The Quran and violence (again)

[drugpimp]

I know this has been discussed many times before but it was brought up again in another thread.

So what do you think, is the quran peaceful? Are all the quotes I have wrong? If you cant use english quotes of the quran to show its violence why can you do the same for the bible and its english quotes?

If these quotes are wrong, then how can so many muslism practice such hate?

Is Islam more tolerant of its neighbors than christianity? I would have to say that today, no islam is much more violent to its neighbors compared to christianity.

I am not trying to compare christianity to Islam, as history has shown that thousand apon thousands of lives have been taken in the name of Christ, and is responsible for countless acts violence in its own right. What I do want to discuss is how you can claim the quran is peacefull but still have millions of people use it to commit violent acts.

Oh, and how about the quran in respect to women?

[Kiljan Arslan]

Where are the quotes?

[Gary88]

can i speak for a large majority of people on here when i say

oh for ****s sake, not again

[Eranshahr]

Quran and Islam places the Woman above Allah, when it sais that you must " TAKE CARE OF WOMEN" people misunderstand it and places them at home, the safest place and gives them hijabs- so the rapist doesn't know who to get.

How people perform Islam has nothing to do with teh Quran, it is all about how you understand what you read. How you want it to be. For you Muslims and Islam and the Quran are based on hatred, for me Islam, the quran and many muslims are based on common sense and ways to life and think, and some muslims being extreme.

I AM NOT MUSLIM MYSELF!

[drugpimp]

The Qur'an:

Sura (2:191) - And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]



Sura (2:244) - Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah Heareth and knoweth all things.



Sura (2:216) - Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.



Sura (3:56) - As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.



Sura (3:151) - Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority. This speaks directly of killing Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').



Sura (4:74) - Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.



Sura (4:76) - Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah…



Sura (4:89) - They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks



Sura (4:95) - Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-



Sura (5:33) - The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement



Sura (8:12) - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them



Sura (8:15) - O ye who believe! When ye meet those who disbelieve in battle, turn not your backs to them. (16)Whoso on that day turneth his back to them, unless maneuvering for battle or intent to join a company, he truly hath incurred wrath from Allah, and his habitation will be hell, a hapless journey's end.



Sura (8:39) - And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah



Sura (8:57) - If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember.



Sura (8:59-60) - And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy



Sura (9:5) - So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them



Sura (9:14) - Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace...



Sura (9:20) - Those who believe, and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in Allah's way are of much greater worth in Allah's sight. These are they who are triumphant. The "striving" spoken of here is Jihad.



Sura (9:29) - Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.


Sura (9:30) - And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!



Sura (9:38-39) - O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place This is a warning to those who refuse to fight, that they will be punished with Hell.



Sura (9:41) - Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! That is best for you if ye but knew


Sura (9:73) - O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination



Sura (9:88) - But the Messenger, and those who believe with him, strive and fight with their wealth and their persons: for them are (all) good things: and it is they who will prosper.


Sura (9:111) - Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.



Sura (9:123) - O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness



Sura (21:44) - We gave the good things of this life to these men and their fathers until the period grew long for them; See they not that We gradually reduce the land (in their control) from its outlying borders? Is it then they who will win?



Sura (25:52) - Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness, with the (Qur'an). "Strive against" is Jihad, obviously not in the personal context. It's also significant to point out that this is a Meccan verse.



Sura (47:4) - So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners,



Sura (47:35) - Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost: for Allah is with you,



Sura (48:17) - There is no blame for the blind, nor is there blame for the lame, nor is there blame for the sick (that they go not forth to war). And whoso obeyeth Allah and His messenger, He will make him enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow; and whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom.



Sura (48:29) - Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves



Sura (61:4) - Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way



Sura (61:10-12) - O ye who believe! Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty?- That ye believe in Allah and His Messenger, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the Cause of Allah, with your property and your persons: That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Gardens of Eternity. This verse was given in battle. It uses the Arabic word, Jihad.



Sura (66:9) - O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end.

Here is another link as well
http://www.derafsh-kaviyani.com/english/quran.pdf

I will admit I dont have a copy of the quran to verify these versus.

[PointOfViewGun]

There aren't millions of muslims killing everyone they see. There are just these terrorists that are manipulated by people who uses religion to make them kill people.

I know what you'll say: So you can use Islam to kill people?

Obviously no. These people may have even never read Quran. They just believe what their leaders say. They say you'll go to heaven if you kill Americans but they won't. They're just uneducated people.

[kev-o]

Women bad. Women must cover:

1.) Legs

2,) Thighs

3.) Boobs

4.) Arms

5.) Shoulders

6.) Face

7.) Hair

8.) Eyes

9.) Feet

Women can corrupt the souls of men. Women bad. Most beat da women.

