Income Tax

**Exidus Maximus** · July 23, 2007, 11:37 PM

http://www.spiderednews.com/BushAdmi...htm?vid=122227

thoughts?

**Rhinosaur** · July 24, 2007, 01:41 AM

I am not spending nearly 2 hours watching this right now. If you want some discussion I'd recommend excerpts or quotes to whet our appetite. Give me something to work with please.

**Exidus Maximus** · July 24, 2007, 01:55 AM

here are some things i learned about the president's new "Executive privileges":

1. Bush has signed executive orders giving him sole authority to impose martial law, and suspend habeas corpus. This gives him the DICTATORIAL POWER over the people, without ANY checks and balances.

This means the government can jail you for life WITHOUT A TRIAL, AND WITHOUT A LAWYER... and not have to charge you with a crime!

2. EXECUTIVE ORDER #10999 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation.
3. EXECUTIVE ORDER #11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.
4. EXECUTIVE ORDER #11921 Provides that the President can declare a state of emergency that is not defined and Congress cannot review the action for six months.
5. SENATE BILL #1873 allows the government to vaccinate you with untested vaccines against your will.
6. The FDA says Americans do not have the right to know which foods are genetically modified.
7. Congressman Sensenbrenner's Bill (HR 1528) requires you to spy on your neighbors, including wearing a wire. Refusal would be punishable by a mandatory prison sentence of at least 2 years.

THE PATRIOT ACT:
-Secret FBI and police searches of your home and office.
-Secret government wiretaps on your phone, computer and/or Internet activity.
- Secret investigations of your bank records, credit cards and other financial records.
-Secret investigations of your library and book activities.
-Secret examination of your medical, travel and business records.
-The freezing of funds and assets without prior notice OR appeal.
-The creation of secret "watch lists" that ban those named from air and other travel.

"The constitution is just a goddamn piece of paper"
-George W. Bush Nov. 2005

btw, if you realize more than half of those where instituted in Nazi Germany... and if thats not bad enough the government wants a national ID card that must be used to pass ALL state borders, and checkpoints... you would also not be allowed to open a bank account, board a plane, ride a train, bus, or boat... or enter federal buildings. This card will have anything from your finger prints, to retinal info, to blood type, picture ID, and even an RFID (Radio Frequency Identification) chip!

*Heavy German accent* "Let me see your papers! let me see them Schwine! these papers are 3 weeks expired! off to the camps for you!"

man, i love this country... but i hate where its going...

and if you don't believe me, look it up. go to the library, scan Google, or hell... CALL OR EMAIL A MEMBER OF GOVERNMENT.

and while ur at it ask WHY these things must be done

http://www.spiderednews.com/BushAdmi...htm?vid=122227

watch it. it has some good stuff.

most of my info is from released government info, the net, books, and conversation with some VERY connected people who meet with governemtn officials quite a bit and even stand in on hearings and many government deliberations. i wont say names tho.

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Also, on the income tax... there is NO law stating that you must pay a tax on your labor or wages. and if they say you have to pay or you go to jail, tell them to give PROOF in writing that you are violating an actual law. the Income tax was NEVER properly ratified, and EVER SINGLE TIME the IRS tries to get the power to tax the ppl from the Supreme Court, they are DENIED. the Supreme court CLEARLY states that there is no law available that says the IRS or even the government can tax YOUR WAGES.

the 16th amendment says they can tax Profits. the 16th amendment says they can LEGALLY tax corporations and companies. NOT individuals. the sum of the income tax both legal and illegal, is the EXACT amount the military gets alloted to it each year now to spend... 273 billion is Legal from corporate income tax, 978 BILLION is illegal and is taxed from the people who slave away day and night to still be buried in debt.

in 2001 or so, the US military had 1.1 TRILLION dollars of "Misplaced Adjustments"... that is (in other words) saying 1.1 trillion dollars WENT MISSING in 1 year. in 2002 it was something like 1.7 to 2.1 TRILLION. it has since gone up ever year... and there is NO sign of it anywhere...

