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  1. #1

    Default Stele 1

    Hey and welcome to our EB2 forum.

    As for thread title, we've decided to call it Stele instead of Developer Diary. Just to keep it a bit "EBish". Name might be subject to change though.

    This will hopefully be the first in a series of “almost-weekly” news updates I will be writing about the progress on EB2.

    As of now, very little work has been actually done on EB2 from a pure modding perspective as we haven’t begun fiddling a lot with the files yet. However it’s an altogether different matter when it comes to research and our main focus has been on which ten new factions to choose and checking out what features Medieval 2: Total War has that Rome: Total War does not have and can/will we use them.

    The first thing we will mod in will be the map itself and it will be the new map which will be in the next EB1 release and which was previewed some weeks ago. But that does not mean the map is forever “locked”. There will probably be more changes to province borders, city locations and so on and Iberia will most probably be redrawn province wise.

    If you are going to redraw Iberia why aren’t you doing it for EB1 too?
    Easy, we want to finish EB1 and that means finishing some aspects of the mod so we can free up manpower for EB2 and this includes the map. We can also mention that the remaining traits & ancillaries that are concepted will be added, but from there on only the most important trait/ancillary ideas will be added to EB, because as stated earlier we want most people to work on EB2. Some stuff like voicemods will be added later to EB1 as there is not much work needed to be done updating text files.


    We have already chosen seven out of ten factions and are discussing heavily the three remaining ones. There have been many discussions on the public forums about which factions people would want to see in EB2 and it is fun for us to see the different candidates suggested and talked about. We won’t release any info on which factions we have chosen…yet.
    However I think we could mention two factions which did not make it in and the reasons why. This so you have two less choices to worry about :wink:

    Mauryan Empire:
    The Mauryan capital Pataliputra is FAR to the east of our map, along with almost all of the empire itself. Having a massive empire that is only marginally on our map is not “endorsed”, you can say by EB. Portraying Mauryans accurately would be much harder with most of the empire itself outside the EB map and which brings us to another point. Some say we could scrap a few provinces and use them to add India. That would make EB unhistorical, as we would fail to portray the different cultures as unbiased as we can. At this point in history India was probably the most populated region in the world and if we would use as many provinces on India as we would let’s say Asia Minor, it wouldn’t be an accurate and fair portrayal of India would it? India would require MANY provinces if we were to have some relation between India and the rest of map when it comes to provinces, population, settlements and geographical size.

    Jewish faction:
    We know people love the Jews and would want a Maccabean faction. Here is the deal though. The Maccabeans revolted a century after the game start. They would be an emerging faction which is something EB has decided not to have. If we did, you could bet Yuezhi would be in. Another thing is that the Jews would only control Judea and the consensus from reading sources is that the Jews would most likely be happy just to have Judea and not try to subjugate other nations or peoples, at least not on the scale that is in Total War games. We might add some more unrest to Judea, although the Jews seemed to have lived well enough under the Seleukids (before Antiochos IV of course) & Ptolemies before, as they were granted royal charters recognizing their rights.

    As mentioned we have also been checking the new features of M2TW and we already have ideas for guilds and religion. But we can mention those another time. For now I’ll write about crusades & jihads (hey, I need to have some material for the coming weeks!!)

    Our idea so far, or at least the idea most mentioned, is to use crusades and/or jihads to represent Migrations. With these some factions, most notably the Sweboz & Saka could launch “Jihads” into a province which represents migrations. It is just on the concept stage for now, but we will check if crusades require a Papacy faction or if we can use Jihads outside imams. On a sidenote, some of our factions will probably be made into Horde factions, so if they are defeated they can take their people and find other lands.

    And to finish this off, it seems we can chop out chunks of script code and free up building complexes as we can apparently represent military reforms VERY easily using event triggers which will make reforms so much easier...hopefully.

    Until next time,
    Krusader


  2. #2

    Default Re: Stele 1

    How Difficult will it be to transfer EB onto the medieval 2:TW engine?

    I ask this because M2:TW is basically a mod of the Rome engine just a big one

    Will everything have to be reskinned,Re-coded,re-animated etc or will the code you used on R:TW also be easily implanted On M2:TW?

