need some help with IBFD 7.0 and have some comment

[Hohenlohe]

first I need some help,because I have changed some units for the goths and ostrogoths and not all do function.
I have changed the Gothic Veteran Warband to 1turn recruitment and gave them the ostrogoths too, because these were foederates around AD454 after defeating the huns.I changed the according unit and building files, but in my new game they didn´t appeared as the also changed Alan Cavalry did.I am even missing the Gepidae Swordsmen for the Ostrogoths as I got only the Lemovii tribesmen armed with swords.Whats wrong with my doing and the files because I think that I did the right??

second: Why are the Gothic Cnitas only armed with spears and why are they no real Lancers as they historically are.In the 4th century the Ostrogoths aka Greutungen were mainly a Cavalry or Mounted military force influenced by Iranian and Sarmatian aka Roxolani traditions.At this time the Visigoths aka Terwingen were mainly foot warriors, only their eastern cousins the Taifalen were mounted warriors.At the battle of Adrianopel the Visigoths were mainly fighting on foot and only with the help of a strong ostrogothic cavalry force which had fouraged in the nearby area they could claim victory over the eastern romans.
In this case I refer to the ostrogothic cnitas which were indeed lancers and could form a wedge and must have power_charge because they were a shock cavalry.I did not know which sources you have used but I never heard anything about Rugian Lancers or such else cavalry.The rugian tribe settled at the upper danube in later austria around the 5th century and they were neighbours to the ostrogoths,lombards and baiuvarian.As i think they were mostly foot warriors equipped with pikes,spears,axes and swords and they seems not to have strong cavalry.Atthemost they had only spear cavalry(light ones with javelins).But the Ostrogoths had strong connections to the Roxolani and so they should have Sarmatian Heavy Cavalry aka Lancers.I think that the Ostrogoths must even have some Gothic or Sarmatian Horse Archers or some Alan Horse Archers.Why?? The Alans were driven away from the huns after their defeat and separated in different tribes.Some were subjugated by the huns,most of them were driven away and allied with the Vandals and settled later on near Orleans,in Tarraconensis and in Lusitania.But some could have allied with the Ostrogoths after defeating the huns.As the Vandals moved to Africa only some parts of the Alans moved with them.So as a result there could be Alan Cavalry with the Vandals,the Goths and even the Ostrogoths.I like to see new units for the Ostrogoths like
Sarmatian Lancers(here mainly the Roxolani which settled around Sirmium in the 5th century)and Gothic Horse Archers(the real archers no javelins but bows)or Sarmatian Horse Archers.No Rugian Lancers but only Mounted Skirmishers.And after all also the Gothic Veterans(or Foederatii) and the Gepidae Swordsmen.Perhaps the Herulian Axe Riders(light cavalry with axes and shields)could be attached because they settled near Singidunum in Dacia
Ripensis or Moesia I as the provinces were named.
Above all your mod is wonderful and a very well researched work.Regard my words not as offending you but as some suggestion

greetings

Hohenlohe

[Ramon Gonzales y Garcia]

first I need some help,because I have changed some units for the goths and ostrogoths and not all do function.
I have changed the Gothic Veteran Warband to 1turn recruitment and gave them the ostrogoths too, because these were foederates around AD454 after defeating the huns.I changed the according unit and building files, but in my new game they didn´t appeared as the also changed Alan Cavalry did.I am even missing the Gepidae Swordsmen for the Ostrogoths as I got only the Lemovii tribesmen armed with swords.Whats wrong with my doing and the files because I think that I did the right??

maybe u'd have to edit descr_model_battle, also...

second: Why are the Gothic Cnitas only armed with spears and why are they no real Lancers as they historically are.

do u mean the ostrogothic cnithas? or the visigothic cnithas?

I did not know which sources you have used but I never heard anything about Rugian Lancers or such else cavalry.
The rugian tribe settled at the upper danube in later austria around the 5th century and they were neighbours to the ostrogoths,lombards and baiuvarian.As i think they were mostly foot warriors equipped with pikes,spears,axes and swords and they seems not to have strong cavalry.Atthemost they had only spear cavalry(light ones with javelins).

u got a point there.

But the Ostrogoths had strong connections to the Roxolani and so they should have Sarmatian Heavy Cavalry aka Lancers.I think that the Ostrogoths must even have some Gothic or Sarmatian Horse Archers or some Alan Horse Archers.

another good point.

I like to see new units for the Ostrogoths like
Sarmatian Lancers(here mainly the Roxolani which settled around Sirmium in the 5th century)

easily done

and Gothic Horse Archers(the real archers no javelins but bows)or Sarmatian Horse Archers.

can u give sources for the Gothic horse archer? as for the Sarmatians, I have recently been of the opinion that there is no distinction between Sarmatian Lancers and Sarmatian horse archers as Sarmatian cavalry (wheteher Roxolani, Iazyges, Alani) used both kontos and bows so they are essentially both lancers and horse archers

No Rugian Lancers but only Mounted Skirmishers.

I've had my doubts about the Rugiancavalry, too.

And after all also the Gothic Veterans(or Foederatii) and the Gepidae Swordsmen.

the Gepidae should be there... as far as foederati, that is a good idea.

Perhaps the Herulian Axe Riders(light cavalry with axes and shields)could be attached because they settled near Singidunum in Dacia

can u also give references for these axe wielding Heruli?

