primus pater cunobelin erat; sum in patronicium imb39, domi wilpuri; Saint-Germain, MasterAdnin, Pnutmaster, Scorch, Blau&Gruen,
Ferrets54, Honeohvovohaestse, et Pallida Mors in patronicum meum sunt
No one would have known about it hadn't been for the NY Times opening their damn mouths, and no one would be having such a fuss. What mamma don't know won't hurt her.
Well it is all for the defence of terrorism. They wire tap my phone and use it for crimes that DON'T relate to terrorism then it can't be used in court.
Excuse me? You say we have a Big Brother atmosphere and then say that what happens in your country is justified by prevention of terrorism? A terrorist attack was thwarted in London thanks to CCTV cameras, demonstrably so, for god's sakes. Wiretaps had no such clear benefits.
And as to "what momma don't know, don't hurt her"; "momma" didn't know about the 7/7 bombings before they happened, and those sure as **** hurt. Don't you dare accusing the UK of being Big Brother after posting what you have done, kev-o. Seriously.
Last edited by Ozymandias; July 26, 2007 at 05:15 PM.
primus pater cunobelin erat; sum in patronicium imb39, domi wilpuri; Saint-Germain, MasterAdnin, Pnutmaster, Scorch, Blau&Gruen,
Ferrets54, Honeohvovohaestse, et Pallida Mors in patronicum meum sunt
The incompetent immoral left at least was able to predict exactly what is happening. As did the US security and intelligence services, their predictions were increased danger of terror over the whole world, increased danger of proliferation etc. If you want to reduce risks, why go to war if your own intelligence community tells you it will increase them? Answer: Priorities lie elsewhere. Underground. Hint hint.
Anyone who thinks all of this is to help Iraqis is beyond saving. Morality. Sure.
Ahha! You finally bring up my point, the thwarted terrorist attacks in London. Remember this:
Then stop pretending anything else. Stop trying to enforce law. Oh, and remember that your existence is not even beginning to come under threat...
Seems England is under threat and we Americans are doing the most in the war against terror.
....You are using them to make a political point, and yet failing? The UK and US are involved in the same nations, and the same messes, with the UK having considerably greater success overall. The UK has also thwarted publicly more terrorist attacks and put more terrorists on trial than the US. So, who is succeeding more? The UK, apparently. Please. Don't try and rewrite the facts.
primus pater cunobelin erat; sum in patronicium imb39, domi wilpuri; Saint-Germain, MasterAdnin, Pnutmaster, Scorch, Blau&Gruen,
Ferrets54, Honeohvovohaestse, et Pallida Mors in patronicum meum sunt
Stupid to use a famous commander of conventional warfare to reason a war of unconventional warfare.
The interesting thing is that Paetreus must be the first commander in Iraq who builds his strategy on the necessities of the asymmetrical warfare going on there, problem is it might be too late. I think he said himself that they cannot win, only stave off defeat until other factors make peace possible. The worrisome thing is however that his timetable is already off by months (Bagdad was meant to be secure by now, they are still fighting and bombing there though).
It's not really in the hands of the US anymore. If the Iraqis (aka the radicals among them) want a civil war and not national reconciliation then there will be zilch they can do about it other than duck and cover.
"Sebaceans once had a god called Djancaz-Bru. Six worlds prayed to her. They built her temples, conquered planets. And yet one day she rose up and destroyed all six worlds. And when the last warrior was dying, he said, 'We gave you everything, why did you destroy us?' And she looked down upon him and she whispered, 'Because I can.' "
Mangalore Design
I can hardly believe kev-o complaining about British CCTV as some sort of Orwellian conspiracy in one post then complaining that there's still some remnant of a free press in his country in the next. Astonishing.
All thanks to Blair, with the aid of Reid, Clarke, and oh look Brown. hell, Brown presided over - in the first days of his leadership - a nation in crisis over the terrorist attempted attacks. We have the better record. We have the record with less illegality. And you have the gall to jointly accuse us of being Big Brother and justify illegal espionage on private citizens by your government in the name of counter-terrorism?
primus pater cunobelin erat; sum in patronicium imb39, domi wilpuri; Saint-Germain, MasterAdnin, Pnutmaster, Scorch, Blau&Gruen,
Ferrets54, Honeohvovohaestse, et Pallida Mors in patronicum meum sunt
You do realize what the expresion "left and right" means right?And we all know they've been taking photos of prisoners in seriously compromising positions left and right
I'm aware of one instance of pictures being taken like that. Hardly U.S. Policy.
Show me the pictures.or flying people off to other countries to torture them...
I don't need justification for killing Terrorists. and you didn't address my point at all, you just side stepped it entirely. Again, why wage a clean pure war against someone who will not do the same?Explain something for me, would you? You accuse the insurgents of abrogating human rights and so on, and this is your justification for killing them. What at this point makes you any better at all?
How much of the triangle of death have you controlled. Exactly how much and how long.And as to the matter of regions the British were in being more peaceful - British and American forces have on various occasions swapped regions. The British regions have become more peaceful, the American less so.
...and when Hitler received his Luftwaffles, he said "where is mein kampflimentary coffee?"
