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    Default Taiwan Defies U.S., Seeks U.N. Membership Under Debated Name

    Taiwan Defies U.S., Seeks U.N. Membership Under Debated Name

    By Edward Cody
    Washington Post Foreign Service
    Saturday, July 21, 2007; Page A09


    BEIJING, July 21 -- Brushing aside warnings from the Bush administration, the Taiwanese government of President Chen Shui-bian announced Friday that it has applied for U.N. membership under the name Taiwan.
    Chen's move, the latest tactic in a long campaign to promote Taiwan's sovereignty, drew an immediate condemnation from mainland China, which has vowed to use force if necessary to prevent the self-ruled island from acquiring formal independence.

    "We resolutely oppose it and will keep a close eye on development of the issue," the Chinese Foreign Ministry said in a statement relayed by the official New China News Agency. "The Taiwan authorities' attempt to split China absolutely will not succeed."
    The decision by Chen to apply for U.N. membership under the name Taiwan seemed destined to have little practical effect. The island, which lies 100 miles off mainland China's southern rim, has failed repeatedly to gain admittance under its current official name, Republic of China, because the U.N. seat for China has belonged to the mainland since 1971.
    But the symbolic power of Chen's gesture seemed likely to raise tensions in the Taiwan Strait. China has never recognized Taiwan as an independent country and has pledged to return the island to Beijing's rule ever since Chiang Kai-shek fled there with his Nationalist forces in 1949.
    In addition, the application seemed likely to irritate officials in the Bush administration, who have been trying to persuade Chen to avoid provocative moves at a time when Washington is preoccupied with the war in Iraq. The United States, Taiwan's chief ally, has promised to help defend it against any use of force by mainland China but has vigorously discouraged Chen from taking steps to disrupt the status quo.
    In exchanges among China, the United States and Taiwan, altering the island's official name has been defined as a change in the status quo.
    But Chen Chi-mai, deputy secretary general of President Chen's office, indicated that the president was in no mood to hold back to avoid offending China or irritating Washington as he heads toward the end of his second four-year term in May. He portrayed the government's independence policy in its starkest terms:
    "Deputy Secretary General Chen emphasized that Taiwan is a sovereign, independent country," said a statement from the president's office. "Neither Taiwan nor China is subject to the other's jurisdiction. Moreover, Taiwan has never been part of China. This is the status quo."
    The deputy secretary said the formal application was handed to U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki Moon on Thursday in New York, according to the statement. He said President Chen made the decision to go forward because it represented the will of Taiwan's 23 million inhabitants. A U.N. official in New York confirmed Ban had received the application but said it probably will go nowhere.
    The statement made no mention of plans for a referendum on the issue in the spring, a step that President Chen in a recent interview depicted as a necessary exercise in democracy. Instead, the communique said, the president decided to go ahead now because earlier applications under the name Republic of China had proved fruitless and "have not been accorded the international attention they deserve."
    Staff writer Colum Lynch at the United Nations contributed to this report.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072002541.html

    The Chinese are definitely not gonna like this

    Why would the Taiwanese president do this?
    Herman Göring (Field Marshall General)

    "Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. ...Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Taiwan Defies U.S., Seeks U.N. Membership Under Debated Name

    He knows war is almost inevitable between the US and China. We are probably getting towards the end of the time when the US can dfeat China decisively, so he's trying to force their hand

  3. #3
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    Default Re: Taiwan Defies U.S., Seeks U.N. Membership Under Debated Name

    Quote Originally Posted by The Super Pope View Post
    He knows war is almost inevitable between the US and China. We are probably getting towards the end of the time when the US can dfeat China decisively, so he's trying to force their hand
    you could not be more wrong. It would be horrible for both sides. The US gets ultra cheap goods, and Chinese markets are booming. Neither would benefit from war.

    Quote Originally Posted by SigniferOne
    Americans died to bring a free China to power, not some power-crazed loony like Mao, who killed more Chinese than the Japanese ever imagined. That's why Americans rightly have a lot to say about Taiwan, and sephodwyrm's Taiwanese passport matters little.
    please, Americans died to get back at the Japanese, not to "liberate" the subjects of the Japanese empire.
    Last edited by Last Roman; July 23, 2007 at 04:54 PM.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Taiwan Defies U.S., Seeks U.N. Membership Under Debated Name

    It's a power play. Self-determination is still a powerful feeling in today's world, as evidenced by the Palestine-Israel conflict. So, what better way to truly achieve independence by going through official international channels and potentially get invaded by China? If China does invade, it gains the ire of the entire world, and you can betcha that a blockade and embargo would ensue, quickly ruining the fragile Chinese economy.

    Also, China would be forced to retreat, and so two things would happen in the end:

    1. Taiwan independent from China
    2. China has a large black mark on record, as well a a severe economic shock that would take a while to recover from since much of the income over the following years would have to be used to repair the country itself.
    "...most cases of death were mild to moderate..."

  5. #5

    Default Re: Taiwan Defies U.S., Seeks U.N. Membership Under Debated Name

    china doesnt have the logisitics to support a full scale war against the US--- they will let taiwan go even though they threaten.

    if not we may all be finished ;o

  6. #6

    Default Re: Taiwan Defies U.S., Seeks U.N. Membership Under Debated Name

    I don't think it is any of the United State's business whether anything happens other there. I'm sick of getting into some other country's affairs, we have enough the way it is now, so let them deal with it themselves.
    "Give me the storm and stress of thought and action rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith.
    Banish me from Eden when you will but first let me eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge."

    — Robert G. Ingersoll

  7. #7

    Default Re: Taiwan Defies U.S., Seeks U.N. Membership Under Debated Name

    Whats the deal, why does China care so much about exereting influence over taiwan? Its not as if Taiwan is any threat to them...


