We will ever see respectable byzantine units?

[jo the greek]

Byzantium was one fo the most significant faction of the region if the armenians and georgia has own units then ROMAN EMPIRE deserves new designs and units like the heavy spearmen skutatoi and many more.

[AlphaDelta]

Jo, I don't want to seem presumptuous, and I hope you aren't offended by my question, but are you by any chance from Greece?

Cheers

[Ez-Zaghal]

greece (for ease of typing) already has a full unit roster, and its pretty nice one. some of the skin arnt great but hey, they still look ok. And new factions kinda need new units.

BUT if your adding units still can you add some mamluks with crossbows? cos i wd love some

Personnally i dont see greece as a the eastern roman empire after justinian, its just the byzantium/byzantine empire.

[teh.frickin.pope]

LOfrickinL

[jo the greek]

YEs i am from greece but by saying you are losing the point.
If petty states in the game have designs then the roman emprire composed from armenians albanians assyrians Lazs cappodocians turks bulgars slavs greeks what should have? Is a crime to represent byzantine like these is like the early legion with just one unit called roman infantry
or the turks janisaries with just a unit called turkish infantry. I read history and the byzantines are a bit abandoned by total war.

[Miraj]

YEs i am from greece but by saying you are losing the point.
If petty states in the game have designs then the roman emprire composed from armenians albanians assyrians Lazs cappodocians turks bulgars slavs greeks what should have? Is a crime to represent byzantine like these is like the early legion with just one unit called roman infantry
or the turks janisaries with just a unit called turkish infantry. I read history and the byzantines are a bit abandoned by total war.

Petty states? The thing with BC is that we have almost no petty states. All of our eastern factions were pretty large empires or kingdoms at one point or another.

A crime? No. But it takes time to do new rosters and if we keep adding more work for BC 1.0 this mod will never be finished. AlphaDelta has already done far more work than we had initially set out to do. A Byzantine redo, along with a western map expansion perhaps, will be for after 1.0 only. This is a 100% guarantee.

As for the details of a new BC Byzantine roster, that will be fleshed out in private among our trusted team members. To be perfectly honest, there is far too much fanboyism and pseudo-fetishism associated with the Byzantines for us to ever let the general forum-goers influence our decisions on this.

EDIT: And please dont write thread titles in caps-lock, its been changed.

[Mike13531]

A Byzantine redo, along with a western map expansion perhaps, will be for after 1.0 only. This is a 100% guarantee.

really? that's all i need to hear, i'm playing BC for sure!

[Ez-Zaghal]

all hail the never tiring BC crew, this mod is HUGE and is great, and your already looking to expand it

[jo the greek]

I decided to write this post here because i saw how serious job has be done here . And as the vanilia version neglected the byzantine and present them with a way just for the guys tha would play the game and didn't care I hoped that the brocken cresent that find and created units tha i never knew that existed would respect the byzantines .
Wich is more easy to find information about a byzantine unit or an armenian or a afgan or a african???????????? .
In these forums i have noticed that when someones proposes something or asks the guys that created the games mode are very offensive against him and even agressive(not reffering here).
To favor the byzantines isnot a matter of fanatism.
Is a matter of knowing history modern greeks do know a crap about byzantium here i noticed that the non greeks known
more about byzantines.Although modern greece is what remained from a dream of restoring the byzantium 1912- 1922
So if someones wants to ban those speak about byzantium is just a blind racist.
AND YOU THAT WROTE ABOUT GREEKS SUPPORTING THE BYZS ARE TOTTALY WRONG YOU WILL SEE THE FANS OF BYZS ARE MORE FOREIGNERS.
A SIMPLE ANSWEAR LIKE WE DIDN'T HAVE TIME WOULD BE MORE LOGIC.

[teh.frickin.pope]

Yes, but in a mod there must be priorities. Making a new Byzantine roster is a lower tier priority than say, creating the roster of an entirely new faction, or balancing the battle system, or accomplishing the thousand-odd tasks that need to be completed before release.

*disclaimer: I am not a member of BC, thus this response is based off observations of the team members opinions; and should not be viewed as official.

[Manuel Komnenos]

The byzantine roster is in plan, but it wouldn't be in first version. I love saying this - Mirage?

[Ahiga]

Byzantium was one fo the most significant faction of the region if the armenians and georgia has own units then ROMAN EMPIRE deserves new designs and units like the heavy spearmen skutatoi and many more.

Well first off, Skoutatoi sound like they were anything but heavy spearmen.

