Defending a siege? with...PARTHIA???

[SuleymanGroznii]

I've never really had to defend a siege in any of my games before, but now -- playing as Parthia -- I'm about 20 years into a game and just took the seleucid city to the east after they started a war. Now Bactria is attacking too (I've beaten 5-6 Seleucid armies, and killed at least that many of their family members in battle, so I'm not too worried about them right now...heheh) and I have no clue what to do.

I've started a few defenses and just got lost. I hired mercenary infantry to help out, but everything just seems impossible (I'm also doing it on the first turn, so I don't have to deal with any of their siege equipment). For instance sending soldiers out through my gates; does this allow the enemy army in if they can get to that point, or do the gates close again?

anybody have tips on defending a siege? Please?!

[Marcus Camillus]

As long as your troops go through the gates with no enemy troops near the gates, then the gates will close. If enemy troops are near, don't open the gates or the enemy troops will follow your troops through the open gates.

If a raiding party is returning from a raid on the siege equipment of the enemy, and enemy troops are closely following, you may need to sacrifice a unit to delay the enemy so that your other troops can re-enter the city safely. Cavalry can sometimes make a good raiding force since they can out run infantry.

[The Walrus]

As long as your troops go through the gates with no enemy troops near the gates, then the gates will close. If enemy troops are near, don't open the gates or the enemy troops will follow your troops through the open gates.

If a raiding party is returning from a raid on the siege equipment of the enemy, and enemy troops are closely following, you may need to sacrifice a unit to delay the enemy so that your other troops can re-enter the city safely. Cavalry can sometimes make a good raiding force since they can out run infantry.

Well if its cavalry as Parthian, they could also use their mobility to go into a side gate. While this will be slower, less soldiers would be lost under some conditions. Depends on the variables though

[tony_blair_doa]

i believe in the area you are in there is a eastern levy spearmen unit capable of phlanax, get them or an equivilant for garrisoning cities. The easiest way to win sieges when you have crap infantry is to use the town square where your morale is boosted to create a defense, with archers behind your phlanxe line firing flaming arrows to weaken enemy morale you should hopefully be able to make the enemy rout.
presuming you have horse archers send them out a side gate far away from the enemy hopefully drawing units towards them and away from the city. Doing this will mean that rather than all the enemy attacking the town square at once they will attack in small groups and be unable to simply overpower you with numbers.
I wouldn't bother defending walls, you have no units capable of holding them, especially if hypinsyists (no idea how to spell it) are within the enemy army (the elite guys in small units). As parthia though the best defense is simply to not fight in cities and use your horse archers to full effect in field battles

[SuleymanGroznii]

i believe in the area you are in there is a eastern levy spearmen unit capable of phlanax, get them or an equivilant for garrisoning cities. The easiest way to win sieges when you have crap infantry is to use the town square where your morale is boosted to create a defense, with archers behind your phlanxe line firing flaming arrows to weaken enemy morale you should hopefully be able to make the enemy rout.
presuming you have horse archers send them out a side gate far away from the enemy hopefully drawing units towards them and away from the city. Doing this will mean that rather than all the enemy attacking the town square at once they will attack in small groups and be unable to simply overpower you with numbers.
I wouldn't bother defending walls, you have no units capable of holding them, especially if hypinsyists (no idea how to spell it) are within the enemy army (the elite guys in small units). As parthia though the best defense is simply to not fight in cities and use your horse archers to full effect in field battles

That not only sounds like great advice, it sounds like fun.

Playing as Rome before I never fully appreciated how lame sieges are, but playing as Parthia really makes me sympathize with Napoleon for hating them so much. I mean, ya don't choose Parthia so you can lose half a unit squeezing through a gate! Ya choose Parthia because you like the Monopoly part of the game and want a challenge (a really sick, masochistic challenge...I'm surprised they didn't just make the cost of the Elite Cavalry Stables some kind of human sacrifice and/or prostitution!!! I want my Kataphracts!!! arrghgh! And why give me one unit at the beginning when I can barely afford them and can't retrain them!?), and because you like showing off how you can take out fully stacked armies -- even outnumbered 4-1 -- with a handful of casualties.

ahh...how I love Parthia...

[Furin]

With a faction so dependand on horse archers and cavallery I recommend leaving the majority of your army outside the city but not right next to it but in a range that allows you to attack a besieging army. Best would be in a different territory as the AI will miscalculate the territory strengh and attack the town more often but with smaller stacks.

If you have the horse archers inside the city you can attack the besieging army too, they will try to get to the high ground in front of your city, most of the time to the right of the gate. While their phalanxes move there slowly you can quickly run your horse archers out of the city and shoot in their backs. If you cause enough casualities the enemy army will retreat and you can kill even more from behind while they are running away.