    What about popular sovereignty?

  8. #8

    Default Re: Taiwan Defies U.S., Seeks U.N. Membership Under Debated Name

    Quote Originally Posted by -BulletproofTurban- View Post
    Whats the deal, why does China care so much about exereting influence over taiwan?

    its all about pride, if china allow taiwan to declare itself independence or something similarthey will lose face, an insult to the communist government,
    i strongly want taiwan to become part of china,
    also, as long as taiwan existed, it will be a threat to the mainland government, which is a communist country,

  9. #9

    Default Re: Taiwan Defies U.S., Seeks U.N. Membership Under Debated Name

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Life View Post
    its all about pride, if china allow taiwan to declare itself independence or something similarthey will lose face, an insult to the communist government,
    i strongly want taiwan to become part of china,
    also, as long as taiwan existed, it will be a threat to the mainland government, which is a communist country,
    I dont see any real threat, only a political and symbolic threat, which is really no reason to go to war...at all...at....all...

    This isnt a real problem, this is a fake problem. Taiwan isnt threatening China, China is threatening Taiwan for no other reason than that they oppose popular soverignty, so they wish to invade and occupy a sovereign nation.

    Boo China, I say. China has enough land, let Taiwan be.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Taiwan Defies U.S., Seeks U.N. Membership Under Debated Name

    Quote Originally Posted by -BulletproofTurban- View Post
    I dont see any real threat, only a political and symbolic threat, which is really no reason to go to war...at all...at....all...

    This isnt a real problem, this is a fake problem. Taiwan isnt threatening China, China is threatening Taiwan for no other reason than that they oppose popular soverignty, so they wish to invade and occupy a sovereign nation.

    Boo China, I say. China has enough land, let Taiwan be.
    yea a political and symbolic threat,
    china is not saying it will invade taiwan,it saying only if taiwan declare itself independence, will they use necessary forces
    anyways, taiwan had the chance to defeat china 58 years ago, but because they were too corrupted, they lost the war,
    they should just let china occupied them, like hong kong right now
    part of china but still retain it sovereignty

  11. #11
    Freddie's Avatar The Voice of Reason
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    Default Re: Taiwan Defies U.S., Seeks U.N. Membership Under Debated Name

    Quote Originally Posted by -BulletproofTurban- View Post
    Whats the deal, why does China care so much about exereting influence over taiwan? Its not as if Taiwan is any threat to them...


    What about popular sovereignty?
    Because like most communist regimes they are insecure about there believes.

  12. #12
    Kiljan Arslan's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Taiwan Defies U.S., Seeks U.N. Membership Under Debated Name

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddie View Post
    Because like most communist regimes they are insecure about there believes.
    Quite true. I say its Taiwans choice not Chinas if they want to be an idependent nation. ANd we have every right to help them along.
    according to exarch I am like
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    sure, the way fred phelps finds christianity too optimistic?

    Simple truths
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    btw having a sig telling people not to report you is hilarious.

  13. #13
    Chevalier IX's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Taiwan Defies U.S., Seeks U.N. Membership Under Debated Name

    And yet again I am left to wonder as i have so many times before in the history of this nation...what does taiwans independace have to do with us....this struggle is none of our affair and yet again our government is willing to offer up the lives of our folk for a battle that has nothing to with the nation or them as individuals....I feel sorry for the wasted lives of our armes forces...

  14. #14
    Condell's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Taiwan Defies U.S., Seeks U.N. Membership Under Debated Name

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikusa IX View Post
    And yet again I am left to wonder as i have so many times before in the history of this nation...what does taiwans independace have to do with us....this struggle is none of our affair and yet again our government is willing to offer up the lives of our folk for a battle that has nothing to with the nation or them as individuals....I feel sorry for the wasted lives of our armes forces...
    havent you heard bro

    america.. **** yeah, we are here to save the world

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    Default Re: Taiwan Defies U.S., Seeks U.N. Membership Under Debated Name

    I can't see why Taiwan can't just merge with big brother. I mean Hong Kong seems to be doing fine.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Taiwan Defies U.S., Seeks U.N. Membership Under Debated Name

    different politics and national pride, I guess. Taiwan is a peaceful democracy, I think, While china is just oppresive and threatening.

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    Default Re: Taiwan Defies U.S., Seeks U.N. Membership Under Debated Name

    Quote Originally Posted by -BulletproofTurban- View Post
    different politics and national pride, I guess. Taiwan is a peaceful democracy, I think, While china is just oppresive and threatening.


    Sure. But Hong Kong got to keep its political process intact after the merger. It seems the best idea to cut a deal with Beijing and become sort sort of a protectorate. Seems economically beneficial too.

    Mind you I'm totally ignorant about the more finer details of this conundrum.

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    Eat Meat Whale Meat
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    Default Re: Taiwan Defies U.S., Seeks U.N. Membership Under Debated Name

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Hawk View Post
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...072002541.html

    The Chinese are definitely not gonna like this

    Why would the Taiwanese president do this?
    AFAIK the balance in Taiwan is shifting towards unification with the mainland, so Chen is trying to get Taiwanese independence while he still has majority support. Beijing sees reunification as inevitable, but is as yet not in any hurry to force the process, so the status quo is acceptable to them, believing that the Taiwanese will voluntarily rejoin China at some point.

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    Duke_of_Bavaria's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Taiwan Defies U.S., Seeks U.N. Membership Under Debated Name

    ****ing commies... Go Republic of China! Death to the People's Republic!

    Kustjägarsoldat, A-dyk #31 Nordenskiöld - KJ för alltid!



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    Default Re: Taiwan Defies U.S., Seeks U.N. Membership Under Debated Name

    Wow. I guess the enlightenment missed a few, eh?

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