    Best of luck on EB2, EB1 is my favorite R:TW mod

    Also On the faction debate, i would really like the kingdom of Numidia included as it stops Carthage from easily controlling West africa so easily and has some unique units that would be fun to play,

    also another Iberian faction would be good to show how Iberia was rife with civil wars and disunity as having both the adeui and the averni in gaul made things more intresting and realistic
    Last edited by Death Merchant; August 03, 2007 at 09:12 PM.

  3. #3
    megaflus's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Stele 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Death Merchant View Post

    Will everything have to be reskinned,Re-coded,re-animated etc or will the code you used on R:TW also be easily implanted On M2:TW?
    the codes can be transfered over to m2, it's mostly models and anims and that sort of thing that they will have to redo.

    best of luck to you guys

  4. #4

    Default Re: Stele 1

    Curious, but what will the religions of MTWII be utilized as?

  5. #5
    Zaknafien's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Stele 1

    lots of discussion in the developer forum about this. most likely, I think we'll end up using it to represent culture with the hard-coded limit of..what, 7 religions? that could more accurately represent culture than the myriad religons we'd have to include to be accurate.

    Rome Total Realism VII Roman Faction Historical Advisor

    It is foolish to incur danger for small results; He must be considered a reckless general who would fight before there is any need, while a good one takes risks only in cases of necessity." ---Publivs Cornelivs Scipio Aemilianvs Afrivanvs Numantinvs

  6. #6

    Default Re: Stele 1

    wow, been a while since i came aroudn these forums but saw this and my heart skipped a beat! Best of luck in this project - I look forward to your updates with great enthusiasm!

    Myrmedon

  7. #7

    Default Re: Stele 1

    hey megaflus
    Is that avatar really you ??
    Vlaanderen de leeuw

  8. #8

    Default Re: Stele 1

    You are completely wrong. Medieval II Total War does not use the Rome Total War engine. They are completely different games so there is not a single file in RTW that is visually used in M2TW. Everything will have to be redone and nothing important can be taken from Rome Total War.

    Quote Originally Posted by Death Merchant View Post
    How Difficult will it be to transfer EB onto the medieval 2:TW engine?

    I ask this because M2:TW is basically a mod of the Rome engine just a big one

    Will everything have to be reskinned,Re-coded,re-animated etc or will the code you used on R:TW also be easily implanted On M2:TW?

    Best of luck on EB2, EB1 is my favorite R:TW mod

    Also On the faction debate, i would really like the kingdom of Numidia included as it stops Carthage from easily controlling West africa so easily and has some unique units that would be fun to play,

    also another Iberian faction would be good to show how Iberia was rife with civil wars and disunity as having both the adeui and the averni in gaul made things more intresting and realistic

  9. #9

    Default Re: Stele 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Dea Paladin View Post
    You are completely wrong. Medieval II Total War does not use the Rome Total War engine. They are completely different games so there is not a single file in RTW that is visually used in M2TW. Everything will have to be redone and nothing important can be taken from Rome Total War.
    I'm sorry, but in all sincerity you are very much wrong. In many parts you could copy large chunks of code from data files in RTW and put them into MTW2 without ruining the game in anyway. The only place where this isn't the case is the battlefield engine, which uses slightly different file formats due to the use of multiple body parts to create units (rather than the clone armies of RTW).

    Foot
    EBII Mod Leader
    Hayasdan Faction Co-ordinator

  10. #10

    Default Re: Stele 1

    sounds good, only thing im going to throw out there is that your going to have to do the testudo formation almost from scratch as is fubared in m2tw. but gl

  11. #11

    Default Re: Stele 1

    About the Maruyan Empire: Yay! Good choice in eliminating them!

    About the Maccabean faction: NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! (Okay, done complaining.)

    BTW, have you guys considered adding Galatia and Cyrene as factions? After all, Galatia did have all of Asia Minor under its thumb for a while and was an area from which the Diadochoi drew many mercs. Although technically Cyrene was under Ptolemaic control, it was more or less autonomous, would be good as a buffer state between Carthage and Ptolomaic Egypt, and could use virtually the same units as the KH. Just a thought
    Is minic a gheibhean beal oscailt diog dunta!
    An open mouth often catches a closed fist!

  12. #12

    Default Re: Stele 1

    Cyrene will probably not be in, due to that there are several candidates which seem to have a better claim to faction slot.