They sound much lighter, and if we feature them will probably be in between sergeants, and armored sergeants.

Byzantium has been put on the sidelines for now for a few reasons, as teh.frickin.pope has mentioned:

• How many mods are focusing on them, or have already featured something for them?
  1. Laca's Spearmen
  2. DG's Reskin
  3. White Wolf's Units.
  4. If/When it is Released, MTR strikes me as giving a strong presence to the Byzantines. It's their full fledged roster that has been an inspiration for research, after all.
  5. A number more. Like MA, The Gathering Storm, ect.

How many are featuring Georgia? Armenia? Ghazni? Ghorids? Rajputs? Makuria? A priority placed on a re-done Turks or Egypt? How many are doing Khwarezmia, or the Abbasids?

Factions who are brand new took priority over those that did not. This is why we didn't touch the Rum Turks for 1.0, and why we were originally going to just let Egypt remain vanilla, and the KoJ remain their reskin. The mistake being made is that you think our mod is focused on the fights of Byzantium and the Turks in Anatolia. This is merely one theater in our entire mod. It would be like suggesting MTR exclude work on anything until Scotland/France/England are done. Here's the theaters, or affairs which are our mod's focus:

• Anatolia: Byzantium, Georgia, Rum Turks, Armenia
• Steppe: Georgia, Byzantium, the Kypchaks.
• Levant: Armenia, KoJ, Ayyubids
• Caucasus: Seljuks, Rum Turks, Georgia, Armenia, Kypchaks.
• Iraq: Abbasids, Seljuks
• Eastern Iran: Khwarezmia, Ghaznavids, Ghorids.
• India: Rajputs, Ghorids, Ghaznavids.
• Africa: Makuria, Ayyubids.

So we have to work on all of those, and prioritize them accordingly.

Byzantium was an important faction. But it was not the important one. Where their involvement in the region was [in the big picture] on the decline after Manuel's death, the involvement of the Georgians, Armenians, and others was on the rise. None of our factions are petty and it is ignorant to claim they are. I'll tell you what's the true crime. That people seem to treat the East as nothing more than a proving grounds for Byzantium to beat up some enemies in. When Europe was pretty much still climbing out of the dark ages, it was only Asia and Byzantium which were truly civilized. But it's treated as though it were only Byzantium which was. That's the true crime.

I look forward to playing Byzantium. I preferred them in Barbarain Invasion's Mods of the setting. They are an interesting crossroads of West and East, and have some of the coolest looking units in history and a fun history. But it's not the only faction I am interested in.

We will work on Byzantium on our own clock, at our own pace, with our own designs. They will be treated like our other faction's were, because that is what they were - another political power in the Near East. They are not the focus of our mod. No faction is. The Region is, the factions within it are.

But to try and drive this topic in a more positive direction, any artwork had of Byzantine units that we could use would be very valuable. Osprey is pretty much covered, I'm not sure we necessarily need anything from them. But other sources would be great.

In particular, I'd personally like to see more that invoke an eastern inspiration, rather than western (Which is the norm). Such as this one:

[Valdamar]

Amen!

The fanboyism for the "B" faction become so bad at the EU III forum that the "B" word could get you an instaban.

[Tadzreuli]

I think in next versions of mod not only Byzantian will alter, but also Georgians and Sultanat of Rum too

[Miraj]

What exactly are you talking about? I'm completely confused at what or who you're exactly responding to.

Please re-write your message and:

a) Write it in normal sized and colored font.
b) Specify which comments you are exactly responding to.
c) Calm down.

At this point I don't get at all where you're coming from, and its only reinforcing my view that when it comes to the Byzantines the fanboyism is can be quite scary.

I think I made clear above that we intend and want to re-do Byzantium for Broken Crescent. So what exactly is the problem?

[The Mongol]

Whoa, if a forum post could be an explosion, that would be one.


@mirage: "is can be", getting late there buddy?

[Bernem]

I don't understand how people can yell at the modders for not fulfilling their very own personal wishes about one faction.... if everytime as a wish appears it should've been fulfilled, then we would have to wait for BC till Ca brings out Medieval 5 or so!!! So get down and let the team do their work!

[Manuel Komnenos]

Somebody please even delete the above BIG LETTER post, or change the size of font. It's scary.

[John I Tzimisces]

This is ridiculous. Multiple times team members and fans of the mod alike have posted that post version 1 there will be a revision of the byzantine roster which implies there will be new skins, new units, new models for the byzantines. Crimony.

[Hounf of Culan]

Dragons you say....