**Rhinosaur** · July 24, 2007, 02:05 AM

The income tax thing is a bit out of my range. The sixteenth amendment, despite some claims against it's legitimacy, has stood for 90 some odd years and allows for taxes to be levied on income. The Bush stuff is way bad imo and I believe that it sets the precedent for either Bush or one of his successors to claim dictatorial powers, like that new order allowing for anyone not going along with the Iraq policy to have their assets seized by the States Dept or the DoD. Bad news for us Americans.

**Exidus Maximus** · July 24, 2007, 02:16 AM

yes, they can levy taxes that are either direct, or indirect. direct would be when u purchase something like gas, and that tax goes to pay for the highways, or when u pay property taxes (that goes to edumucation.

)

HOWEVER. ALL taxes that are DIRECT must be spread equally among the people the country or else its unconstitutional. paying to EARN money is NOWHERE in the constitution. Ill get the link tomorrow when i wake up about the hearing where th IRS went all the way to the supreme court trying to defend its legalitty... the Supreme Court then stated: "The 16th Amendment does not allow for any new forms of taxes directly to the American people, or on the money they earn." (or roughly that idea)...

to this day, if u call the IRS and ask to see the law, 1 (or more) of 3 things will happen: 1. you will be audited. 2. you will be arrested and your property seized. or 3. you will be ignored and hung up on.

if you DON'T fill out your tax forms right, you CANT go to jail. you CANNOT be imprisoned for things where you fill our wrong and thus you are guilty. that violates the 5th amendment. you cannot convict yourself. you must be convicted in a court of law... but thats where the IRS flourishes. the lower courts somehow DO NOT follow the supreme court's ruling that the income tax is unconstitutional and CANNOT be enforced... and indeed its enforced. so all those ppl who get arrested for tax evasion are getting arrested for NOTHING. its not a crime to not pay your income tax!

hell, most IRS agents dont pay their income tax cuz they know it doesn't exist. i know 14 and none pay, and the one who asked his boss if it did exist was TOLD TO RESIGN LATER THAT WEEK! what the ****!

btw, he was also audited, and thrown in jail for 2 years on tax evasion charges... he had EVERYTHING "seized" and now lives in a house i rented to him for 100 bucks a months... its sad how they took him out that hard.

**Rhinosaur** · July 24, 2007, 02:19 AM

So.... This thread is all about the income tax?

**Exidus Maximus** · July 24, 2007, 02:20 AM

and stuff that is messed up with the way the government is run... yes...

i just wanted to know people opinions on the issue and see what they have to say about it.

**Rhinosaur** · July 24, 2007, 02:30 AM

the income tax is NOT the devil incarnate, and has not adversely affected me personally, even though I haven't gotten a refund since I was 19. I pay, but I realize that as an adult that I want to be a member of a civilized society, and that taxes must be raised to pay for the things that a civilized society requires.

**DariusEG** · July 24, 2007, 07:41 AM

I pay, but I realize that as an adult that I want to be a member of a civilized society, and that taxes must be raised to pay for the things that a civilized society requires.

When we have taxes that fund billion dollar wars we do not live in a civilized society. A civilized society hardly exists.

**Exidus Maximus** · July 24, 2007, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by DariusEG

When we have taxes that fund billion dollar wars we do not live in a civilized society. A civilized society hardly exists.

oh so true.

the income tax doesn't pay ANYTHING other than the military and government side jobs. EVERYTHING you expect it to pay for (education, highways, police, and the like) are all paid for by local taxes. the income tax isn't needed for the gov. to survive. its just some extra money for them to play with at the end of the day. and its unconstitutional.

**Kiljan Arslan** · July 24, 2007, 11:29 AM

Uh the income tax also exists for things like social security, welfare, the FDA, the Department of Education, Unenployment, and many other programs.

