Carthage and Iberia

[Zarax]

Well, in this case just the basic militia that carthage could train

[DimeBagHo]

I've updated the top post again (we lost some changes, and some posts here). I will also be adding some extra AORs just for Carthage, to make up for their slimmed down roster.

[Zarax]

Like I said, carthage should have access to iberian kataphracts too

[DimeBagHo]

Like I said, carthage should have access to iberian kataphracts too

That would involve some complications. The Cataphracts will be a level 4 unit. The Aux. Barracks only go up to level 3. So either Carthage gets the Iberians most elite unit before the Iberians do, or we have to add another level to the Aux. Barracks. That seems a little extreme just for one unit.

We could add the Cataphracts as a rare mercenary unit, or make them bribable, so that Carthage has some opportunity to use them without being able to recruit them.

[Zarax]

The bribable option seems good enough to me, even though you might also want to consider making the aux barracks one level higher than the standard ones by default...

[Zarax]

DBH, I was thinking... Could you change the marines ranged weapon to bow?

[Kara Kolyo]

Is it necessary thet the iberian cataphracts be trained in auxiliary barracs, couldn't you make them recruitable in normal barracks but just in Spain?

[Zarax]

That would be an option too...

[Zarax]

That would be an option too... Alternatively it would be nice for Carthage to have an extra aux barracks level to represent their superiority in employing natives in their army...

[DimeBagHo]

DBH, I was thinking... Could you change the marines ranged weapon to bow?

That would make them too useful. Regular archers are a level 3 unit for most factions, and archers with some melee ability, like Athenian Marines, are often level 4. The Marines are designed to be a "better than nothing unit". Carthage will usually have better options, but in a pinch they can always recruit Marines. So they should be widely availble (which means level 2, no colony required) but not very good (which means no bows, I think).

We could still add a seperate Marine Archers unit, but I think it should be higher level.

Is it necessary thet the iberian cataphracts be trained in auxiliary barracs, couldn't you make them recruitable in normal barracks but just in Spain?

Yes, that could be done. There would be less point though, because Carthage would need a colony to get them, and would have Sacred Band Cavalry available at the same level.

[Zarax]

Sacred band is extremely limited in AOR, iberian cavalry would boost heavy cav availability later ingame...
In two weeks I should have some free time, I'll try to find ways to redesign XGM AOR system in a more accurate way (eg. some factions should have an easier time recruiting natives than others).

[DimeBagHo]

I think we should just lift the AOR requirements for the Sacred Band units. In the next version it will take a lot longer for cities in Africa to get to large and huge size (apart from Carthage itself) and it already takes a long time meet the building requirements for those units in other areas. Even without the AOR limitations, those units will never be widely available.

[Zarax]

I'd rather keep the sacred band requirements as they are historical...

[DimeBagHo]

I'd rather keep the sacred band requirements as they are historical...

Not really. Historically the Sacred Band infantry didn't exist anymore, and they didn't recruit Sacred Band Cavalry or Infantry from New Carthage. But that was because they never had a city that approached Carthage in size or influence. I think if the player develops a huge city and goes through all the trouble of building three colony levels and five barracks levels (that's about 65 turns of building), then they should be able to recruit Sacred Band units.

[Zarax]

Well, yes and no.
The infantry Sacred Band is not mentioned directly but as the temple of Baal still had an armoury and training grounds it is supposed that they fielded an elite citizen infantry unit (the cavalry was from the temple of astarte)

Relatively to Carthago Nova, while historically the sacred band was never recruited there it was still the continental capital of Carthaginian presence in Europe, so it's likely that at least part of the carthaginian elite would reside over there.

An alternative would be to replace the carthage resource with a "phoeni" one, which would allow recruitment of native troops just like the "hellenic" resource does for hellenistic elites.

[DimeBagHo]

Since the addition of colony buildings the hellenic resource has only been used to control recruitment of Greek AORs by non-Greek factions. Greek factions can recruit their elite units anywhere that they have Western natives, or Western colony buildings. Rome is more of a mix. The Praetorians are Italy only, because of their historical use as Guards for the Emperor, but other elite units, like 1st Cohorts, can be recruited anywhere with Western natives, or a sufficiently developed Western colony.

My view is that if the player puts the time and money into developing a high level colony, then that's like developing a regional capital or power center, so they should get their elite units.

[Zarax]

Well, in that case colonies should be more expensive and take longer to build, otherwise we would get only a delayed vanilla effect...

[DimeBagHo]

We could make the build times longer. But as I said before, it already takes 65 turns just to build the colony and barracks buildings needed to recruit a level 5 unit. That's a lot of playing time.

[Zarax]

Well, I'll think about something... Like I said, in two weeks I will have some free time and can give some good tries at rebalancing the AOR...

[removeduser_4563362]

First of all Carthage had had a citizen army up until the 5th century B.C... Then the only military personnel (of Carthaginian birth) war the Scared Band.

P.S. If you want to talk more about the Carthaginians. P.M. me.