Above all your mod is wonderful and a very well researched work.Regard my words not as offending you but as some suggestion

not at all, you brought up some very valid points, I would welcome your help in improving the east Germans

greetings

cheers

[Hohenlohe]

Dear Ramon, thank you for your prompt answer.

first: I will take a look into the descr_model_battle.txt file and try to change the necessary data.

excuse me for not quoting but I will try to answer as well

second: I mean at all the Ostrogothic Cnitas because of their Iranian and Sarmatian influences but you can change the Visigothic Cnitas as well because the Taifal tribe was influenced by the Ostrogoths as I think.It seems to me that they got a good cavalry tradition.

I read so many books about history especially about roman even late roman history that I cannot tell you all my sources.I personally have around
1700 books as my own related to genres like history, science-fiction and fantasy.For history I am specialized on WWII and Roman history.
I have books from the late roman historians like Prokopius(Gothic Wars and Vandal War) and Jordanes(fragments from his gothic history) and modern german authors like W.Herwig and W.Giese(both university historians in germany) and the 19th century historians like Felix Dahn(his historical novel
"Battle for Rome" about the Ostrogoths influenced me in my youth) and Hans Delbrück(History of Warfare).I have some books about roman warfare and army (around a dozen or more) even about late roman army.Some books are from the Osprey series(on english),some others are hardcover books in german from different editors and authors.If I am not to occcupied with my new job and World of Warcraft(sorry for that I am playing strategy games as a grognard since 1991 and I own all TW-Games from CA; and I am playing also RPGs therefore I play WOW;I own around 300 games on CD/DVD and the same on Disks but the later have fragmentation damages(sigh)) so I will take a look into my history books the next days.I try also a look into some german fores
aka forums like www.geschichtsforum.de and try to verify my sources especially about the Rugians and Herulians.
About the Sarmatians there exists not so many books in german and I have to go to the public bibliotheque here in Munich to lease and get some books.I
got a small book about the Scythians which have some relation to the Sarmatians.

third:about the Sarmatians I have read that they used both kontos and bow
as they are equipped like socalled cataphracts.But for gameplay use I prefer to separate them into Lancers and Horse Archers, because the gothic peoples do not use very heavy cavalry like cataphracts.I prefer to name them as Roxolani Lancers and Alan Horse Archers.About the Gothic Horse Archers my only sources are Felix Dahn(excerpted from his novel) and Prokopius.The later one reported that ostrogothic king Totila resisted to use Archers in the Battle of Tadinae AD552 and was easily defeated by Byzantinian Army which used Archers in their central battle line as the Goths attacked with Cavalry.

If you like my help with the eastern germans I will try this the next weeks as my new job would allow that.

fourth:I prefer to introduce the Gothic Veterans or Foederatii as some disciplined and highly trained troops armed with javelins,swords and shield and even give them the attributes "command" and "shield wall" as they had learned Roman warfare and because of their service they must have mail armour as well with better statistics for armour and fighting(melee attack,charge bonus and defence skill).

fifth:I would give the Arian priests a try.Lightly armed with swords or knives and some leather armour(mainly pelts).I even like to see the priests from vanilla in your mod.

I hope I can be helpful in future improvements of your mod.

heartful greetings

Hohenlohe aka Mike

[Ramon Gonzales y Garcia]

second: I mean at all the Ostrogothic Cnitas because of their Iranian and Sarmatian influences but you can change the Visigothic Cnitas as well because the Taifal tribe was influenced by the Ostrogoths as I think.It seems to me that they got a good cavalry tradition.

but what do you mean they are not lancers? as far as I remember they carry kontos (couldn't access game so cannot check) and have charge bonuses

third:about the Sarmatians I have read that they used both kontos and bow
as they are equipped like socalled cataphracts.But for gameplay use I prefer to separate them into Lancers and Horse Archers, because the gothic peoples do not use very heavy cavalry like cataphracts.I prefer to name them as Roxolani Lancers and Alan Horse Archers.

I have aso thought about this, but have decided on the current units, using kontos, bows and having decent meelee ability, I think it is more realistic tha separating them to a lancer cavalry and a horse archer cavalry

About the Gothic Horse Archers my only sources are Felix Dahn(excerpted from his novel) and Prokopius.The later one reported that ostrogothic king Totila resisted to use Archers in the Battle of Tadinae AD552 and was easily defeated by Byzantinian Army which used Archers in their central battle line as the Goths attacked with Cavalry.

I think giving them ablity to recruit Sarmatian units would be better, but am prepared to listen to proofs to the contrary

If you like my help with the eastern germans I will try this the next weeks as my new job would allow that.

no prob, take your time

fourth:I prefer to introduce the Gothic Veterans or Foederatii as some disciplined and highly trained troops armed with javelins,swords and shield and even give them the attributes "command" and "shield wall" as they had learned Roman warfare and because of their service they must have mail armour as well with better statistics for armour and fighting(melee attack,charge bonus and defence skill).

I agree with this.

fifth:I would give the Arian priests a try.Lightly armed with swords or knives and some leather armour(mainly pelts).I even like to see the priests from vanilla in your mod.

I do not agree with this, priests simply shouldn't/wouldn't be fighting out in the battle line

I hope I can be helpful in future improvements of your mod.

cheers, hoping the same here.