**Exidus Maximus** · July 24, 2007, 01:42 PM

but u see, that CANT be true. look at the U.S. military budget and its EXACTLY the income tax added up. and if the income tax pays for all that extra stuff, then why before 1913 did we do just fine without it? since its "inception" the cost to live is FAR out pacing the means by which we can afford to live.

that leads me to another thing: the Federal Reserve isnt actually part of the Federal Government. its led and owned by all the major banking institutions of America. don't believe me? look it up. the U.S. Treasury is part of the fed. Gvt... right now for ever dollar the government spends or issues, they pay the federal reserve interest and the amount they took out originally. so, essentially, they pay MORE than if they made it themselves (which is what the constitution says they have the power to)...

the head of the federal reserve is chosen from a list of bankers generated by a council of of the heads of banking firms in the U.S. the Pres of the U.S. then picks from that list whom will lead... so essentially the guy who goes into power is gonna be a banker, and will look to not make the government nor the people money, but the banks.

the average cost of a BRAND NEW HOME in 1957 was $20,000... the Average income was $4,454.

in 2001- 2004 the average income FELL 2.3%, (was +17.4%per year when Bill Clinton was in the white house. not saying he did a good job, just wanted to point out how bad it's gotten) isnt recovering... it settled at $70,700... but that takes into account the MILLIONAIRES and BILLIONAIRES who literally can make millions in a month. i honestly can say i dont know many people who make that amount by actually WORKING for a living. so im gonna say without the rich people added in its gonna probably settle at about... idk, 40k? MAYBE 50k? and thats WITH expensive college, and working ever day of your life...

and the average housing cost was like $300,000 EASY! hell, some places couldn't get below $500k- $600k... and that is in most major cities.

1957- 2004: income: + 798%
1957- 2004: cost of a new home: +1,900%

seems kinda outta whack right?

well, here is how calculated percentage of increase:

new - old = difference.

difference/ old = x. take x and multiply that vy 100 and u get your percentage of increase or decrease.

so, here is the income:
40,000 - 4,454= 35,546 / 4,454= 7.98 x 100 = +798%

housing:
400,000 - 20,000- 380,000/ 20,000= 19 x 100 = +1,900%

if the house was $300,000 ($264,540 was cost of average single family home based on government survey of 20,000 people)
300,000- 20,000= 280,000/ 20,000= 14 x 100= +1,400%

this graph shows the slip of the buying power of the U.S. dollar. I think we are in for one hell of a **** storm here in another decade or 2 of this continues... the % of inflation is actually rising faster than the average income increase! lol, thats just dumb... stop printing money! there is way too much U.S. money circulation to justify printing out billions and billions of it a year.

also, does anyone know what the dollar bill (the paper) is supposed to be worth? Gold! your supposed to be able to get gold for it if you ask. know who hold Fort Knox as a "down payment" of sorts on interest? the Federal reserve. the treasury let them take it as a sign that the US gov will pay them back. whats that mean ladies and gents? it means the US economy has NO real source of wealth other than these pieces of paper... no gold, no silver, cuz its all FUBARed!

**Rush Limbaugh** · July 24, 2007, 11:44 PM

Income tax is unconstitutional. Just because the government has trampled on the constitution does not mean we have to accept it. Id vote for any body here over those running for office just to teach them a lesson.

**Kiljan Arslan** · July 25, 2007, 02:33 AM

It is constitutional now because an amendement was made to thew constitution if you want to ammend the constitution and get rid of it all power to you however that will take congressional approval, and 3/4ths of states to approves.

**Exidus Maximus** · July 25, 2007, 02:51 AM

no, the income tax as applied to INDIVIDUALS is NOT in that amendment. that amendment applies to CORPORATION. big difference.

call the IRS and ask to have them fax or email you a copy of their law that states you, as an individual must pay income tax on your labor. there isnt one. plain and simple.

**Kiljan Arslan** · July 25, 2007, 02:53 AM

Well considering that corperations are considered a person. Thats why we can also be taxed and whats your problem with paying your share to your country?