosopher's robe for a reason. In several minutes of searching, I found many an exceptional post of his, such as:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35864
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=50195
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49503

Tostig:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...29#post1275629
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...28#post1274728
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...84#post1272584
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...93#post1259493
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=80993
Need I go on?

Oldgamer:
Well, I suppose this post should be justification enough, but if not:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...68#post2031368
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...11#post1863811
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...02#post1848402

Seneca:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...24#post1413224
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...88#post1382488
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...52#post1335852 - quite a useful contribution
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56199

MasterAdnin and Jankren simply haven't nearly contributed as excellently and consistently as these guys have, and given that they're the only ones you support, I'm not quite sure you're not supporting them simply because they are Muslims, really.

[Jubal_Barca]

ThiudareiksGunthigg
MasterAdnin
Zenith Darksea
Seneca
Siblesz
Garbarsardar
Ozymandias
Tostig

[AngryTitusPullo]

Please, outline their contributions? The contribution of these two pale ridiculously in comparison to those of Thiud, Ozy, Seneca, Garb and a few others.

Please, outline how Jankren and MasterAdnin have served the Total War Community by giving "exceptional input" into the Common Community?

If you see other post before me you can see only names.. So why should I outline the contibution of whom I propose ?

They haven't.

Yeah. I guess they didn't. None of them are.

MasterAdnin and Jankren simply haven't nearly contributed as excellently and consistently as these guys have, and given that they're the only ones you support, I'm not quite sure you're not supporting them simply because they are Muslims, really.

Haven't you still realize that there's a muslim conspiracy to take over the world, even on TWC ?

Of course I'm supporting them because they are muslims. Without them many more people who misunderstood Islam will keep on living in bigotry. Isn't that reason enough ?

[gigagaia]

Need I remind the curia that garb was rejected for opifex on the grounds that his contributions were not opifexy enough? I disagree with that, but let's remember what the curia willed before proceeding down this parth.

If Garb doesn't qualify, none of those should, and Garb has probably brought by far the most to TWC discussion amongst that entire group. This award should not be handed out like candy, and no offence to those in the list, debating well is not criteria alone for opifex. I can think of a ton of good debators. Hell, I wasn't too shabby when I had time to frequent the CC. If they did have the level of contribution to TWC intellectually, plus politically in building what TWC is today (in non-staff capacity), then maybe. But making a handful of decent posts which you can dig upand debating a lot with people in controversial topics, is not enough. Opifexes are supposed to be the cream of the crop in making TWC a unique and special place. Mods are a big part of that and that is why Modders hold a disproportionate number of Opifex awards.

Garb is the only one I would support in this list. The rest, I just don't see how they can compare to our most prolific modders and most prestigious contributors, such as Lord Rahl.

[Scorch]

Need I remind the curia that garb was rejected for opifex on the grounds that his contributions were not opifexy enough? I disagree with that, but let's remember what the curia willed before proceeding down this parth.

If Garb doesn't qualify, none of those should, and Garb has probably brought by far the most to TWC discussion amongst that entire group. This award should not be handed out like candy, and no offence to those in the list, debating well is not criteria alone for opifex. I can think of a ton of good debators. Hell, I wasn't too shabby when I had time to frequent the CC. If they did have the level of contribution to TWC intellectually, plus politically in building what TWC is today (in non-staff capacity), then maybe. But making a handful of decent posts which you can dig upand debating a lot with people in controversial topics, is not enough. Opifexes are supposed to be the cream of the crop in making TWC a unique and special place. Mods are a big part of that and that is why Modders hold a disproportionate number of Opifex awards.

Garb is the only one I would support in this list. The rest, I just don't see how they can compare to our most prolific modders and most prestigious contributors, such as Lord Rahl.

And if Sim could dig up the numbers, you'd see that out of the thousands upon thousands of people that post in the CC, six or so really do represent the cream of the crop.

I really think that these six people I support truly have raised the bar for intellectual debating at TWC, which really is a big part of the boards.

[gigagaia]

And if Sim could dig up the numbers, you'd see that out of the thousands upon thousands of people that post in the CC, six or so really do represent the cream of the crop.

I really think that these six people I support truly have raised the bar for intellectual debating at TWC, which really is a big part of the boards.

Oh now, you would compare being an active debator the same kind of award as, say, making forum or board skins, keeping TWC running or making a mod which attracts numerous new members?
Let me me be a bit more precise, perhaps. Can you show me that removing any of those Members, save Garb, would actually harm TWC to the same degree as, say, modders, the people who did the artistic work for TWC or ran serious publications (pre-scribe's quill era)? Of course not. Debators, while adding character to TWC, are not nearly in the same category as the other Opifices. Have they gone out of their way to do something for the community, or devoted huge amounts of time to developing a particular aspect of TWC, beyond doing what they would otherwise go to another forum to do? Simply showing up, posting well (being smart) and logging off should not be enough.
An opifex is a builder. As much as I appreciate good debators at TWC, I just don't really see how debators can be considered for opifex on this basis alone.

Good debators have something to aspire to: Citizenship. Let's not pat each other on the back too much now, shall we?

[Scorch]

Oh now, you would compare being an active debator the same kind of award as, say, making forum or board skins, keeping TWC running or making a mod which attracts numerous new members?
Let me me be a bit more precise, perhaps. Can you show me that removing any of those Members, save Garb, would actually harm TWC to the same degree as, say, modders, the people who did the artistic work for TWC or ran serious publications (pre-scribe's quill era)? Of course not. Debators, while adding character to TWC, are not nearly in the same category as the other Opifices. Have they gone out of their way to do something for the community, or devoted huge amounts of time to developing a particular aspect of TWC, beyond doing what they would otherwise go to another forum to do? Simply showing up, posting well (being smart) and logging off should not be enough.
An opifex is a builder. As much as I appreciate good debators at TWC, I just don't really see how debators can be considered for opifex on this basis alone.