@ Ozy
Hey wasn't cctv installed BEFORE big terrorist plots, like say in 1998.
*cue Twilight Zone music*
And what amazes me is how socialists like yourself actually put up with this.
Those here would scream outright here in this country.
Its not just Abu Ghraib, there have been instances in Afghanistan too.
Extraordinary rendition. Seriously.Show me the pictures.
Because you are not them. Because the reason you are fighting this war is to beat them and uphold the ideals they deny. because you cannot defend something by sacrificing it.I don't need justification for killing Terrorists. and you didn't address my point at all, you just side stepped it entirely. Again, why wage a clean pure war against someone who will not do the same?
Off the top of my head no idea.How much of the triangle of death have you controlled. Exactly how much and how long.
Its installed by businesses to prevent theft. Oh, and as for it being installed before big terrorist plots, like say in 1998... 1998 was the very year the IRA's long campaign reached Manchester, blowing up its centre. Before then, places like Canary Wharf had been bombed. please, sir.Originally Posted by kev-o
primus pater cunobelin erat; sum in patronicium imb39, domi wilpuri; Saint-Germain, MasterAdnin, Pnutmaster, Scorch, Blau&Gruen,
Ferrets54, Honeohvovohaestse, et Pallida Mors in patronicum meum sunt
Kev, shopkeepers have a right to protect their property. I'm surprised a capitalist like yourself is trying to open up businesses to theives and vandals.
Thank you. Oh thank you. I applaud the leadership in the war on terror and dismiss the fact that, as a Londoner, I had to endure some terrible campaigns. I strongly suggest you consider your words more carefully. America has no right to preach to the UK over terrorism and how we deal with it. We were punching well above our weight in the Iraq war - good grief, what a travesty that was...
I, of course, also suspect the Nicaraguans also applaud America's brave stance as the Leaders of the Free World.
That image brings a tear to my eye...
Holy ****! Ozy was right, but would ya look at that: there are donzens of other countries that do it too! And lookie here, Britain has been allegedly sited as doing it. Oh but that doesn't mean it was real, just like America's wire tapping isn't real.
And, to go a ways back, had America lost the Revolution there would have been a lot of short drops and sudden stops, thanks to Britain.
One man's terrorist is another man's patriot, they say.
But when the man who said the other guy is terrorist wins the fight, the terrorist....well lets look at history.
@Ferrets
That is why shop keepers got guns. And they have tv security too. But why wait for the cops and the thief is gone when all you can do is shoot the guy in the leg and he isn't going nowhere.
Last edited by kev-o; July 26, 2007 at 05:49 PM.
God will make a way,
Where there seems to be no way
He fights in wars, Herr Bush said it,
He will make a way for me
He will be my guide
Blasting Terror on its hide,
With blood and gore for each new day
He will make a way, He will make a way.
Heheheheh...
I remember this song in my Presbyterian years.
I did not make too much changes to the lyrics, I hope.
Sing along if you want God to help Iraq.
Older guy on TWC.
Done with National Service. NOT patriotic. MORE realist. Just gimme cash.
Dishing out cheap shots since 2006.
......and? Is it any worse than beating the hell out of Iraqi kids in the streets. No, that's strictly a British practice, so it's A-OK.Its not just Abu Ghraib, there have been instances in Afghanistan too.
'The U.S. and suspected CIA "black sites"' - taken from your own source...which happens to be Wikipedia...seriously.Extraordinary rendition. Seriously.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Did I suggest we start chopping off heads? No, we are not them, and we do not act like them. Unfortunately the "international rules of war" as so restrictive, you can't fart in Iraq without being cited by watchdogs for chemical attacks.Because you are not them. Because the reason you are fighting this war is to beat them and uphold the ideals they deny. because you cannot defend something by sacrificing it.
...and when Hitler received his Luftwaffles, he said "where is mein kampflimentary coffee?"
And yet, kev-o, you still can't address the issue of the UK being better at dealing with terrorism, having dealt with it for longer, and having dealt with the US financing terrorists, or at the minimum Americans financing terrorist. Furthermore, we are the ones far more effective at so doing in the present, whilst acting within the rule of law, which we are also keeping to a greater extent. Hey look... And didn't Bush admit to the whole wiretapping thing and order it stopped? Erm... yeah... not real... just like extraordinary rendition... huh.
Oh, well. He who would sacrifice liberty for security deserves neither.
No, its not. But then, we discipline our troops rather severely for it when we know about it, and I fully support that.
You might like to look at the investigations section...'The U.S. and suspected CIA "black sites"' - taken from your own source...which happens to be Wikipedia...seriously.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Whereas apparently you can shoot civilians. Fallujah ring a bell?Did I suggest we start chopping off heads? No, we are not them, and we do not act like them. Unfortunately the "international rules of war" as so restrictive, you can't fart in Iraq without being cited by watchdogs for chemical attacks.
Last edited by Ozymandias; July 26, 2007 at 05:53 PM.
primus pater cunobelin erat; sum in patronicium imb39, domi wilpuri; Saint-Germain, MasterAdnin, Pnutmaster, Scorch, Blau&Gruen,
Ferrets54, Honeohvovohaestse, et Pallida Mors in patronicum meum sunt