If they attack you there is not much you can do against the phalanxes as they are always facing you and your arrows will be useless. The pathfinding within cities is pretty bad so it is almost impossible to outmanouver them on the city streets. Best to avoid being attacked at all, either by attacking yourself or attacking with an army and using the city garrison as backup.

[piko]

You have to defend as Parthia???? What did you do? I usually go Southeast immediately, after about 25 heroic victories I had taken the heartland of the Seleucids and was unbeatable.

[MasterOfThessus]

Raiding party? I've never thougth of that before.... but what do you do when you have succeded and withdraw back into the citie? End the battle? Wouldn't that make you loose the battle?

[The Walrus]

Raiding party? I've never thougth of that before.... but what do you do when you have succeded and withdraw back into the citie? End the battle? Wouldn't that make you loose the battle?

If I recall correctly it becomes a "draw"

[Mojopin]

Place some archers over the gate to take out the main gate ram, put the rest of your dudes on the walls, place all your cavalery near another gate to the side and flank the siegers. Eazy peazy lemon squeazy, I've never been successfully laid sieged.

It's hard to defend yourself when you're putting up ladders, also, the generals and cavalery rarely involve themselves when you're flanking their ground troops during a siege.

Edit: IMO, you don't need any defense except the main gate, you'll easily kill off any siege towers or rams not going to your main gate with some cavalery.

[svramj]

Hmmmm.....When Playing as Parthia you should depend on the Persian Phalanx Pikemen......Hire up to two Pikes per city and place them right in front of the gates ....the gates must open and the spear pointing outside.....the enemy wont use the Ram.....and place your captain or general behind the phalanx to encourage them....u'll see none enters the gate.......

[G_the_Great]

Take as many men into the city as you can. If you have a few regular archers you stand a chance against siege weapons and can afford to wait, otherwise sally as soon as possible.

Take whatever cavalry units you have outside of a side gate and keep all your in front of the enemy. I have noticed that the enemy *tends* to run away and meet you out in the open (as much open as there is around your city) if you sally so you can use this to your advantage.

If they run then move your infantry to a safe distance outside your walls and pwn them with any cavalry (I assume you have some units of horse archers) while your infantry watches (yes they can cheer them on). Finish them with your infantry.

If they don't run then use your cavalry to flank them.

If you don't have any cavalry then DON'T sally. (prepare to die fool)

If you don't have any infantry then you can try to sally but beware that they have to help your horse archers from getting in a pickle and keep your casualties low (as a percentage of your troops).

If you only have a few troops (say 5 cards or less) then prepare to die (unless you can get reinforcements).

Any questions?

[tony_blair_doa]

as fun as parthia are simply can't face another horse archer faction, it just takes so ridiculously long to finish battles. Especially annoying iswhen you forget to take skirimish mode off so your men run off when appproached into another enemy unit... or even worse is when you take skirmish mode off and forget about the unit until you realise they are being slaughtered by infantry thats moonwalked up to them while your looking elsewhere.
Remember if you have a horde of horse archers near by to attack the seiging army, fire all your arrows then run off with no casualties, don't use a general so he doesn't get the blame for the lose. Doing this can cut the siegers down.
Would also advise you aim to take babylon, the farm bonus is great for smaller inland factions

[SuleymanGroznii]

as fun as parthia are simply can't face another horse archer faction, it just takes so ridiculously long to finish battles. Especially annoying iswhen you forget to take skirimish mode off so your men run off when appproached into another enemy unit... or even worse is when you take skirmish mode off and forget about the unit until you realise they are being slaughtered by infantry thats moonwalked up to them while your looking elsewhere.
Remember if you have a horde of horse archers near by to attack the seiging army, fire all your arrows then run off with no casualties, don't use a general so he doesn't get the blame for the lose. Doing this can cut the siegers down.
Would also advise you aim to take babylon, the farm bonus is great for smaller inland factions

I just assumed that I should make alliances with Sarmatia and Co., and keep all of us happy. Armenia doesn't seem to like that idea though.

I like that idea about horse archers for draining the army, then running away. Sounds like actual, legitimate horse tactics! That's one of the things I love about the game; even if you can't lead the enemies for days on end in a feigned retreat, you can at least pretend that you are

Since this post, I've had good luck stationing most of my garrison just outside the city when I see a siege coming (if I can't send a separate army in time, or if they're too far away to just attack them with part of my garrison and have enough movement left to have them back in the city afterward)

I also pulled off a siege with very few casualties using 3 horse archer units (who were pretty beat up, one of them had like 38 guys left I think), 2 Persian archers, my faction leader, and another general. Granted there were only 2 units of pezoi and a unit of those elite swordsmen, but I think it should still be possible to pull off with more enemies too (especially if there are no skirmishers).

i built one sapping machine, put the unit of archers in it, and once the wall crumbled, the archers were able to chase off the pezoi. I sent my general in first to one side of the town square, my other family member to the other side, alternated the horse archers, then sent the archers to their left of the town square (so they hit the right side of whoever is in the square).
basically just barrage the guys until one goes on the offensive, and take them out with the generals (or kataphracts if you got em) one they do. (I also had the cavalry in column formations beforehand so they'd get through the wall a lot more efficiently.)

the only real casualties I had were from the archers
getting pelted by the towers. I'll probably send them in or away from the wall a lot sooner next time.

