Greek Hoplitoi: no plangists?!

[Scorn]

I've just installed Rome Total Realism Platinum 1.9. I wanted to start with the Greek City faction (very hard, huh?) and I'm shocked! For example, there are some units called Hoplitai (Levy) and Hoplitai. Their unit description says that they are phalanx units; gameplay disagrees. The only Greek City units that actually do fight using the phalanx is the Epirote Phalangite.

Why?`It spoils the whole Greek City faction and I bet it is NOT historical:
"were a citizen-militia, and so were armed as spearmen, and assumed a phalanx formation, which are relatively easy to equip and maintain"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoplite

[Solaris]

You've just answered your own question.

"and so were armed as spearmen" Meaning they have spears, not phalanxes ( like the Epirote Phalangite ). "And they assumed a phalanx formation" this does not mean they carried the long spears, it means they overlapped their shields and stayed in close formation.

[Angmar_nite]

YOu are only thinking phalanx in the Macedonian sense of the word. The Greek one was a far more mobile one which utilized shorter spears. The Macedonian one is the one with 21 feet long spears marching in a solid block.

[Herpes]

I bet it is NOT historical:

Great line. It sounds so much better than, "I really dont know if it is historical or not, but I want to argue that it isnt."

At this time the Classic Greek Hoplite armies (overlaped hoplon sheilds, overhand spear grip) had been soundly crushed by the new Macedonian phalanx (18-21ft sarrissa's, double underhand spear grip) and Cavalry combination. Some Greeks experimented with this new style, while others maintained the old way, while still others tried to meet half way.

Pyrrhus (King of Epirus) was the cousin of Alexander the Great, and had visions of world conquest. Therefore he fully adopted the Macedonian Phalanx and combined arms approach.

The best way to represent the greek hoplite formation IMHO is like in RTRPE 1.9 only with the sheild wall formation avaliable.

[piko]

I agree with Herpes, I believe a lot of the Greek City States, bound by tradition, used the traditional phalanx, but that there were some who had already adopted the new Alexandrian phalanx, this is an assumption BTW, so if anyone has good sources please go ahead and post them.

[KALI]

Considering it was the Thebans and folk like Epominandas (excuse the spelling) who pioneered the longer spear and and smaller shield I'm a little surprised there aren't more long speared variants in the Greek arsenal. Philip (Alexanders dad) lived with Epominandas as a youth which is where he's supposed to have got the idea for his new style of warfare. Even the Spartans started training some units with the sarrisa and pelta's in the late 4th.

[Grothaal]

Now, spears aside, why the spartans at early game dress like they where using red 'babydolls' and a cone overhead ?

Dont know if its historical, but sure dont sound a good way for a soldier to dress, lol.


Now, seriously, when figthing with the greeks against the macedonians, the formations sometimes look 'imobile', like when I sent My hoplites to attack the macedonian phalanx flank, they dont 'circle' the enemy, but keep the formation witch makes only a small number of the soldiers actually figth. Shouldnt they kinda of overlap the enemy and suround them figthing in all points of contact possible?

[pannonian]

Now, spears aside, why the spartans at early game dress like they where using red 'babydolls' and a cone overhead ?

Dont know if its historical, but sure dont sound a good way for a soldier to dress, lol.


Now, seriously, when figthing with the greeks against the macedonians, the formations sometimes look 'imobile', like when I sent My hoplites to attack the macedonian phalanx flank, they dont 'circle' the enemy, but keep the formation witch makes only a small number of the soldiers actually figth. Shouldnt they kinda of overlap the enemy and suround them figthing in all points of contact possible?

Take off guard mode. In guard mode, the unit maintains its position and formation as best as they can, which can mean only a small number of soldiers actually get to fight. When guard mode is off, the men in the unit manoeuvre themselves around the enemy. When you want a unit to keep its position so you don't have to bother with them for a while (eg. you don't want them chasing after the routing enemy), guard mode is wanted, especially as it's less tiring. If you want the unit to attack, guard mode off is preferable.

[Grothaal]

hum, will try that way

but still dont likew the spartans red dresses, lol

[Angmar_nite]

Caius Brittanicus has new Spartan skins. Don't know if they are available for individual download, but they are in the extended realism mod.

[Mr_Ace]

There is much difference between the Greek style of phalanx, matched to the Macedonian style of phalanx as the gentlemen in the previous posts have explained with much depth and emphasis.

[Companion Cavalry]

The original phalanx is less crowded and can charge, also less vulnerable

to flank attacks because instead of doing nothing while the enemy hacks away

at their backsides like what happens in a macedonian phalanx, the units in the

back actually turn around

[Gabriel A]

I actually prefer the Hoplite units over the phalanxes, and will recruit them first as mercenaries.