Decision: Ban Alternate Accounts

[RZZZA]

Creating alternate accounts for regular members and civitates should be against the ToS, and should carry a moderately harsh punishment to go along with it for the main account.

The reason being to discourage people from creating alternate accounts for any reason, since we have had so much trouble with alt accounts and since they seem to be created more for negative reasons than positive ones, I'd like to see this enacted into law. Exceptions can be granted for people doing technical work with the forum, but in most situations anything that can be said with an alt account could and should be said with the main one instead, and its about time the ToS started to reflect that sentiment to promote order, stability and honesty amongs the ranks.

[Niccolo Machiavelli]

I don't support mainly due to the fact that this ban would be technically impossible to enforce.
Besides I don't see much of a problem with alt accounts as such - in case they're used for harrassments and flames, the ToS applies anyway and in case they're not bringing negative attention to themselves - fine with me...

[RZZZA]

we've tried it one way, now its time to try it another way. Enforcing this is not what this proposal is about, this is just about taking the symbolic step towards making alt accounts officially illegal.

That alone will make a dent in the trouble, I believe.

[Niccolo Machiavelli]

we've tried it one way, now its time to try it another way. Enforcing this is not what this proposal is about, this is just about taking the symbolic step towards making alt accounts officially illegal.

That alone will make a dent in the trouble, I believe.

I get your point about discouraging their use by banning them, but fail to see your problem with them (doesn't matter though as we obviously don't share the same experiences with them).

However I think as a consequence, harmless alt accounts will be "criminalized" whilst members generating them for abusive behaviour will take better care of not being caught, which is pretty easy...

All in all this would probably result in more trouble than good as even trying to hunt down and punish alt accounts means an increase in moderator work without any real consequence.

[Shaun]

I believe that alt accounts should first have to register with staff, to seek approval. The person who wishes for an alt account would also have to supply a reason for their alt account as well, and if its a **** reason, permission would be denied.
Also, if the alt account was to violate the ToS, it would be instantly perma-banned and the caution go to the original account.

[RZZZA]

Well, no, I dont want to overcomplicate this, I just want to make alt accounts against the ToS. Nice, simple, and easy, no real extra work required.

as it is now, alt accounts are ignored by staff unless they break the ToS. If I had my way, alt accounts would automatically be against the ToS. (could make it for regular members and civitates only, to make room for people who need to make alts for official and technical reasons)

[Tom Paine]

For that, RZZZA, you might want to rephrase your decision;

Creating alternate accounts for regular members and civitatesunauthorised purposes should be against the ToS, and should carry a moderately harsh punishment to go along with it for the main account.

Note, I am neither supporting nor opposing this.

[Lusted]

I disagree with this, unless a duplicate account is used for disrputive reasons, to break the ToS so the other account remains clean, or to bypass a suspension, people should be able to make them.

Or would you rather i chose which of my 2 accounts to have as my active one?

[Tom Paine]

You have 2 accounts for "authorised purposes", so wouldn't be affected by this; strawman argument, Lusted

[Lusted]

Actually i have 3 accounts, 1 made during events in January.

[Tom Paine]

Do you ever use it anyway?

Decisions are not retroactive; one would presume a brief amnesty could be applied, sort of "turning in" one's alternate accounts.

[Lusted]

Do you ever use it anyway?

Well no as it was created out of necessity.

[RZZZA]

Yes Ozy thank you, that rewording is much better and I agree, with the retroactive bit as well...of course punishments would not be levied retroactively...

[Tom Paine]

Exactly. If such an eventuality occurs again all bets are off and the ToS are the second things after the Constitution - sorry, third thing after the Constitution and rule of law - to go out of the window anyway.

Okay RZZZA, another redraft to deal with the non-retroactivity;

Creating alternate accounts for unauthorised purposes should be against the ToS, and should carry a moderately harsh punishment to go along with it for the main account.

There should be a one week period after the adoption of this Decision during which alt accounts may hand themselves in, in which eventuality they shall be assessed based on the reason for their creation; no punishments shall be applied to "main" accounts for the "alts" during this period.

[RZZZA]

how likely is that to happen again though? seriously? were already independant, whom will we become independant again from, ourselves?


Our tyranny must end!

[RZZZA]

There should be a one week period after the adoption of this Decision during which alt accounts may hand themselves in, in which eventuality they shall be assessed based on the reason for their creation; no punishments shall be applied to "main" accounts for the "alts" during this period.

Hmm, I dunno. I think people are unlikely to turn themselves in, and 1 week is probably too short. I dont think we should assess why they were created and allow them to continue to exist, we should just wipe them and tell the person to post with his main, but levy no punishment if the alt account was created retroactive to this proposal.

[makanyane]

Hmm, I dunno. I think people are unlikely to turn themselves in, and 1 week is probably too short. I dont think we should assess why they were created and allow them to continue to exist, we should just wipe them and tell the person to post with his main, but levy no punishment if the alt account was created retroactive to this proposal.

Would just like to mention for the 'n'th time that if you do that based on IP address (which is only real way to judge alt accounts), you would wipe me from forum, as separate person on same IP has older account.....

[Garbarsardar]

I fail to see any merit whatsoever in such a decision. Alt accounts are sometimes used to evade the ToS. And sometimes not.

Ask Phoenix, he knows everything about it.

[RZZZA]

Would just like to mention for the 'n'th time that if you do that based on IP address (which is only real way to judge alt accounts), you would wipe me from forum, as separate person on same IP has older account.....

what seperate person? Does this seperate person post here too?

Well I guess we should assess why they were created then and allow them to keep existing or not based on the assessment, I had no idea cases such as yours existed makanyane.

But wait, isnt sharing an ip address a problem that needs to be addressed seperately? Because from the limited knowledge of computers I have, it seems like everyone should have their own seperate ip address, and not share them with other people...because if one person gets banned then the other does too and thats a problem as I see it.

I fail to see any merit whatsoever in such a decision. Alt accounts are sometimes used to evade the ToS. And sometimes not.

Ask Phoenix, he knows everything about it.

What else are they used for, besides evading the ToS garb? To dupe, confuse, harass and act like a fool? Is that really something thats worth protecting?


I mean you could do all those things with your main, all I ask for is honesty and I hope this proposal wil increase honesty amongst peopel who would otherwise be free to create an alt account for practical jokes and other such irritating nonsense.

[Niccolo Machiavelli]

what seperate person? Does this seperate person post here too?

Well I guess we should assess why they were created then and allow them to keep existing or not based on the assessment, I had no idea cases such as yours existed makanyane.

But wait, isnt sharing an ip address a problem that needs to be addressed seperately? Because from the limited knowledge of computers I have, it seems like everyone should have their own seperate ip address, and not share them with other people...because if one person gets banned then the other does too and thats a problem as I see it.

Not if they use internet connection sharing or the same router - I'm actually posting from two different computers when being at home and they both have the same IP...

What else are they used for, besides evading the ToS garb? To dupe, confuse, harass and act like a fool? Is that really something thats worth protecting?

I have posted this example numerous times, but on another site I used to use an alt as a pseudonym for writing stories as that didn't fit my image of a pretty harsh moderator on that site. I can't see anything wrong with that and never abused it - I've left that site years ago but noone was ever hurt by my alt - neither did anyone ever know it was an alt to this date.