HA and Chariot Archers

[Oman]

Im sure weve all been there, our troops getting wasted away as those pesky ha or chariot archers fire away at us in their arrow dodging cantabrian circle.
I have tried huge archers numbers, ive tried jav cav, and various micro management to get rid of these formidable opponents, however nothing that works really well.

How do you counter them ? What strategy to you employ? Please only answer with online gaming and having a human opponent in mind.

[Whiskeyjack]

I don't honestly believe there is a reliable counter versus them, you basically have to rely on your opponent making a mistake. If the opponent is good you are in for a rough time.

The main problem is cantabarian circle which negates the troop type that should counter them(missiles), in fact i am not aware of any other unit in the game that there is not a counter for.

The only success i have had is using some cavalry to catch the HA while in cantabarian circle, though of course this only works if the opponent messes up. Similiar thing with chariot archers, javelin cavalry can work but its really dependant on the opponents mistake rather than anything you do.

[_TubbZ_]

They are probably the best troops in the game when it comes to low money games as they are so hard to kill, basically chasing them off with a few light cavalry while they are firing at your missiles (and your missiles are firing back) will normally get the player to take it out of CC. This will allow your missiles to hit them and kill a few (but isn't that successful).

I also find that slingers can be effective vs them too... Also strangley enough just chasing them can catch them well too, it may not be full proof but at some point they will get to the red line and as long as you catch them before something else comes after you, you will kill them...

[Whiskeyjack]

They are probably the best troops in the game when it comes to low money games as they are so hard to kill, basically chasing them off with a few light cavalry while they are firing at your missiles (and your missiles are firing back) will normally get the player to take it out of CC. This will allow your missiles to hit them and kill a few (but isn't that successful).

I also find that slingers can be effective vs them too... Also strangley enough just chasing them can catch them well too, it may not be full proof but at some point they will get to the red line and as long as you catch them before something else comes after you, you will kill them...

Thats interesting Tubbz, I wonder if slingers are perhaps better than archers because of the firing arc/missile speed, i will test that out. The only problem with chasing the HA i found is that the opponent typically has some heavy cavalry waiting for you to do just that so it may not always be advisable.

[_TubbZ_]

Thats interesting Tubbz, I wonder if slingers are perhaps better than archers because of the firing arc/missile speed, i will test that out. The only problem with chasing the HA i found is that the opponent typically has some heavy cavalry waiting for you to do just that so it may not always be advisable.

i mean if they do the ha lone ranger thing on you i used to do that to people and would lose them quickly if i had a mass cavalry chase after me

[Prince_of_Macedon]

Im sure weve all been there, our troops getting wasted away as those pesky ha or chariot archers fire away at us in their arrow dodging cantabrian circle.
I have tried huge archers numbers, ive tried jav cav, and various micro management to get rid of these formidable opponents, however nothing that works really well.

How do you counter them ? What strategy to you employ? Please only answer with online gaming and having a human opponent in mind.

This is something I'm still trying to figure out.

Anyways, against people with less experience, my modified Noob Circle (with Cretans) works wonders. But when I used it against you and Colossus at the Alexandros Tournament, I was beaten by your regular foot archers. So, I think if I work on my archer management, the modified Noob Circle (using Cretans) is a good way to go (if you don't have any chariots yourself).

[Commander_Vimes]

you could play the romans if its mp and just tesudo?

[Prince_of_Macedon]

you could play the romans if its mp and just tesudo?

The problem is that the testudo isn't safe in the rear. Humans will shoot you from behind.

[Roman Clone]

The problem is that the testudo isn't safe in the rear. Humans will shoot you from behind.

Thats just funny yet cruel.

All I heard was Velites and Javelin men. But In Skirmish mode, were they are bound to run straight into the chariots, they are going to get killed.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

The problem is that the testudo isn't safe in the rear. Humans will shoot you from behind.

Then just keep turning your front on them . Plus to get behind their archers will have to get somewhere behind your lines, thus they're an easy target.

[Space Wolves]

Usually how i deal with them is either, levy an all merc legion of ranged, or mounted ranged units to counter those units, elephants are especially helpful.


Setting your archers ammo to fire is also helpful in causing the chariots to panic.

[Prince_of_Macedon]

Then just keep turning your front on them . Plus to get behind their archers will have to get somewhere behind your lines, thus they're an easy target.

That's impossible. We're not talking about 1 Chariot Archer. We're talking multiple Chariot Archers. Typically, the Chariot Archers won't be shooting your heavy infantry until they've wiped out your archers. Then, they'll mop up.

So, if you're turning to face one Chariot Unit, there'll be another one hitting you from the other side.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

That's impossible. We're not talking about 1 Chariot Archer. We're talking multiple Chariot Archers. Typically, the Chariot Archers won't be shooting your heavy infantry until they've wiped out your archers. Then, they'll mop up.

So, if you're turning to face one Chariot Unit, there'll be another one hitting you from the other side.

But I've won multiple times against Chariot Archers. They tend to be lighter than Melee Chariots, and the Cantabrian Circle is effective against arrows but not if you're trying to flee from a light cavalry charge.

Use your cavalry to kill or pin the Chariots, while you bring the infantry to do the rest of the job. Most Cavalry will hold on 'till the infantry arrives.

[Subrosa Florens]

I have found that the best way to deal with horse archers is to have more of them than your enemy.

Failing that, a tactic I learned playing the Thracians in a battle against Scythia was to put one small unit out as bait to tempt the horse archers to come in close to attack it, and then rush them with cavalry from the sides. It is expensive, because the bait gets torn to shreds, but it works. It cannot be a strong unit either, because the HAs will not come in. It has to be something that they can overwhelm with relative ease.

A better trick is to use three light cavalry units to chase the horse archers in a sort of U shaped formation, with the open end toward the horse archers. The idea is to actually do the chasing with the cavalry at the center of the U, and come in from either side and to the rear to cut off their escape with the other two units. Not easy to pull off however.

[Evan_2009]

i mass british chariots when playing a ha faction

[Commander_Vimes]

could you get 2 tesudo units back to back?

[Prince_of_Macedon]

could you get 2 tesudo units back to back?

You could, but there's still a big enough gap for arrows to penetrate.

[_TubbZ_]

hmm you also need to realise that its not the AI we are talking about... Also only scythies rout from fire :/ and they aren't archer units

[Oman]

Hmmm, thanks all for replying, but it seems that you all have similar troubles to me with them. Of late, they have been less effective due to me attacking quickly, which at least gives them less time to do damage i suppose.

tubbz, i have tried a simular method with light horse and also tried running the unit that is being shot backwards, trying to force the char archers out of cant circle, thus becoming a hittable target for archers etc. What you have said and combining it with unit withdrawal has been the most effective counter, but in experienced hands still does not work well enough. I suppose that i should just accept that they are a very effective unit, maybe the attack method is the best way to counter their strength ?
Its one thing that they are very hard to hit and fast on the get away, but they also have so many god damn arrows, the chariot archers in particular.

[guyyug]

HA I chase away with light infantry, if a player is slow to realize the light cav coming for their HA I could rout a unit. But chasing them away is the most important in my opinion, I rather keep my lines intact.

Charoit archers i've no idea, ive never been able to defeat them, I won't even send cavalry at them incase they engage.