    If we are to include Galatia it will be as the Bithynia-Galatian Koinon. Basically their unit roster would be Thracians, Hellenic hoplites/pikemen & Galatians.


  13. #13
    Dismounted H@Xx0rZ's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Stele 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusader View Post
    Cyrene will probably not be in, due to that there are several candidates which seem to have a better claim to faction slot.

    If we are to include Galatia it will be as the Bithynia-Galatian Koinon. Basically their unit roster would be Thracians, Hellenic hoplites/pikemen & Galatians.
    Sounds formidable to me.
    Current Threat Level:


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  14. #14

    Default Re: Stele 1

    Just a faction proposition: Two Numidians, three Iberians (plus Lusotanan), Siracuse, Pergamum, another Germam, (If casse stays, Irish would be a choice).

  15. #15

    Default Re: Stele 1

    You realize Pergamon is the only faction east of the Aegean sea on your list, and that's its also the only one east of Italy?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Stele 1

    Yeah!!! I am kind of a Carthage x Rome conflict fan and I believe that the Diadoci are already very good represented. I fell like alone when I play Sweboz or Casse. Besides, adding Numidians would make possible to stop Carthage growing too soon, would allow Romans to make alliance with one of them in order to stop Carthage. Adding Syracuse would allow a deeper environment in the Sicily wars since it would not be only Carthage x Rome, it would have Epirus and Syracuse. In Iberia, well, it would allow the Gallic factions to evolve without fear of the Iberian front, would allow some resistance to Carthage and some diplomacy background to everyone who wishes to fight there.
    I would vote for an emerging faction - Galatians

    PS, remember there are ten new slots and I only proposed eight, besides I know that EB team would not adopt so many factions in so small places, I believe they are more inclined to use the EB 1 map with little twists.
    Tell me about your list.

  17. #17
    megaflus's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Stele 1

    I don't think that syrakuse and pergamon will be implimented because they were to small and never counqured that much land, they would have one city and the other factions would crush them easaly and it would be ahistorical if they toke big parts of europe. It would be better to have a faction near the selucids so that they wont grow to big

  18. #18

    Default Re: Stele 1

    Quote Originally Posted by megaflus View Post
    I don't think that syrakuse and pergamon will be implimented because they were to small and never counqured that much land, they would have one city and the other factions would crush them easaly and it would be ahistorical if they toke big parts of europe. It would be better to have a faction near the selucids so that they wont grow to big
    Yeh it becomes really unrealistic when they become huge on mods like Roma serrectum

  19. #19

    Default Re: Stele 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusader View Post
    Jewish faction:
    We know people love the Jews and would want a Maccabean faction. Here is the deal though. The Maccabeans revolted a century after the game start. They would be an emerging faction which is something EB has decided not to have. If we did, you could bet Yuezhi would be in. Another thing is that the Jews would only control Judea and the consensus from reading sources is that the Jews would most likely be happy just to have Judea and not try to subjugate other nations or peoples, at least not on the scale that is in Total War games. We might add some more unrest to Judea, although the Jews seemed to have lived well enough under the Seleukids (before Antiochos IV of course) & Ptolemies before, as they were granted royal charters recognizing their rights.
    Currect me if I'm wrong, but the Armenians and Numidians weren't all about subjecting other nations either, and the germans were just a bunch of tribes. A Jewish\Macabean faction would make more sense than many factions in TW. They did expend their borders by war, BTW. Not by much though.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Stele 1

    Quote Originally Posted by tFighterPilot View Post
    Currect me if I'm wrong, but the Armenians and Numidians weren't all about subjecting other nations either, and the germans were just a bunch of tribes. A Jewish\Macabean faction would make more sense than many factions in TW. They did expend their borders by war, BTW. Not by much though.
    Dude, not even by a long shot. Armenia and Numidia managed to expand themselves quite well all things considered. And no, the Germans weren't "just a bunch of tribes". Many were organized into tribal confederations. The foremost of these was the Swebiz confederacy that managed to make itself quite powerful and influential in its region. Compared to these, Jerusalem was a backwater town with a minuscule population whose economy was based on the pilgrimage of other Jews spread out across the Fertile Crescent, Asia Minor, and Egypt. There is no possible, conceivable way that a Jewish faction would be able to exist in EB. Ever.

    And that is without taking into consideration what type of army they could field. Trust me, it is far from impressive.

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