[tony_blair_doa]

cool, glad you like the tactic.Just be careful you know what way your horse archers retreat.I've ended many a battle without routing a test unit to see which side of the screen they'll run off. i've lost armys due to laziness, embarassingly snatching defeat from the jaws of victory as i hit withdraw, bugger off to make a cup o' tea... then realise my army had ran straight through the enemy rather than heading the other way as common sense would have suggested... never trust the ai

[SuleymanGroznii]

"You have to defend as Parthia???? What did you do? I usually go Southeast immediately, after about 25 heroic victories I had taken the heartland of the Seleucids and was unbeatable."

This is my second game with Parthia, and on both (the first was with Vanilla RTW+RTR 6.0 Gold whatever, the second is with RTW/BI and Plat 1.9) I've been invaded right off the bat by Bactria. I avoided war in both (by putting armies out by the Bactrian armies in my territory), but in the second, Seleucids turned on me a little later.

After wiping out at least 5 really stacked armies (and plenty of their family members), i saw Sel. diplomats in Bactria, then got invaded again. Argh. Totally frustrating. Hence the siege; it was that city in the mountains (that takes like 5-6 turns for infantry to get to...) too. Totally frustrating. I got through it though.

[Juba1]

with PARTHIA no defense, just attack, always attack with PARTHIA, chargez...

[Companion Cavalry]

all you need is 4 groups of archers with flaming arrows the gate (2 each side), if the gate has been blown

open in a different siege, block with pikemen if there are holes in the walls do

the same.


if they attack from multiple flanks just repeat the defense but have only 2 archers at each gate 1 on each side

edit: you may need a few cavalry units if the enemies have siege weapons that can hit your archers or


pikemen or if the enemies have a host of archers themselves that outnumber yours




Now for a parthian defense ride out with heavy cavalry and go far behind the enemy while they go and concentrate on the gate and

quickly charge from behind, if pikemen were present you would need to finish of everyone else with strike-and-run warfare and bring a

few horse archer units to shower them with arrows


edit: if the arrows don't work you can undo the skirmish mode on one horse archer units and attack the remianing pikemen from the

front and charge them with heavy cavalry from behind while they're distracted

[Mr_Ace]

Do exactly what Svramj has excellently stated. Place your 2 pikemen units right at the main gate horizontally like that of a shape of an arrow, when the arrow is pointing down with it's tip towards the bottom. So the enemy should charge straight towards the space created by your units, which in turn will make them lose momentum and their formation. Here is an example of what I'am referring to.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KkLfK41P8GA

And also, when in a dire situation where the enemy has already captured the city walls, resort to the same scenario in my above statement. The main weakness of a siege is, they have to pour their troops singlefile through a very narrow passageway like the gateway. They will have to resort to this "Singlefile" march, since if the enemy rushes into the gate with 3 or more units, they will get mashed up and what is left of their formation will come apart. And it will take a considerable amount of time for those 2-3 units to squeeze through gateway in time to react to the defense of the defenders awaiting them at the gate.

Make sure you place fresh reserves alongside or just behind the main lines of your phalanx....in case they break, which may be or may not be probable. OR you can simple make it 2 units per horizontal line, if your soldier's numbers are dwindled. If you pelstats or missile troops, I would place them behind the lines as well, as well as your General to encourage his men on.

[svramj]

Do exactly what Svramj has excellently stated. Place your 2 pikemen units right at the main gate horizontally like that of a shape of an arrow, when the arrow is pointing down with it's tip towards the bottom. So the enemy should charge straight towards the space created by your units, which in turn will make them lose momentum and their formation. Here is an example of what I'am referring to.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KkLfK41P8GA

And also, when in a dire situation where the enemy has already captured the city walls, resort to the same scenario in my above statement. The main weakness of a siege is, they have to pour their troops singlefile through a very narrow passageway like the gateway. They will have to resort to this "Singlefile" march, since if the enemy rushes into the gate with 3 or more units, they will get mashed up and what is left of their formation will come apart. And it will take a considerable amount of time for those 2-3 units to squeeze through gateway in time to react to the defense of the defenders awaiting them at the gate.

Make sure you place fresh reserves alongside or just behind the main lines of your phalanx....in case they break, which may be or may not be probable. OR you can simple make it 2 units per horizontal line, if your soldier's numbers are dwindled. If you pelstats or missile troops, I would place them behind the lines as well, as well as your General to encourage his men on.

Nice Tactics....