[PointOfViewGun]

Women bad. Women most cover:

1.) Legs

2,) Thighs

3.) Boobs

4.) Arms

5.) Shoulders

6.) Face

7.) Hair

8.) Eyes

9.) Feet

Women can corrupt the souls of men. Women bad. Most beat da women.

I thought we were going to have some intelligent argument here. My bad.

[drugpimp]

With the quotes given, how can the english translation be so far off as to have them be peaceful quotes. And you still havent convienced me about why so many muslism see the quran as a justification of the violent acts they do, if that is these quotes are in fact peaceful in arabic.

You really think the quran treats women fairly?

[PointOfViewGun]

With the quotes given, how can the english translation be so far off as to have them be peaceful quotes. And you still havent convienced me about why so many muslism see the quran as a justification of the violent acts they do, if that is these quotes are in fact peaceful in arabic.

You really think the quran treats women fairly?

How can you limit the whole Muslim population to only terrorists? That I cannot understand. There are Christian terrorists in this world. Does that means that all Christians are violant people? No.

Not even some of the numbers are correct.

[drugpimp]

How can you limit the whole Muslim population to only terrorists? That I cannot understand. There are Christian terrorists in this world. Does that means that all Christians are violant people? No.

Not even some of the numbers are correct.

Where did I limit muslims only to terrorists?

[PointOfViewGun]

How can you give a source that is one-sided from the start.

[Shaun]

Moved to ethos: as this is a religous discussion.

[Gary88]

how about i save everybody some time and sum up this entire thread.

person 1, "the Qu'ran condones violence, blah blah blah"

person 2, "yes but the bible also condones violence bla blah blah"

person 1 "ahh but in the bible it is a metaphor my little heathen friend blah blah blah"

person 3 "muslims are terrorists so islam condones terrorists"

person 2 "muslims are not islam itself just followers"

person 1 "ahh but i have Qu'ran verses showing it does support terrorism"

person 2 "well the first 2 are mis translated from arabic the 3 you have misinterpreted and as for the fourth...there are only 114 surahs in the Qu'ran yet that quote says it is surah 119...?"

person 4 "argh! you will never agree why dont you all shiut the **** up!!!!!"

[drugpimp]

how about i save everybody some time and sum up this entire thread.

person 1, "the Qu'ran condones violence, blah blah blah"

person 2, "yes but the bible also condones violence bla blah blah"

person 1 "ahh but in the bible it is a metaphor my little heathen friend blah blah blah"

person 3 "muslims are terrorists so islam condones terrorists"

person 2 "muslims are not islam itself just followers"

person 1 "ahh but i have Qu'ran verses showing it does support terrorism"

person 2 "well the first 2 are mis translated from arabic the 3 you have misinterpreted and as for the fourth...there are only 114 surahs in the Qu'ran yet that quote says it is surah 119...?"

person 4 "argh! you will never agree why dont you all shiut the **** up!!!!!"

This can be said about 99% of the topics in the mud pit. If you dont like it you are free to avoid this thread.

[Silver Guard]

Ok TDLS, heres an intelligent argument.
Look at the aboe quotes by dungpimp. They give many examples of incitement to violence in just a small selected amount of the Koran.

If a man started a new party, he has such things as human rights, peace to your neighbour and the reform of social security and the NHS high on his agenda to combat poverty and high mortality rates. However he also preaches that all who disagree with this point of view must be burned at the stake.
I'm taking it to extremes admittedly, but it's a reasonable analogy for the Koran, yes its a profound religious text with some very interesting verses, but it also preaches religious hatred and murder in the name of Allah. This is nothing to be proud of and completely undeniable.

Most Islamic militants have read the Koran over and over. Many can likely sprout religious verse in the same way we would say our name and age. It is simple matter of fact that indoctrinated Islam is dangerous by the very nature of it's text.

[kev-o]

And who can forget that Muhammad almost commited suicide....twice.

[PointOfViewGun]

And who can forget that Muhammad almost commited suicide....twice.

Suicide?

[Kiljan Arslan]

And who can forget that Muhammad almost commited suicide....twice.

Actually I consider that to be inspiring that he pulled himself around. How is it bad if he stoped himself from doing it?

[kev-o]

Actually I consider that to be inspiring that he pulled himself around. How is it bad if he stoped himself from doing it?

I don't think it is wise to follow a leader of a not so sound mind

"I thought about killing myself, but thought it best not to. But a friend of mine died so I think it is best to just off myself....but let me think about it more."