Good debators have something to aspire to: Citizenship. Let's not pat each other on the back too much now, shall we?

I never meant to belittle the input of those such as Rahl, but the constitution says: "To qualify as an Opifex, the nominee must have served the Total War Center or Total War Community with exceptional input to any of the boards".

Ozy, Sibz, Garb, Tostig, Thiud and Oldgamer have all made exceptional input into the CC side of the board.

It's not about what would happen if they were removed from the board, but rather, is their input good enough to be considered exceptional?

I believe it is. Without the depth, standard and quality of debating that they set, I probably never would have made more than one-hundred posts at TWC, and I think a lot of other members will echo that.

[gigagaia]

I never meant to belittle the input of those such as Rahl, but the constitution says: "To qualify as an Opifex, the nominee must have served the Total War Center or Total War Community with exceptional input to any of the boards".

Ozy, Sibz, Garb, Tostig, Thiud and Oldgamer have all made exceptional input into the CC side of the board.

I daresay that out of that list, Garb, perhaps Sibs, have done that. The rest are not in the category of exceptional that you are thinking. Consider that before "team opifexes" were started, there were about all of about 6 people, and Garb was rejected, with most of his accomplishments laid bare. Debating is what everyone in the CC does. I am sorry, but I fail to see anything exceptional about debating. Garb has produced numerous essays in the Script and What was the mausoleum, run the fight club, saved TWC a few times in the past, so yes, Garb would have my support. But do any of those come even close (Sibs greatest contributions, let's not forget, were as an admin, hence he is a divus) to that otherwise? Garb has invested tremendous effort beyond "posting well." But has anyone else in that list done the same (sibs aside) in that list, outside of staff?

This is tantamount to the curia sitting down in a circle and patting each other on the back for doing essentially what they came here to do. I'm sorry, but I find the idea of giving people one of the highest awards on site, designed and originally granted to people who, through enormous volunteer work, have made Total War Center the largest Total War fansite on the web, to people who have merely taken part, albeit well, in off-topic discussion, absolutely ludicrous.

It's not about what would happen if they were removed from the board, but rather, is their input good enough to be considered exceptional?

That is what citizenship is for and that is almost always why it is given to CC people.

I believe it is. Without the depth, standard and quality of debating that they set, I probably never would have made more than one-hundred posts at TWC, and I think a lot of other members will echo that.

Perhaps. But perhaps not. I found that a lot of my earlier posts were not involved with any of those members. Think about the difference they made for the thousands of other, non-citizen members, who don't even know what the off topic board even looks like, versus those who made the mods, crafted the skins, poured their souls into badges, sigs and whatnot. Come on, for god's sake. It's not even half comparable. I can think of at least a dozen more people who debated a lot and well. Heck, the curia should be full of civitates who fulfil these requirements.

It's times like these I really wonder...

[Miraj]

ThiudareiksGunthigg - Best Historical Poster on TWC in my opinion. Learnt a lot from his threads.
Siblesz - Some of the most insightful posts/threads on TWC. Deep philosophical stuff, most of which I'm too dumb to understand.
MasterAdnin - Most patient person ever. Has to deal with lots of hate-mongers yet seldom, unlike myself, stoops to their level. Always treats even the most hostile individuals with respect.
Garbarsardar - What can I say, he's an awsome debater. Though haven't seen him around as of late.
Ozymandias - Once again, a great and extremely persistent debater.

[Scorch]

This is the current list, I think:
Irishman
ThiudareiksGunthigg 3
MasterAdnin 4
eventhorizen
jankren 2
Zenith Darksea 3
Seneca 3
Siblesz 4
Garbarsardar 5
Ozymandias 4
Tostig 2
Oldgamer 3
Kscott

[Thanatos]

Well, now we know who's in the serious running!

[Thanatos]

Well, the way Ozy sees it is that good debators build *hint, hint* good arguments.

I think it quite far-fetched, but ah well.

[iudas]

Modders are fairly recognised already. These debaters make TWC the most intellectual fansite on the web.

I support all of them, really.

[gigagaia]

Then instead of desecrating this award by supporting the nominations of these people or even nominating them in the first place come up with one which does so and is not restricted to citizens.

The only problem is, that usually people are rewarded with citizenship for this type of thing. I would just work on making member awards more comprehensive and definitave and work on that, instead of tossing around awards like cheap chocolate. Unless there are defined standards of achievement, let members choose.

However, don't take this as me willing to oppose the creation of a new award in the line you are thinking. But will not support in any manner, handing out Opifexs like they are boyscout badges.

[Tacticalwithdrawal]

sigh, as the person who originally came up with the idea of the Opifex, I have to say I agree with Gig.

If you debate supremely well you get citizenship and a medal. Opifex is for something really, really special. Garb qualifies to my mind (but not the Curia's last time around), Sib maybe just qualifies (though he is most definately a Divus) but the others, no.

Put it this way, the mark of someone who really deserves it is if you say 'x' should be Opifex then everyone says 'OMG YES!' - Lord Rahl, Lusted, Darth, Lt, General Sun all had that effect. With respect to their contributions, only 1 (mybe 2) on that list have the effect.

Ozy, for example, will probably reach that stage if he continues to do the job as Speaker he is doing.
Garb is an obvious candidate (he also helped me start the Scriptorium - one of the biggest successes of recent times)

I'd veto this if I could